Okay, who has killed their Aisin 6 speed autos? I'm not talking about the CVT.

Here's what I have...

2005 MCS Convert with the auto. 80k on the clock and not abused (raced, etc). Fluid has not been changed, I'm unsure if there was a leak but that this point I'm thinking not (more on that later).

Symptoms:
It's been slipping occasionally between shifts for awhile. I did not observe that problem until recently, I thought my wife was only experiencing the kicking from bad mounts (those are fixed now). A few times it has completely slipped between shifts for between three and eight seconds (just rev rev rev). I haven't fully diagnosed if it happens at all gear changes (since it's a bit intermittent) but I do know it is the worst between 3 and 4.

The problem will still happen if it's in SD or Manual mode. When it's slipping particularly bad (the long slip, lose all power start pulling over) it will not allow me to manually shift, it will stick in M4 if it was going up to 4 or M3 if it was going down to three, it will hold this gear until the transmission stops slipping. I have not had the chance to change to neutral, reverse, or park during this case because Iw as too busy getting out of traffic's way.

In addition to the above when it's acting up it will shift into Drive quite harshly, same with reverse (although not quite as harsh). Originally it would slip on D engagement quite a bit but I did not notice that today.

When everything is cold it acts just fine. Once the oil reaches normal operating temperature is where things start to go funny. If you get it a little extra-hot (not overheated, just after stop and go traffic or waiting for a train) is when it gets really bad.

Now for what I've done...

My first suspect when I found the problem and verified it was transmission (my first theory was a confused DSC) was a leak. I did see some residue at the RH axle shaft. It was brown in color so I thought it was engine oil when I first spotted it.

Last night I drained the pan and refilled it. The so-called lifetime oil was crappy looking, it was brown but did not smell burnt. I refilled it following the Bentley Book method with the transmission oil at approximately 42 degrees C. It took just under two quarts of oil back into the transmission (about the same amount I drained out).

This evening I plan to get under it and look at that axle seal. I wiped the area clean last night so I should be able to quite easily tell if it is leaking.

So, am I hosed? If so I'm pretty pissed, a non-abused transmission lasting under 80K is absolutely ridiculous on a $32,000 car.

Thanks,
Sequoia

 

Prior to the first-time ever fluid change was it always at the proper level? If not, maybe it was starving for the tranny fluid and if so, it could have fried some of the parts without making any sort of burnt smell.

Any sort of metal shavings in the old fluid?

I think the name "lifetime oil" is just that, it will "last a lifetime", but you still need to keep adding any needed fluids as it may leak out.

 

I'd love to say no-way, no-how but with their crappy design you can't really just pop over to the curb and check the transmission fluid. Going by how much volume I removed from the transmission last night I'm going to say I doubt that it was low.

No real shavings that came out with from the drain plug, I did not drop the pan this time though (since part of the reason was to verify whether it leaks).

 

I'm experiencing near identical issues - mileage over 120k but still cannot believe that this car is failing so quickly.
Did you manage to solve the issue or did you end up replacing the entire transmission?

 

No cure yet, the car is currently mothballed until I can get to it.

My plan of action right now is to wing it, pull the pan and take a look-see, then start looking at the cooler. Whenever I get resolution (or just handy info) I will share.

 

Have you looked into having it rebuilt, or are you going to buy a new one or rebuild it yourself?

It's interesting to me to hear people complain that a part should not have failed "this early". I'm curious, how long would you consider the normal life to be for a transmission or other major part like this?

 

Well, one example would be my other Aisin transmissions, in my Jeeps, without heavy abuse they tend to last 300,000. From this I'd expect no less than 150k - 200k, again without abusive driving.

I'm not sure what route I'll take for the repair if it ends up being completely hosed, I will be doing the work myself though, I can't afford to pay somebody else to do it when I can do it just as well myself.

 

I'm the same way, if I can do it I don't see the point of paying someone else to do it for me.....

Are parts available for these transmissions? If so I can't imagine it being a really expensive rebuild....some clutch paks, gaskets and a thorough cleaning....

