Greetings. In need of some advice or assistance badly. So here is the story. 07 MINI S, stalled in middle of road. It would start but would hear a loud "death rattling." So just had it toad to house. Once home discovered the right chain guide in pieces. So..had it replaced with newest parts and tensioner.

Put it all back together now..still wont start. Replaced battery checked spark etc. Spark plugs appeared dry so figured it was the HPFP that finally gave way. So had it toad to Orlando Mini, and they verified indeed the HPFP has failed and was replaced. However, they said car still wont start and let me know to verify timing. Now, when the timing was done we made sure everything was in place, and flywheel pin locked in, lobes and marking in proper orientation all according to the Bentley manual.

Now my question, is it possible that even though everything appears to be timed correctly could I be say 180 degrees out of time? Is there a safe way to check the timing when removing valve cover to verify that its timed properly? Any other suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

 

No, you can't be 180 degrees off if you followed the proper instructions.

As you probably already know the camshafts have the 3 flat sides and the curved side on their end, where they are locked in time. The curved sides must be pointing down and the stamping on the center of the cams must face up. If those are good and the crankshaft was locked into place, then you are properlly timed.


Do you have a manual or automatic trans? Asking because the automatic trans has two different crank holes which can be confused. For the automatic trans - when using a BMW lock tool - the tool is pressed completely into the opening. What can happen is you can insert it on the wrong hole, and it will stick out about 1/2 inch - this of course is incorrect and will cause a mistime.


Did you perform a compression check after the chain install?

Did you drop the oil pan and remove any broken guide pieces before they get sucked into the oil pump pickup and block it?

Did you crank the engine after installing the chain (before installing valve cover) and inspect for any unusual noises, spinning, movement of the cams and oil pressure(the oil will start squirting from the vacuum pump area)?

 

Joey

Thank you for your reply. Got it to start but now have other issues...Well, I must have been 180 degrees out as once I adjusted the timing I was able to get it to start on the third try. I do have the automatic transmission so I must of set the timing wrong first time.

Now after I got it started its idling very rough. I am also getting misfire codes on cylinder 3 & 4 no other codes. Once I drive it seems to drive normally, but since I have idling issues I have it parked and will have to now try to figure out whats causing this. Will the car still start if the timing is little off and cause it idle bad? Maybe the timing slipped..idk. Any ideas or assistance will be greatly appreciated.

 

From experience with other cars, yes the engine will start with the cam timing (or ignition timing, or both) a bit off. It's only when things are more than just a little off that it won't start.

The #3 & #4 misfire codes would convince me to check the plugs, and swap the coils around. If that had no effect, I'd check the compression. If you've got access to a bore-scope, poke it into the intake and look for crud in the ports and on the valves. If you don't have access to one, look for one on Amazon or elsewhere--some of them are not expensive!

 

BENT VALVES likely due to the timing issue and the chain tensioner issue!!!

 

Thanks for the replies. I will buying a Borescope on amazon today and post or update what I see. I will also perform compression test and leak down perhaps as well.

Question, If valves are bent what else would be required to do besides just replacing the valves themselves ? Sorry for my ignorance.

 

Don't waste your money on the scope just yet...just do the compression test first. Bent valve= no compression (simplest diagnostic tool). After that if comp #'s are good, then leakdown and possible scope.
How many miles on the car? While the head is off, it will likely need new guides, for sure change the valve seals and get the valves ground...no point in pulling it all apart down the road.
I had an N12 head done--similar situation--it cost $1200 (in Canada) for a rebuild. BTW they are a real PITA to reassemble...have the shop do all the work.

 

Thanks very much for the reply. I have performed a Compression Test on my 2007 MINI S with 109,500 miles. Here are the results:

Dry 1. 180 psi Wet: 215
Dry 2. 180 psi Wet: 215
Dry 3. 190 psi Wet: 225
Dry 4. 20 psi Wet: 60

So...I am not an expert but it seems Cylinder #4 is not looking good. Now is this is a sure sign of "Bent Valve's"? Or do I need to perform a Leak Down test, but I am not sure if it's necessary as there is obviously something not good.

What would the next best step be? Remove the head myself or is it not worth it and easier and nearly same cost to have a local mini specialist do the work on the head? What will the job entail? Is is practical to do diy cylinder head removal?

Sorry for all the questions, just never been down this road.

Thanks in advanced.

 

Leak down won't tell you anything more if the valve/s are bent--you will still get the same results---high leakdown % in number 4.
Likely a bent valve due to improper timing.
Depends on how handy/good you are at mechanical work...the head need to come off either way and the valves in #4 need to be checked.
Removing the head is a PITA...so it's your call. A shop that has done this multiple times will likely, in the end, be your best and most cost effective solution.
You may be able to find a used low mileage head but generally they will also have bent valves (from my experience) so be sure to have it checked before you pay any money for it.

