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You don't get it - it's not a 'problem' - to them at least. Every dealer response has been - nothing we can do...and they are right. The issue is with the latest version of the ECU software. All we can do is wait for the next revision - that will probablybe for some other issue in the first place - and HOPE this will be addressed.
Mine has done it as long as I've owned it. I can deal with the stall while sitting still. I do NOT find it at all acceptable or safe however, that when I try to enter on to my busy arterial street coming out of my neighborhood in the morning, I nearly get rear ended from the on coming traffic as my car bucks and stumbles and misses.
Not cool. Not for a new, modern car. No excuses.
Also... I don't find it acceptable that my car does not always have a stable idle. It even rumbles and misses on random occasions while sitting at traffic lights in the middle of a driving day.
1st 2003 Cooper - Car would shudder upon starting, sometimes stall, usually would eventually level out. Lights would come on during the "shudder'. Told dealer about the issue. They looked at me like I was insane and told me they "could not replicate the issue."
2nd 2003 Cooper (1st was totaled) - Ditto. Car shudders and stalls. Stalls MUCH more than the previous one. Hasn't been updated with current software.
Nothing new to add, I'm just adding myself to the list.
I think my MCSa has a similar issue that you have mentioned. Its a rural pain to start. Mostly from a cold start and many times from a warm one. I took my car to be tinted and it sat for 2 hours and when they went to move it they thought there was a problem as the started ran and ran to turn over the engine. The only thing I find that helps (sometimes) is to turn the key to position 2 for 1-2second (prime fuel pump) and then turn it over.
__________________ Thank you COOPERation!
R50 04 PS MCa - Sold
R53 05 PS MCSa - Sold
R56 12 LiB/B MCSm Born 10/13/11 Bought 10/31/11 Home 11/5/11. CW, TP, SP, Sunroof, Xenon w/B Housings, AnthraciteHeadliner, Tint, JCW CF door handles, JCW CF Spoiler, Stubby, Black grill, Black R98 w/ Polished Lip
I had the problem of the car stalling after starting in the winter. Then again I live in Chicago and it was usually when it was 20 degrees or below. So I would just give Lance some time in the morning and he acted just peachy.
I also had the problem of the rough idle, another Mini owner suggested I switch from hi-grade to mid-grade. After one tank I haven't had the rough idle problem.
Recently, I did have the stalling problem again. I don't drive to work anymore and so the car sits for up to a week at a time. I just think Lance was pissed that I forgot about him for a week. So, he gets a little more attention.
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'03 MINI Cooper. Sport | Premium | Cold Weather
Black/Crome, Body Color Roof. Adopted Lance in Aug '04.
For what its worth, I have a 03' MCS built in 12/02. It only has 6,400 miles on it. I don't drive it very often, but when I do I usually put 200 miles at a time on it.
Remarkably, I've never had a starting problem with it. 99% of the time it will start and run on the first try. I don't drive it in the winter, so I start it at least every month, let it warm up, and drive it back and forth in the garage to lubricate the mechanicals.
When I do take it out, I'm easy with it until its throughly warmed up, and then drive it rather aggressively. It doesn't have any problems so far reving up through the gears to red line.
For what its worth. It does have the 210 JCW upgrade, and the new program didn't have any adverse affect on it so far.
I'm jumping up and down telling you that cold start is nothing -- really. Annoying -- but not a problem.
I'm experiencing this with my May 05 build MCS. (I've only got about 100 miles left to go on my break-in. )
As far as problems go, this may not seem like much, OmToast -- but when I'm pulling out into traffic from my car's overnight curbside parking spot downtown, it is a problem.
Sometimes the stall doesn't happen until I've accelerated, and if a car rounds the corner behind me, it finds me stopped right in the middle of the road.
If you have a driveway, maybe you've got the space to work out the morning kinks. I don't, and I'm not thrilled with the idea of working out the kinks in the middle of morning rush traffic.
As Tarzan mentioned before My JCW "05" stumbles at start up then recovers but at any outside temp. My "03" had an issue on cold mornings and it was a little more intense. My "05" just started this after I had an oil service at the dealer after 3000 miles.
I do NOT find it at all acceptable or safe however, that when I try to enter on to my busy arterial street coming out of my neighborhood in the morning, I nearly get rear ended from the on coming traffic as my car bucks and stumbles and misses.
Not cool. Not for a new, modern car. No excuses.
Exactly! I replied to OmToast before I'd read this (my bad). Thanks, JCW Driver!