 

My story is similar to the O.P.'s.

I started having issues with the 6 speed automatic transmission in my 2005 MCS last year. The car had about 80,000 miles on it when the tranny started to fail. I've never tracked the car and it has only the most minor of mods - a JCW exhaust (for a while it did have an Alta intake as well). Most of my driving is in town.

The symptoms were minor at first - when hot the transmission would occasionally "flare" when shifting from 3rd to 4th, flaring being a near equivalent to what happens in a manual when one misses a shift - the transmission drops out of one gear and then doesn't make it into the next gear. It would not matter if the transmission was shifting of its own accord or I was using the paddle shifters. After a few weeks the issue started happening on occasion when shifting from 2nd to 3rd.

Side note - when cold the transmission would work perfectly, usually for up to 30 minutes though towards the end that time dropped to as little as 15 minutes.

Changing the fluid and strainer helped a bit for a couple of days but the problem returned and quickly became worse. I investigated my options and found the following:

- Have a dealer rebuild or replace the tranny. Unfortunately the only option any of them offered was to replace the unit with one from the factory...about $6500 for the transmission and about $3000 to install. 2 year warranty. The car was only worth about $10,500 as a trade-in. Ouch.

- Have an outside shop replace the transmission with a new unit from the Mini dealer. Less cost (~$7000) but still not reasonable.

- Find a used transmission with a warranty. This proved impossible. Even had trouble finding any used transmission - the only one I found had over 60,000 miles and they wanted $3000 for it delivered with no warranty whatsoever.

- Have my transmission rebuilt. I spoke with at least 6 transmission shops in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. Only one was willing to rebuild the unit. The others were unwilling to touch the car, telling me among other things that Minis are too difficult to work on, that no rebuild kit is available, etc. The most telling line was from one guy who said "Nope, sorry - those things scare us." followed by him hanging up.

The shop that was willing to tackle the job is The Transmission Shop (http://www.thetransmissionshop.com) in Garland, Texas. I was quoted $3300 unless the transmission needed a valve body, in which case it would be $4500 (prices include tax). The quote included a new torque converter, which they require because the work carries a 3 year / 36,000 mile warranty. It would be in the shop for a week to ten days owing to the fact that they would likely have to order parts in addition to the rebuild kit (which they had no problem getting) and would not know what they needed until they opened up the unit.

I sold a kidney, got stitched up and dropped off the car. Borrowed a neighbor's massive Ford Expedition, which had just enough gas to get me to the filling station. Dropped $72 worth of gas into it and drove around in amazement that it's actually possible to drive a living room.

It took The Transmission Shop about three weeks to rebuild the unit. The rebuild did require a new valve body. Then the car had to spend some time down at Mini of Dallas having a transmission related code troubleshot which they took care of. Back at the transmission shop a final diagnostic revealed that another valve needed to be replaced which they were able to do by dropping the pan rather than by taking everything apart again.

Final cost: $4500 (including tax).

Time in shop: Four weeks to the day.

Final result: Car runs / shifts better than new.

While I wish this had taken a lot less time and been a lot less expensive I must say that The Transmission Shop did great work. They were even kind enough to wash and vacuum it. I'd use them again though I hope to not do so.

If I had this to do over again I would stop by the transmission shop whilst the car was taken apart, grab the supercharger (which I found out had to be removed to get the transmission out) and replace the water pump and supercharger oil reservoir.

I will also say that it's incredibly disappointing to have to replace the transmission on a car with only 80,000 miles on it, especially bearing in mind that the vehicle has never been tracked and has been, on average, driven very mildly. The shop told me that every clutch disc and clutch plate in the unit was fried and that it appeared the transmission had over 150,000 miles on it. Considering I've never burned up a transmission before during my 35 years of driving (my previous car had 175,000 miles on it with the original transmission, still worked great) I don't think it was my driving style.

Just my opinion but I'd say the transmission is not well enough built to handle the load a MCS engine puts on it.