 

A leakdown test will tell you where the air is escaping. You pressurize the cylinder when it's at TDC, and listen for where the air comes out. Oil filler == air going past the rings or through the piston, intake snorkel == intake valves, tailpipe == exhaust valves.

Or you just pull the head and inspect with the Mark I Eye Ball.

 

I don't understand how the OP could have such high compression readings, a member just rebuilt his engine with forged bottom end and after the break-in his compression was 170, 170, 170 and 168 psi dry test. My dry test was 165,165, 165 and 170 and I have almost zero carbon on the tops of my pistons.

So I thought that perhaps that the OP must have a ton of carbon built-up on top of the pistons especially after 109,500 miles. I would recommend at least running a few bottles of BG 44K through the tank, it will remove carbon build-up in the combustion chambers.

 

1-Carbon on top of the piston has nothing to do with compression number (carbon just sits on top of the piston). Compression is simply the seal of the camber--rings to wall and valves to seat. Carbon on the valves--not allowing complete closure is another story!!
2-Forged bottom end has nothing to do with compression--just stronger for more revs
3-Did you do your dry test on a hot or cold engine?
4-Compression numbers can vary depending on the gauge--mostly looking for even numbers across the 4 cylinders. Really low numbers on all 4 -- lots of ring wear or poor valve sealing ___engine is old and tired!!!

THE VALVES in #4 are BENT!!! cleaning isn't going to do a damn thing!!
Good idea to do leak down or simply compressed air into cylinder 4 and listen for where the leak is--dollars to donuts you will hear it coming out of the intake or exhaust.

 

Thanks for the replies. Do appreciate them. So the Local mechanic http://www.maitlandimports.com/ wants around $1600 + machine shop cost $60-$300 to repair head. So I may just remove it myself and bring it to the machine shop or ship it to Way motor works in Atlanta if possible and see if they can repair head. Seems that the worst part is putting radiator in service mode and making sure it all goes back to where it came from...

As for my compression test. The tester was brand new, and had very positive reviews.
Now the first compression tester I did was when the engine was cold. As in I had not started the engine in over a week. The results were:

DRY: WET
1. 170 1. 230
2. 165 2. 220
3. 179 3. 225
4. 150 4. 215

So I did not trust the numbers but found them interesting especially for the 4th cylinder compared to when the engine was hot. But there must be a logical reason for the 4th cylinder to read much higher psi when being hot. But idk.

But again here were the Hot readings after running the engine for 15 minutes:

Dry 1. 180 psi Wet: 215
Dry 2. 180 psi Wet: 215
Dry 3. 190 psi Wet: 225
Dry 4. 20 psi Wet: 60

I tested them each 3 times to verify.

The vehicle starts right up, drives overall fine with good power, but idling is rough.

I have a borescope but not sure where to use it!?

Best regards

 

Interesting numbers cold/hot--valve likely sticking open more when hot???

Props for doing the head yourself--but be prepared for a lot of frustration as there are a lot of hard to access nuts/bolts.

Don't worry about service position--just pull the front end off--it will save you time in the end.

Can't see much with a scope--except a hole in the piston/broken piston/scored cylinder walls or in the case of my R53--missing piston!!!

 

Interesting results, my compression readings were the same when cold or hot and I'm talking about testing 15-20 seconds after shutting off. You'll save a fortune removing the head yourself.

 

I am in the middle of removing the cylinder head. I need to remove the exhaust manifold but not sure how and if the turbo needs to be removed? Also does the catalytic converter have to be removed?

Thanks in advanced

 

Well after a couple days of wrenching, and research and lots of greasy finger prints of my Bentley manual I have removed my cylinder head! I'm no expert but it looks like couple slightly bent Intake valves. Anyways here are some images of the cylinder head and pistons. Now the head at the machine shop, and hopefully wont be too bad thanks for all the help everyone.




See anything abnormal?





Looks like the top left valve is bent little bit ?





Looks like the top left valve is bent little bit ?





4th cylinder piston, at right side of the image on the piston there appears two marks on each side.

 

Pretty much as predicted...wasn't it fun getting it off??

 

lol, I Would not put it as fun, but a very good learning experience. Certainly lots of patience required.

Thank you for the help

 

Mini's are a love hate relationship...love it when it's working..hate it when I have to fix anything under the hood!!! Especially with bear size paws...

 

It seems like damage was done to valves and pistons on your initial Death Rattle stall-out in the middle of the road. A valve strike on piston #4, you can somehow remove the indentation to prevent a hot spot and replace one or rebuild the head. I'm sort of concerned about the structural damage on the piston but I think the pistons might be ok, I'll wait for someone else to chime in on that. I also see two minor valve strikes on the #3 cylinder. I recommend new valves and valve guides at this point.

I also have a 2007 MCS, just got it taken care of early on and I have the chain slack checked yearly. Sometimes there is no warning.