I have seen and repaired a crazy number of timing chain issues on these R56/60 vehicles. I must admit a lot of it could probably be prevented with shorter maintenance schedules.

 

I would say the '07-'10 N14 motors (turboed cars) is where the issue will arise. The '11+ (N18 motors), including the R60 are not having the same kind of issues as the "earlier" 2nd gen cars.

 

Yes, but at the same time the N18 engine although different in some respect to the N14(i.e. Oil volume control, EGR passages, Vacuum pump etc.) is still a turbocharged engine with long oil service intervals.

 

Yes but from the factory they got a different tensioner, should be more robust, like the new one our N14 motors get.

I do agree that 15k is too long for an oil change, I do 7.5k mi on my MINI oil. Not only is it long between changes, how many owners do you think actually check the level of the oil during that year or so of driving and top it off as the oil is consumed.

 

Considering the fact that I have diagnosed and repaired many timing chain issues, even with updated tensioners, the N18 engines do not put me at ease. At the end of the day, a stronger spring will not do its proper job if the engine is missing 2qts of oil. This is something I see regularly and its pretty much taking life away from the engine One mile at a time.

As you suggested, changing the oil more frequently and even more important, keeping it filled like it is supposed to, will easily prevent 80% of the premature engine and timing chain issues i see on a daily basis. I can honestly say that some owners consider "free maintenance" to be "maintenance free".

 

Keeping Preaching Joey. Someday soon maybe people will start checking their oil level again. I know I do.

 

This.

The service intervals are far to long, hence when you look @ 2013 service intervals you will notice they have shorten them.

I've done more timing chain kit services then I'd like to admit. Honestly I've done more cylinder head rebuilds due to timing chain failures (complete failure) then I'd like to admit as well. Sad thing is...throwing a new chain, and updated tensioner and chain guides at this problem doesn't solve the serious design issue MINI/BMWNA & PSA Peugeot Citroën are just ignoring in hopes that these failures make it outside the warranty.

 

I have to ask, my timing chain just failed and destroyed my engine under 30k (07 mcs). Since you have experience with this, do you think there's any chance my local dealer (not the one it was purchased from as its relocated from WA to CA but theyve had it for service) will help pay for a new one? Ive heard of it happening on here but i just dont know how to go about it or if i should even hope. Just curious if you've seen or heard of this happening.

 

2012 or newer models oil change maintenance is every 10k...

 

Have they made an initial offer to you yet on what the repair cost is? All you can do is complain/ask for a better offer. Every dealer is different, but I imagine the response you'll get will be similar to what I just went through. They quote a ridiculously high repair price, you complain, they talk to corporate and come back with an offer where you just pay for labor. And depending your dealer's hourly labor rate, you could still be looking a really decent chunk of change (over $3000 in my case.) Sorry to hear you are in the same boat, good luck.

 

I went to my mechanic (not the dealer) for diagnosis (cheaper and I trust him). He's quoted me $5500 ($4000 in parts, $1500 labor). Im going to the dealer next to see what they say. Wish me luck.

 

For what's it's worth for this thread. I took my 2010 MCS in for it's first service inspection and 2nd oil/filter change at 29,825 miles. When they inserted the fob the "MINI Campaign Sim N14 Chain Tensioner M11 02 12" was added to the list of work and it was replaced. I walked out a few hours later with my 2nd $0 invoice for this MINI. I'm still a happy camper. It has always run like a dream.

Just don't ask about my 10-year old Gen1 MCS. Coolant reservoir #3 installed last night.

 

ToB,

Could you please post the full part number for the tensioner they installed? Also, can you confirm from the work order that they did not replace the guides and chain as well?

What dealer did you go to?

Thanks!

DOC

 

If I read the invoice correctly, it only says Chain Tensioner #11-31-4-609-483. There's no other information for that Job #. I'd say that they did not replace anythin other than the tensioner. I was not experiencing any odd noises or issues at the time of service. I was just there for regular, scheduled, service.

I always take my MINI's to Classic MINI in Willoughby, Ohio. It is also where I purchased the subject 2010 MCS.

Based on the part no. and a quick interwebs search, this is the tensioner installed. Doesn't look like much and makes sense why it's so easy to replace.

 

I recently purchased a 08 MCS with 30,9xx miles on it from a non mini dealer. Drove the car for maybe a day after I purchased it till I was getting some really loud knocking coming from the timing chain area. Took it back to the dealership I got it to get looked at. They informed me that it needed a whole new timing chain.. and I assume the tensioner as well. The dealership has taken it upon themselves to not only have the car towed up to the nearest Mini Dealership (2+ hrs away) but is also paying the bill for everything. Since this all happened (On Thursday of this week) I have had a loaner vehicle. So far I have been very pleased with everything the dealership has done for me. Just hope I dont have any other problems related to this on the vehicle.

 

Thanks! the P/N 11-31-4-609-483 is, I believe, the current "standard", or "short" tensioner. I measured one at Herb Chambers Mini today and got about 85 mm. I bought a couple 11-31-4-609-482 "long" tensioners. These measure just under 92 mm. (This from the top of the head to the end of the plunger.) (This "superceded" P/N 11 31 7 607 551, referenced in the TSB, for use when slack is less than 68 mm.) (The "body" of each is the same length. Just the plunger length is different.)

The spring tension of the "short" tensioner seemed to be slightly higher, compared side by side, in terms of how much a force it took to initially compress the plungers on the bench. This makes sense, given how much longer the "2" is. However, with a chain like mine that currently measures 65.54 mm of slack, I believe that the amount of total spring pressure on the chain in the "fitted" postion will be significantly higher than the tensioner currently installed in my car.