 

I'd say it's reasonable to expect at least a transmission to last 150,000 miles given normal driving conditions. I base this on my personal experience, that of my friends and neighbors and on multiple discussions I've had with professional auto mechanics over the years.

 

But it's still all just heresay and opinion, isn't it?

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but "it should last XXXXXX miles" always seems like a specious argument to me.

 

You were asking for opinions in the post I replied to ("I'm curious, how long would you consider the normal life to be for a transmission or other major part like this?").

My reply is not specious in the least. It is not even an argument. It is an opinion which is empirical (based on observation and/or experience). I included the basis for my opinion when I stated it.

A specious argument is one that appears to be valid initially but which is actually fallacious. One cannot reasonably even call an opinion specious unless one has presented a counter opinion and stated the basis for that opinion. To do otherwise is prima facie evidence of simply being argumentative.

I would also note that "back in the day" when I was earning my undergraduate degree (I have a B.S. in mechanical engineering and am a registered professional engineer in the state of Texas) design standards for the automotive industry were to develop mechanisms which would last for 4000 to 8000 hours of use at an average speed of 25 mph. I'll save you the math - that's 100,000 to 200,000 miles. There were other factors in the standards as well, including the number of cycles of use, etc. but I remember that particular one most clearly.

 

Advice #1: change your ATF & filter every 30-40k regardless of what the manufacturer says!!!

Advice #2: Again, change your ATF & filter every 30-40k regardless of what the manufacturer says!!!

Advice #3: There's no such thing as "lifetime" ATF. "Lifetime" is legal speak for the length of the factory warranty.

VW/Audi uses this same Aisin transmission and has backed off from the "lifetime" bull crap. About a year or 2 ago, they issued a 40k interval on ATF & filter change. OTOH, BMW thinks MINI drivers all have accounts in the Cayman Island so they don't bother to treat us fairly.

The Auto tranny in my VW New Beetle also have the "lifetime" ATF. The dealer told me the tranny is sealed and to leave it alone. I disobeyed such non-sense and followed the advice of a few nutty V-Dubbers - drain & refill plus filter change every 50k or shorter. Happy to say the tranny hasn't kicked the bucket yet at 183xxx miles. Hoping it goes beyond 200k.

This Aisin unit can handle the torque load of the MCS. It's paired with the Audi TT 180HP engine and heavier car to boot. I've seen a few TTs with 150k+ with this unit.

 

I agree on changing the fluid. I plan on doing so every 25,000 to 30,000.

Regarding this transmission in other vehicles - it may have the same base designation but that does not mean it has the same internal parts or load capacity. According to the transmission manager at the shop that rebuilt my unit the Mini version differed a great deal from the other versions he'd seen. He also pointed out that the transmissions on most cars have more extensive cooling than that of the Mini; he gave that as one of the reasons the fluid was so badly burned.

I found supporting info in a short blurb here: http://www.auto-repair-manuals.com/A...ld-Manual.html

"The Japanese company AISIN Co., LTD is the manufacturer and developer of the Front Wheel Drive TF60SN transaxle, which is a 6 speed, fully automatic and electronic controlled transaxle.

Volkswagen engineers were also involved, in conjunction with Aisin, in the development process for their vehicles and they gave it the 09G / 09M designation. BMW gave it the designation 6F21WA for their Mini-Cooper. The 09G / 09M transaxle is used in a wide variety of applications and engine sizes. As a result, the number of friction plates, planetary ratios, intermediate ratios and final drive ratios will vary depending on torque load requirements of the specific vehicle. The TF60SN transaxle uses a gear ratio sensitive system, requiring the correct transaxle interchange. The TF60-SN is used in the BMW Mini Cooper, Volkswagen and Audi vehicles. This transaxle is referred to as the TF60-SN, 09G, 09M, 6F21WA and in some overseas vehicles as 09K.

