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Thank god I did a search on my idle problems and found this thread!
Same problem here. Car was fine when I bought it, now recently it's got a tough time idleing on cold starts. I counted about 20-25 seconds that it runs fine after you turn the key, then it goes into something similar to an open loop mode and gets real choppy, almost cuts off, and then comes back to life. It does it 2-3 times before it clears up. I always warm my car up at least 30 seconds before pulling out, so I see it do it every morning.
Can someone explain in depth the theory about the "summer gas"? I've never heard of such a problem with an ECU. What ingredient changes in summer that would cause this? It's annoying... embarassing... and worrisome. Makes me wonder if any long term effects can occur from starting up cold like this (lean cylinders, poor air/fuel ratios, etc)
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'07 MCS, Astro Blk, Rota RB wheels Hyper Black, Shrader Rear Seat Delete
'05 MCS, Chili Red (SOLD)
Weekend Warrior: '99 supercharged Mustang
815 hp at the wheels...
I'm really surprised at how many people don't run the Factory recommended Premium fuel.....
Some people are unable to comprehend an owners manual, some think the world is full of conspiricies and the requirement is BS, some think they know more than the factory.
05 MCS picked up on March 17. I have this problem also. I have only used HESS 93 Octane. Recently in dealer for service (Rear brake lights would stay on after car was shut off) was told there was a service bulletin about the brake light problem. I brought it in and they supposedly fixed it. I also asked them to check the car since I had a problem with cold starts. Car even stalled once, but usually just stumbles. Service Advisor stated nothing wrong, "it's a MINI"
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2011 MCS on order Lazer Blue / Blk., punch leather, premium and cold weather packages, xenons, retractable headlight washers, comfort access, bluetooth, anthracite headliner, rear fog, dynamic traction control, chrome line interior, center arm rest, auto dimming rearview mirror.
Thank god I did a search on my idle problems and found this thread!
Same problem here. Car was fine when I bought it, now recently it's got a tough time idleing on cold starts. I counted about 20-25 seconds that it runs fine after you turn the key, then it goes into something similar to an open loop mode and gets real choppy, almost cuts off, and then comes back to life. It does it 2-3 times before it clears up. I always warm my car up at least 30 seconds before pulling out, so I see it do it every morning.
Can someone explain in depth the theory about the "summer gas"? I've never heard of such a problem with an ECU. What ingredient changes in summer that would cause this? It's annoying... embarassing... and worrisome. Makes me wonder if any long term effects can occur from starting up cold like this (lean cylinders, poor air/fuel ratios, etc)
Another thing thats in your manual, it says to never "warm up" the car. It specifically says to get going as soon as you turn it on, that the MINI does not need warming up and doesn't like it.
What ingredient changes in summer that would cause this? It's annoying... embarassing... and worrisome. Makes me wonder if any long term effects can occur from starting up cold like this (lean cylinders, poor air/fuel ratios, etc)
I'm not an expert on gasoline. (Maybe expert will speak up and educate us both.) But gasoline is a witch's brew of hydrocarbons. As the weather gets warmer, they typically reduce the concentration of the some of the lower molecular weight hydrocarbons. This reduces the vapor pressure. I think they used to make this shift to prevent vapor lock. Now they do it to meet some type of emissions requirement.
Now, we just need someone to explain why MINIs can't idle with this low vapor pressure fuel.
I noticed this last summer with my '02 MCS, and it's happening a lot right now. I mentioned it last visit to the Service Advisor, and he recommended using a LOWER octane gas.
I think I'll live with the two start attempts thank you. BTW, Techron seems to help cut it down to only cold starts that last overnight or longer.
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Mini Cooper S
May 2002
30K Miles as of June 2005
Mini Madness Intake
Cowl Vent Mod
Magnecor Wires
Alta Ignition Coil
Iridium Plugs
Skid Plate
... (what else can I buy?)http://www.quasc.com/notebooks/mini.jpg
I noticed this last summer with my '02 MCS, and it's happening a lot right now. I mentioned it last visit to the Service Advisor, and he recommended using a LOWER octane gas.
Then he's a complete idiot like most dealer people are.
I noticed this last summer with my '02 MCS, and it's happening a lot right now. I mentioned it last visit to the Service Advisor, and he recommended using a LOWER octane gas.
My dealer said the same thing! Suggested lower octane. I am not sure how that could possibly help.
FWIW, BMW's diagnostic procedures have a generic treatment for hard starting. Their first thing to check is the fuel quality and it mentions blend changes that correspond to the seasons. This problem appears to have been going on ever since gasoline was invented.
__________________ http://www.ross-tech.net/andy/frink.gif
"Well, sure, the Frinkiac-7 looks impressive, don't touch it, but I predict that within 100 years, computers will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them."
Got an '05 MCS and no cold start problems whatsoever. Unfortunately, I must admit an alternation between 91 and 93 Octane gas. could the older cars be less suited to the new software somehow?
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'05 LY/B MCS - Factory LSD, 17" OZ Ultraleggeras with Hankook V12 Evos, Helix CAI, Helix 15% Pulley, Minspeed One-Ball Exhaust, 19mm Sway Bar, Tein SS Coilovers w/ EDFC, TSW rotors, SS lines, PBR Ceramic pads, ATE fluid, Whalen 50th Anniv. Shift Machine
FWIW, BMW's diagnostic procedures have a generic treatment for hard starting. Their first thing to check is the fuel quality and it mentions blend changes that correspond to the seasons. This problem appears to have been going on ever since gasoline was invented.
