Is your car stalling upon starting?

[Thameth]

Originally Posted by wildone3c

same here. Almost everyday when my mini has been sitting overnight and I go to start it sometimes it will turn over and over for almost 8-10 seconds before it starts, and when it does, it will sound rough for a couple of seconds. I will be at an event at my dealer this saturday so I will speak with them then and see if they have heard anything about it.

Oh boy, looks like this point it going to be hard to get accross.....

[kaelaria]

let it go...some people just can't read

[CaravanFan]

my 03 manual said 91 which is not sold at any BP, Shell, Speedway or Texaco anywhere near Chicago. That is a fact.

[kaelaria]

And you don't have enough common sense to understand that is a MINIMUM requirement?

[NealW]

I reported earlier in the thread that I have the problem of the idle speed dropping and the engine stumbling 10 to 15 seconds after a successful cold start. The problem began as the weather got warmer this spring. I live in a small town with limited options on name brand gasoline and being a creature of habit I have purchased only Shell since bringing my MINI home. A couple of days ago, my wife bought me a tank of Marathon. I now have 8 cold starts with no strange idle speed drops. Now, I know Marathon is not a universal fix, because OKMini in Ohio reported the problem and Marathon was one of his brands.

These cars should run with any in spec gasoline, but if the problem annoys you (it does me), you might want to experiment.

[pcnorton]

Originally Posted by Thameth

Oh boy, looks like this point it going to be hard to get accross.....

I think its the same problem, just a more extreme version. Mine starts and then dies the first start up as if it runs out of fuel.

Those that it wont start on the first time seems to have the same fuel problem, no fuel then after cranking again the fuel get there.



If you think they are unrelated, It would seem that you would know what the problem is or have your theory, what do you think it is?

Paul

[Thameth]

Originally Posted by pcnorton

I think its the same problem, just a more extreme version. Mine starts and then dies the first start up as if it runs out of fuel.

Those that it wont start on the first time seems to have the same fuel problem, no fuel then after cranking again the fuel get there.



If you think they are unrelated, It would seem that you would know what the problem is or have your theory, what do you think it is?

Paul

Now thats a different story, before you had just said it didn't start on the first try and always had to be started twice. You didn't say that it would start first try most times and then stumble to a stall.

Not starting on the first try seems to be a more extreme case that only happens to a much smaller percentage of people.

[driverphil]

No problems with our '04 Cooper. We run either premium or mid-grade depending on price and mood :smile:

[Thameth]

Originally Posted by driverphil

No problems with our '04 Cooper. We run either premium or mid-grade depending on price and mood :smile:

I'm really surprised at how many people don't run the Factory recommended Premium fuel.....

[stylin99]

Thank god I did a search on my idle problems and found this thread!

Same problem here. Car was fine when I bought it, now recently it's got a tough time idleing on cold starts. I counted about 20-25 seconds that it runs fine after you turn the key, then it goes into something similar to an open loop mode and gets real choppy, almost cuts off, and then comes back to life. It does it 2-3 times before it clears up. I always warm my car up at least 30 seconds before pulling out, so I see it do it every morning.

Can someone explain in depth the theory about the "summer gas"? I've never heard of such a problem with an ECU. What ingredient changes in summer that would cause this? It's annoying... embarassing... and worrisome. Makes me wonder if any long term effects can occur from starting up cold like this (lean cylinders, poor air/fuel ratios, etc)

[kaelaria]

Originally Posted by Thameth

I'm really surprised at how many people don't run the Factory recommended Premium fuel.....

Some people are unable to comprehend an owners manual, some think the world is full of conspiricies and the requirement is BS, some think they know more than the factory.

[Fidge]

05 MCS picked up on March 17. I have this problem also. I have only used HESS 93 Octane. Recently in dealer for service (Rear brake lights would stay on after car was shut off) was told there was a service bulletin about the brake light problem. I brought it in and they supposedly fixed it. I also asked them to check the car since I had a problem with cold starts. Car even stalled once, but usually just stumbles. Service Advisor stated nothing wrong, "it's a MINI"

[Thameth]

Originally Posted by stylin99

Thank god I did a search on my idle problems and found this thread!

Same problem here. Car was fine when I bought it, now recently it's got a tough time idleing on cold starts. I counted about 20-25 seconds that it runs fine after you turn the key, then it goes into something similar to an open loop mode and gets real choppy, almost cuts off, and then comes back to life. It does it 2-3 times before it clears up. I always warm my car up at least 30 seconds before pulling out, so I see it do it every morning.