As a result there are a variety of different case and part configurations. Some of these units have the heat exchanger attached to the transmission while others use a remote heat exchanger. This alters the case, case cover and the valve body and if incorrect parts are used, severe planetary failure will occur. This manual covers these differences so that this mistake will not happen to you. The 09G/09M transaxle uses a Lepelletier gear set arrangement, using a simple planetary coupled with a Ravigneaux type planetary. This arrangement makes six forward speeds and reverse possible, with only five clutch packs and one freewheel."

So I'm still of the opinion that the version of the transmission in the Mini can't handle the load.

 

You might be right on the variants of this transmission. In which case, BMW did a poor job matching the tranny to the engine. But there's also the possibility of incorrect ATF fill at the factory. I've heard of over and under fill on VWs. Underfill will of course raise the operating temp and wear out and overheat the clutch packs faster.

 

As a result of reading this thread I have scheduled a transmission fluid change for my MCSa. It currently has 39,300 miles on it and I would rather play it safe.

 

Same exact problem as OP at 93K. Trying drain/fills to salvage. On 96K and problem is slightly better after 2 drain/fills. Hoping will improve with another one. What I don't understand is why it drives great cold, and is very slammy and barely moves when hot...

 

October 19, 2011

Who is responsible for a installing a bad transmission of the 05 Mini S - Mileage 96,652K?

Would it be the German engineering?

Would it be the dealer for not telling anyone and wanting only to make a sale? For now, when you talk to a Mini Salesman at the Dealer, he says, oh, yeah, its a known issue in the 05 & 06, yet Corporate Mini has not stepped forward to assist the idiot - Me who plopped down, $30,000 to buy a Mini Cooper S.

Why hasn't mini recalled this transmission?

Why hasn't someone higher up in the Car Manufacturing Division helped the consumer to resolve this issue from Corporate Mini?

I have the same issue as Sequoia....

2005 MC S Convertible with the auto steptronics bullsheet, only mine has 96,6550k miles on the clock and certainly not abused in the least either. The transmission fluid has never been changed.

Last november, 2010 the water pump had to be changed, and then shortly after the summer of 2011, these same symptoms started to appear on my mini.

It's been slipping occasionally between shifts for awhile.

A few times it has completely slipped between shifts for between three and eight seconds (just rev rev rev), mine too, !

It happens after I hit 3 rpm's and then worse at 4. mine too!

My problem still happens in SD or Manual mode. When it's slipping particularly bad (the long slip, lose all power start pulling over) it will not allow me to manually shift, it will lose all power pulling.

I also experience issues when everything is cold it acts just fine. Once the oil reaches normal operating temperature is where things start to go funny. If you get it a little extra-hot (not overheated, just after stop and go traffic or waiting for a train) is when it gets really bad. If I am in stop and go traffic, and the car comes to a complete "stop", it loses all pulling power and cannot move until I rev the car for 2 minutes and then it starts to move again.

I have not done much BECAUSE I AM A HELPLESS FEMALE (and right now, feeling pretty helpless at this issue) and when my lil mini breaks down, I am at the mercy of those who take advantage. I wish I had the ability to fix my car. I spent $30K on it, and yeah, I don't expect a transmission to go at 96,952K miles on a car that is babied, garage kept, and serviced regularly.

I took it to a transmission guy who states that he would drove it, and diagnosed it as a transmission problem, and it would cost $4,000 for the transmission and $2,000 for his labor (New York prices, I guess).

And that's if he can find a transmission to put in because he states that an over-haul or a rebuild will not resolve that gear slipage issue.

I would say, I am just as pissed as pretty pissed, as Sequoia, I have never abused the transmission, the car gets treated like royalty, and for it to be lasting 96652k is absolutely ridiculous on a $29,000 car.

I am so upset right now, I am besides myself. Who has another $29,000 to lend in this economy??

Does anyone have any ideas on what a poor helpless female from NY can do to resolve this issue?