I'm interested to see if the "long" tensioner eliminates the "zing" that I usually hear on cold startup. BMW has stated in TSB SI M11 02 07 that this is "normal", but I suspect that this is the chain dragging on aluminum and that it contributes to the ridiculously rapid wear of the timing chain system on the N12 and N14 motors. (An Accusump would clearly eliminate that problem, but Inskip Mini claimed it would void the warranty.)

BTW, I have on good authority that the timing chain slack on new N12 engines is 63.9 mm. This would suggest that my car gained 1.64 mm of slack in 28,000 miles. Assuming an even rate of wear, this would put the projected slack at 66.83 mm at 50K miles and that at 70K miles, it will be at the "limit" referenced in the TSB of 68 mm where replacement of the whole TC system is called for .

BTW, NONE of the tensioners I handled today have the large central hole in the head like the picture you posted, just a solid machined surface. Otherwise, they are very similar.

DOC

 

Thanks for the investigative work and the clarification; I'd been wondering what the essential difference in these two parts was for some time now...!

It does not; at least it didn't with mine. I receive the -482 tensioner (and only the -482 tensioner) under warranty when mine was worked on for a light timing chain rattle. When I went back afterwards and asked about the 'zing' noise on startup (thinking, like you, that it was related to the timing chain), they told me it was not the timing chain; trying to recall from memory what they did say it was, and want to say they claimed it was some pump (maybe vacuum...?) priming. I'd have to go back and look at my paperwork...

What is the timing chain length limit at which it will be replaced? I see you mention 68mm, but apparently, when mine was measured during this warranty service, it was at 68mm, but was not replaced; only the tensioner... Shouldn't mine have been replaced...? What does the TSB say...?

 

The TSB from 2010 called for replacement of "everything" if the slack exceeded 68 mm. However, I was told by Herb Chambers that they no longer go by that TSB. It is now on a "case by case" basis.

Since my slack is a bit less than yours, it will be interesting to see if it eliminates that noise on mine.

Did the "long" tensioner cure your cold start rattle?

DOC

 

Interesting... Yeah, I'd be curious to know whether my initial suspicions about the source of that 'zing' noise were accurate; mine does that on just about every cold start. Definitely post up your findings with the -482 tensioner!

Well, for the time being at least, yes. The rattle on mine was only intermittent on start-up, and I've not heard it since the -482 tensioner was installed -- although mine is something of a garage queen, so it may not be a good one from which to draw any conclusions. Once it started exhibiting the rattle a bit more repeatably (although not on every start-up) -- and with the end of my warranty looming -- I got it in for service. I'd thought I'd gotten it dealt with quickly enough to avoid any other 'damage,' but apparently the chain was stretched a bit regardless...

 

The "zing" is referred to in the TSB (SI M11 02 07) as a "one-off short shrill.......... caused by the first regulation of the engine oil pump." (BTW, regardless of whether this is considered "normal" by BMW, it does NOT mean it is "good".) In my opinion, this is NOT an oil pump noise, but RATHER a noise caused by the tensioner not being fully pressurised with oil FROM the pump and then the chain dragging on something it really should not be.

Are you out of warranty?

DOC

 

Yeah, I'm with you: the 'zing' struck me more as a noise related to the timing chain rather than any pump. But that's the 'party line' I got from MINI: a pump priming...

Yeah; it ran out of warranty at the beginning of August. For what it's worth, I had it in during the warranty period specifically complaining about the 'zing' not long after the tensioner swap, so if something does go south, I've got at least a ghost of a chance to get it addressed by MINI... Maybe...

 

My plan at this point is try to get the whole timing chain, guide and tensioner assembly replaced under warranty just before it runs out at 50K miles, then install an Accusump.

Have you noticed that when you restart after a few minutes, there is no "zing"? That's because the oil has not had a chance to drain out of the tensioner yet. I am convinced that this is the primary cause of premature wear (relative to other cars with timing chains) of the Prince timing chain system.

My advice to all Mini Prince owners is to periodically measure their timing chain slack and make sure that when they get close to 68 mm, they at least have the "long" tensioner in place. The "dummy" tensioner is not hard to fit. I have an aftermarket one on the way. When it arrives, I plan to compare the measurement I get with that one to the 65.54 mm number the dealer came up with using the BMW factory tool (ST 11 9 340).

Depending on the length of the tensioner currently installed, I may or may not install the "long" tensioner at this time. I expect to find a mark on the barrel where it routinely sits. I plan to measure the spring pressure at the current fitted height, then see what the spring pressure is when the "long" tensioner is compressed to the same length. If the existing tensioner is very close to running out of travel, obviously the "long" one is going right in. On the other hand, if there is lots of travel left, there is no point in having more than necessary spring pressure, since (knock on wood) I do not seem to have any cold start rattle, yet.

(Actually, I did have it for the first 1000 miles. I switched to 00W-40 Mobil 1 at that time and it went away, at least until now.)

DOC

 

Ok, I'm interested in your findings. Let us know your results along with where you bought the "dummy" tensioner and the procedure used to measure the chain.

Thanks, Greg

 

I bought a JTC 4915. Ebay sellers and others have these and similar. This one is specifically supposed to be for BOTH the N12 and N14. The procedure is in the TSB referenced. It will probably be a while before I get around to taking out the tensioner and measuring.

DOC

 

Hey DOC, could you give a quick rundown on how to measure the chain slack? From what I remember, its done from under the car? I remember reading it somewhere but can't seem to find it now.

I'm at 77k miles now, and had the the tensioner changed under warranty around 35k miles. I have to check the records to see if they did the whole assembly. It was quiet, but has recently started to become noisy on cold starts again.