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05MCS | CR/B, LSD, Sport/Prem/ColdWthr Pkgs, CR Int Panels & Shftr Knob, Blk Grille, HK Audio, iPod & Aux Jacks, Cockpit Chrono Pack, Center Armrest, Euro Parcel Shelf, Ian's Auto-up Circuit, S2000 Stubby, 35/20 Tint, LaminX Smoked Tails, Blk Repeaters, B SSW Inferno wheels, Falken/Ziex Ze 512 tires
I feel like the little kid in horror movies -- the one that nobody listens to, as they warn people of lurking evil dead things. I'm jumping up and down telling you that cold start is nothing -- really. Annoying -- but not a problem.
It goes beyond Annoying. It is in no way accaptable for a modern, brand new car, to behave this way. Wait until you try to sell your car, and its resale value is diminished because of its glitchy computer. Your "they all do that" will certainly be received with skepticism from the potential buyer.
Would you allow the manufacturer to convince you that you can pay them $20K to $30K (I'm above that now) for a car that can't idle at start-up without practically or even actually stalling, and that THEY don't mind that YOU find it annoying?
I've had this problem twice so far with my 05 Cooper S. Both were within the last week or so. I go to start the car, it tries to stall, and then will eventually catch.
For what's it's worth, there is a similar thread on mini2 as well right now.
I had posted that my MTH flash cured this for me - HOWEVER it just did it to me yesterday! The difference is - I had the AC on this time! When I have the AC off, it doesn't do it. But it actually stalled on me - TWICE yesterday during the first cold start. After the first time I let the fuel pump prime - no effect. It stalled again. The third time, I revved it up a few times and it idled normally. This was at the end of a tank of fuel, so nothing changed there. I had driven several days on this tank without problem. Bu the AC clutch loaded it down enough that it actually stalled - twice.
count me in with : "we start it nice cause we start it twice" followed by an innitial stumble the first time you pull out.(june build 2002 MCS with version 38) it seemed to happen with the advent of "Summer gas" although last winter I followed someone's advice and turned key to position before cranking and waited for the DSC light to go off before actually turning motor over and that seemed to work well-however DOESN'T work now!
__________________ mmc#294
R.I.P Zane Grey (2002 R53), now an R56 Hot chocolate/silver ! Coco Chanel
In the past month, my '03 MCS has started doing this every morning. Crank and it won't catch. Crank again and it catches every time. It also runs a little rough at first as well. A couple years ago, I experienced similar behavior when I went on a trip in Maine in August, 2003. Back then, I had an earlier version of DME firmware (v.32 -vs- v.36) and different mods, etc. The one thing in common between the then and now is that, in Maine, I filled up with Sunoco fuel and my last tank was Sunoco (my commute is short so that tank may have lasted me most of the month). I can't imagine the brand of fuel making such a big difference, but I just filled up with Lukoil 93. I'll see if it has any effect.
BTW, I discovered that it doesn't matter how long I crank it, it won't start on the first try. But, it always starts on the second try. So, I have just gotten into the habit of cranking it very quickly, then turning the key back off, then starting the car. Fix yer cold start behavior, MINI!
__________________ http://www.ross-tech.net/andy/frink.gif
"Well, sure, the Frinkiac-7 looks impressive, don't touch it, but I predict that within 100 years, computers will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them."
Might as well throw my name on this list too. All started around mid-May, when the summer blend was released.
Although I will now that it' s finally above 55 degrees (hell it's only June) the start-up issue hasn't been as noticible. Last week with rain wind and temps in the 40's the problem was much worse.
Obviously BMW is NOT a software company, but you'd think they would have a vendor who is.
All I get from the dealer is 'summer gas, please stop using premium and use mid grade'. done that it is still there. Not as bad. one local motorer has started using regular. In a MCS, that is terrible.
Not exactly what I want to do. Thanks MINI! You have disappointed me on this one.
I also got some crap about MINI would do a recall if it a genuine issue. My foot they will!
In the past month, my '03 MCS has started doing this every morning. Crank and it won't catch. Crank again and it catches every time. It also runs a little rough at first as well. A couple years ago, I experienced similar behavior when I went on a trip in Maine in August, 2003. Back then, I had an earlier version of DME firmware (v.32 -vs- v.36) and different mods, etc. The one thing in common between the then and now is that, in Maine, I filled up with Sunoco fuel and my last tank was Sunoco (my commute is short so that tank may have lasted me most of the month). I can't imagine the brand of fuel making such a big difference, but I just filled up with Lukoil 93. I'll see if it has any effect.
BTW, I discovered that it doesn't matter how long I crank it, it won't start on the first try. But, it always starts on the second try. So, I have just gotten into the habit of cranking it very quickly, then turning the key back off, then starting the car. Fix yer cold start behavior, MINI!