You'd think BMW would have found a treatment for this if they knew it was an issue.
It's the only vehicle I've ever driven that had a problem with gas (and that's saying a lot). Maybe I should stop feeding my hamsters so many beans and put them on a "rice" diet. Will that fix the gas vapors Dr. Andy ?
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'07 MCS, Astro Blk, Rota RB wheels Hyper Black, Shrader Rear Seat Delete
'05 MCS, Chili Red (SOLD)
Weekend Warrior: '99 supercharged Mustang
815 hp at the wheels...
Required
Premium Unleaded Gasoline,
Minimum Octane Rating: 91.
Minimum Octane Rating corresponds to
the Anti Knock Index (AKI) and is determined
according to the so-called (R+M)/2
method.
Required
Premium Unleaded Gasoline,
Minimum Octane Rating: 91.
Minimum Octane Rating corresponds to
the Anti Knock Index (AKI) and is determined
according to the so-called (R+M)/2
method.
Yea basically means put in 93("Premium") if possible but it will run on 91 if needed because 93 isn't availible. Isn't it true that 93 is difficult to find in Cali?
I use only 93 Octane in my Feb 04 build MCS. Until recently, the only problem I had was the same with a warm or cold engine; on occasion first gear seemed so tall that I wondered if I really had been driving sticks for thrity years. It would not stall, but it would sometimes really make me work to get rolling. Once rolling, all was fine.
A few months ago I got the software upgrade (39, 40, whatever) called for by the emissions recall. At the Dragon, I got a 15% reduction pulley. The first gear problem is now 100% gone, whether the engine is warm or cold. I have never had a yoyo, and am not sure if my previous problem qualifies as a stumble or not.
I now have the cold start problem, however. The first time I turn the key on a cold engine, I have little more than a 20% chance the engine will start. Revving the engine when I turn the key helps a little, not a lot.
If I turn the key off and back on again, the engine always starts as it should, and does not require a foot on the gas to do so. Once started, all is fine. I thought this problem would go away when the summer fuel met warmer weather, but that does not seem to be happening yet.
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It was a beautiful day.
The sun beat down.
I had the radio on.
I was driving.
'10 MCS Mayfair - HC/B
'04 MCS - BRG/W (174,000 miles!)
You guys are misinterpreting the sentance. Read it this way: Required Premium Unleaded Gasoline, Minimum Octane Rating: 91.
91 IS premium. So is 92,93,94,95. ANY premium is what it needs, premium being a MINIMUM of 91.
Well, mine did it this morning. It started, a little reluctantly, came up to fast idle, stumbled, ran rough, and stalled. Waited a few seconds, re-start, ran fine. No problems this afternoon, started and ran fine.
Going to the dealer tomorrow PM, will get it checked out. Will be prepared for their lies.
Edit 10Jun05: I should point out that I had recently, one month previously, had the "emissions" update to the ECU. Neither the SA nor SM could tell me which version of software was used. One thought it was v38 the other thought it was v4? This was the first update to the ECU that had been preformed on my baby, born 8-02. She had been comfortably and reliably running on v32.
Since the "update" I have had several problems develop, including cold start stalling.
I run 91 oct Shell V-Power in my 05 MCS and it sputters a tad after start up (sometimes I'm gone a week at a time and it always starts the first crank) but I just tap the gas and all's well. It's also happens more now than in colder weather. It's gotta be a combo of the seasonal gas blends and the Siemens unit. Otherwise my car is mechanically perfect after 6K. :smile: J
Might as well throw my hat in the ring, too. Mid-April build '05. I first noticed the near-stall in the mornings on Monday. Yesterday, at 1290 miles, something went kablooie, leaving me without power until I restarted the engine. It's at the dealer, now. :-(
Was this happening last summer to the 02-04 Mini's as well? Or is it only happening this year and our short memories have faded beyond remembering it....?
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'07 MCS, Astro Blk, Rota RB wheels Hyper Black, Shrader Rear Seat Delete
'05 MCS, Chili Red (SOLD)
Weekend Warrior: '99 supercharged Mustang
815 hp at the wheels...
My 2003 Cooper was doing it prior to the recall fix. It did it all last year. It did not do it for a couple months when it was new. It is odd. Everytime they update my ECU, it cures it for several weeks. But it always returns again... I also had very bad engine lag while running the A/C. Again, ECU update cured that for several weeks last year (July), but it seems to be returning.
2 issues here, which a couple of posters have repeatedly tried to reconfirm- one, that the thread was to concern "stumble," not starting problems, and two, that there are concerns about the misunderstanding of "minimum" and "recommended" (I would read as "mandatory") octane levels for gas. That being said, I was never able to resolve this problem, very severe, with my '03, despite 93 (never below) octane gas. Gas aside, this is a software issue, which BMW has had long enough to resolve. I've done pretty well with my '05 and am happy with it. If gas is interpreted to be a significant factor, (again-- for me, only 93 and never an "off brand"), then BMW should issue some aggressively worded guidance. To own a British car, (I won't bore anyone on that issue!), I would endure quite a bit, labeled as "quirks." But I think when it broaches becoming a safety issue, which it can in urban/suburban environment, that's a real problem-- and I could no longer tolerate that with my '03. I love this car, and am thankful that my '05 is not suffering from it, so far. Question is- why can't this just be resolved, once and for all??? Good luck to everyone...
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