Can someone explain in depth the theory about the "summer gas"? I've never heard of such a problem with an ECU. What ingredient changes in summer that would cause this? It's annoying... embarassing... and worrisome. Makes me wonder if any long term effects can occur from starting up cold like this (lean cylinders, poor air/fuel ratios, etc)

Another thing thats in your manual, it says to never "warm up" the car. It specifically says to get going as soon as you turn it on, that the MINI does not need warming up and doesn't like it.

[NealW]

Originally Posted by stylin99

What ingredient changes in summer that would cause this? It's annoying... embarassing... and worrisome. Makes me wonder if any long term effects can occur from starting up cold like this (lean cylinders, poor air/fuel ratios, etc)

I'm not an expert on gasoline. (Maybe expert will speak up and educate us both.) But gasoline is a witch's brew of hydrocarbons. As the weather gets warmer, they typically reduce the concentration of the some of the lower molecular weight hydrocarbons. This reduces the vapor pressure. I think they used to make this shift to prevent vapor lock. Now they do it to meet some type of emissions requirement.

Now, we just need someone to explain why MINIs can't idle with this low vapor pressure fuel.

[FraserBonnett]

I noticed this last summer with my '02 MCS, and it's happening a lot right now. I mentioned it last visit to the Service Advisor, and he recommended using a LOWER octane gas.

I think I'll live with the two start attempts thank you. BTW, Techron seems to help cut it down to only cold starts that last overnight or longer.

[kaelaria]

Originally Posted by FraserBonnett

I noticed this last summer with my '02 MCS, and it's happening a lot right now. I mentioned it last visit to the Service Advisor, and he recommended using a LOWER octane gas.

Then he's a complete idiot like most dealer people are.

[dansmini]

Originally Posted by FraserBonnett

I noticed this last summer with my '02 MCS, and it's happening a lot right now. I mentioned it last visit to the Service Advisor, and he recommended using a LOWER octane gas.

My dealer said the same thing! Suggested lower octane. I am not sure how that could possibly help.

[andy@ross-tech.com]

FWIW, BMW's diagnostic procedures have a generic treatment for hard starting. Their first thing to check is the fuel quality and it mentions blend changes that correspond to the seasons. This problem appears to have been going on ever since gasoline was invented.

[paul_]

Got an '05 MCS and no cold start problems whatsoever. Unfortunately, I must admit an alternation between 91 and 93 Octane gas. could the older cars be less suited to the new software somehow?

[stylin99]

Originally Posted by andy@ross-tech.com

FWIW, BMW's diagnostic procedures have a generic treatment for hard starting. Their first thing to check is the fuel quality and it mentions blend changes that correspond to the seasons. This problem appears to have been going on ever since gasoline was invented.

You'd think BMW would have found a treatment for this if they knew it was an issue.

It's the only vehicle I've ever driven that had a problem with gas (and that's saying a lot). Maybe I should stop feeding my hamsters so many beans and put them on a "rice" diet. Will that fix the gas vapors Dr. Andy ?

[nightbirdflyin]

From the owner's manual.

Required
Premium Unleaded Gasoline,
Minimum Octane Rating: 91.
Minimum Octane Rating corresponds to
the Anti Knock Index (AKI) and is determined
according to the so-called (R+M)/2
method.

[Thameth]

Originally Posted by nightbirdflyin

From the owner's manual.

Required
Premium Unleaded Gasoline,
Minimum Octane Rating: 91.
Minimum Octane Rating corresponds to
the Anti Knock Index (AKI) and is determined
according to the so-called (R+M)/2
method.

Yea basically means put in 93("Premium") if possible but it will run on 91 if needed because 93 isn't availible. Isn't it true that 93 is difficult to find in Cali?

[whovous]

I use only 93 Octane in my Feb 04 build MCS. Until recently, the only problem I had was the same with a warm or cold engine; on occasion first gear seemed so tall that I wondered if I really had been driving sticks for thrity years. It would not stall, but it would sometimes really make me work to get rolling. Once rolling, all was fine.

A few months ago I got the software upgrade (39, 40, whatever) called for by the emissions recall. At the Dragon, I got a 15% reduction pulley. The first gear problem is now 100% gone, whether the engine is warm or cold. I have never had a yoyo, and am not sure if my previous problem qualifies as a stumble or not.

I now have the cold start problem, however. The first time I turn the key on a cold engine, I have little more than a 20% chance the engine will start. Revving the engine when I turn the key helps a little, not a lot.

If I turn the key off and back on again, the engine always starts as it should, and does not require a foot on the gas to do so. Once started, all is fine. I thought this problem would go away when the summer fuel met warmer weather, but that does not seem to be happening yet.

[kaelaria]

You guys are misinterpreting the sentance. Read it this way: Required Premium Unleaded Gasoline, Minimum Octane Rating: 91.
91 IS premium. So is 92,93,94,95. ANY premium is what it needs, premium being a MINIMUM of 91.