Andy,
I think your having a bit of a different problem then this thread is discussing. Your problem is cranking it over in the first place, most people in this thread are having problems with stumbling once the car is cranked over on cold start. And some of those people are having problems with their eventually stalling during that start at idle.
Just to add to my previous post, This afternoon i went to my 05' MCS with 1075 mi. on it. Started the car and a a few seconds later the idle dropped and recovered. But when it went to do the second drop in idle the car actually stalled..... I will be setting an appointment soon to have the car checked out by service even though i know there is nothing they can do. But the more complaints they get the more BMW will hear about it and hopefully it'll be fixed.
A little disapointing but the MINI is not the first to do this. Alot of small cars at least these days, especially ones tuned for performance like the MCS have been having ALOT of issues with software tuning.
As i said previously, alot of SVT Focus Owners have been battling years of new ECU updates from Ford with no end in site to little issue's from the company. Just recently though a company called SCT came out with an ECU flash that is basically a godsend. Everybody who has installed it finally has their cars running like it should have from the factory along with better fuel mileage and power! And thats on an NA engine.
I know there are a few other performance cars out there that have been having alot of issue's with ECU programming. It seems like the car companies are having alot of trouble having the computer control SO many different situations all these cars have to live through.
I'm simply trying to point out that the cold start and the stumble are 2 entirely different beasts and should not be referred to interchangeably. I'm also trying to tell you that fixing one may land you the other, so watch what you wish for.
If you have to start your car twice in the morning, that's annoying. I know, because my 03 MCS has had this problem in the past and now in the present thanks to the emissions upgrade, I assume. So, annoying: yes. Dangerous: not at all.
Now if your car is lurching and bucking about, that's also a whole 'nuther bag of nuts. That may be the stumble. That is not only HORRIFICALLY annoying, it's got the added no-cost bonus of being dangerous.
These two are related (in my mind - and in the mids of others) because 2 years ago I was annoyed about having to start my (excellently driveable)car twice every morning. Eventually, a terminal number of people complained about this and MINI released a software fix, of which I happily partook.
I then WOUND UP with the stumble and have spent just about every single day for the past two years wishing that I would have shut my can about starting the car twice in the morning.
I am NOT saying that this is correct. I DO NOT believe that any car, regardless of price, should have such a sniggling difficulty as the cold start issue. What I AM SAYING is thus:
Fix at your own risk, and if it's not affecting the driveablility of your vehicle, perhaps wait a good long time before you jump on any software patches.
It's wrong and shady and wicked of MINI, yes. But I would MUCH rather have my "old", pre-cold-start-fix car back than be right.
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"You got a great car... Yeah what's wrong with it today?"
Can't say I have noticed a huge difference between winter & summer. It happened daily now like it did in the winter. Thinking about it though the problem seems a little more severe (i.e closer to actually stalling out) now then in the winter.
In my area the gas choices are Regular - 87 Octane, Mid-Grade - 89 Octane, and Premium is either 92 or 93 (Citgo vs Marathon station). I rarely find the recommended 91 Octane in Ohio and to be honest do not see a difference between 92 & 93...
The dealers (3 different ones to date - Texas, and 2 in Ohio) have never mentioned the "gas" issue. I agree with earlier posts - its unacceptable to have a car that acts this way. I had a Beretta GT (first model year) when I graduated college and it stalled and revved (sp?) erratically and I took it to lemon law arbitration. Chevy blamed it on detergent additives and recommended detergent free (at that time) Amoco. It did not fix the problem - the dealer ended up taking the car back and getting me into another car at minimal expense. More their decision than Chevy - they had sold 5 or 6 cars to my family....
Makes me wonder if my recent order for a new MCSa was a good decision, even though I love my MC.
As far as MiniUSA is concerned - I bet they do nothing, zip, nada, squat etc.... In my last phone call follow-up to my service visit I gave them a long list of disappointments - both from me and my dad (he owns at '03 MC). They promised a call from someone "up the food chain" to address my concerns - its been months and I am still waiting. This is the second promise of concern and follow-up after unacceptable service results - btw I gave my dealer a and Mini a or .
Less than 1500 miles and experiencing the near stall
We were away over the memorial day weekend and noticed the "near stall" the morning after our trip. Now it seems like any time that it sits for a substantial amount of time (8 hours or so) it causes it to almost stall upon start up. What is up with this mini? There is no reason that we should have to live with this due to some programming mistake.
My 05 MC Cabrio sat for 2 weeks while I was on vacation & it started without a hitch.
Thank you COOPERation!
In a MCS, that is terrible.