Thanks for listening,

Mil2sell

 

@ mil2sell:

Yeah, extremely frustrating. Good luck finding any sympathy from MINIUSA or any dealer. They got your hard earned $$$ and could care less about you now. It's unfortunate, but a boat a lot of us find ourselves in. Hell, I'd fix your MINI for you, it's actually quite easy, but I'm in Georgia, and you wouldn't want to come down here from NY. My recommendation is try to find someone who knows how to work on cars and is honest, maybe a friend, friend's husband/boyfriend, etc. Have them read the ENTIRE thread linked below, and give your MINI its NEEDED ATF fluid change. That is generally all that's needed. Sure, you'll find LOTS of people who will tell you that you need a NEW Transmission and will charge you up to $10K, but this can be done for $250 and give you new life with your vehicle. It may be too late to salvage, but worth a try. Hope that helps...

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...change-10.html

 

I have a convertible 05 S 6sp auto. 39K miles. Tranny seems to be fine in D, fine in SD. I can shift it manually with the gearshift and it works fine. The paddles don't work right. When in D, the paddles will only downshift, not upshift regardless of RPM. When in SD, the paddles will only upshift and won't downshift at all. Both paddles behave the same way.

Is there a way to reset the software for the adaptive tranny (without a visit to the dealer)?

Has anyone had this issue, if so was there a fix?

Also, has anyone tried using an 'inlet pump' to flush all the tranny fluid in one shot? Unrelated to my question above, I did a proactive flush phase 1 yesterday. I got about 2.75 quarts out on the first pass. I'm planning to do 2 more, or if I can do it...an inlet flush so I can get it all in one shot with a new pan gasket and screen (i'm going with the VW kit for 1/5 the price).

BTW the tranny is the TF61-SN not the 60.

 

Car: 2005 MCSa
Mileage: 108,xxx
Trans: GA6F21WA

Our problems began right after we bought the car from the dealer. We bought it used with 103,xxx on it. The problem is hard shifting that occurs once the trans gets to running temp. When everything is cold its all good.

The problem is as follows
1st-2nd hard shift 2nd-3rd hard shift 3rd-4th ok 4th-5th ok 5th-6th ok

Now when I say hard shift I mean when its wet out it shifts hard enough to spin the tires and set off the ASC.

Down shift poses an issue as well being that down shifts can be brutual as well with the lower gears being the issue.

This afternoon I get in the car it had been sitting all day other being pulled out of the garage for me work on the other Cooper. I started it up and noticed a SES light and the characters "EP" in the gear selection display. So I go the logical route and pull the manual. I discovered that it is a transmission computer error code go figure. The SES light was obd II code P0700 which saud the sane thing as the "EP" code. I reset everything and got the code and SES to go a way. But the shifting problem still exists.

So the choices are:

Flush Fill, and reflash trans computer.

Replace transmission

Attach rocket launch into space and report it stolen by aliens.

 

Apparently ours are not isolated problems:

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20111214006452/en

LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--The national law firm of Baron and Budd, led by attorneys Roland Tellis and Mark Pifko, has filed a lawsuit against vehicle manufacturer BMW concerning safety issues and the company’s refusal to disclose its knowledge about premature automatic transmission failures in first generation Mini Coopers to consumers. Though the Mini Cooper was marketed as an affordable, yet stylish car with high performance features, the lawsuit alleges that BMW rushed the Mini Cooper to completion and, in doing so, the company cut corners, sacrificing safety and quality to maintain price targets, resulting in the installation of poor transmissions in first generation Mini Coopers.

“BMW marketed the Mini so aggressively that people were lining up to get their hands on one when they first hit the streets -some people waiting almost a year,” said Mark Pifko, attorney at Baron and Budd. “But what BMW promised with the Mini, a premium car for an unheard of price, was too good to be true. Sadly, over time, owners of the first generation Minis have found that their vehicles’ transmissions just don’t last. Given the safety concerns reported to the NHTSA, it’s particularly appalling that BMW has carelessly concealed this issue from the public. With a car that’s not much bigger than a golf cart, people need to know about the potential risks of transmission failure, which could leave them exposed to collisions, stuck in the middle of intersections, or suddenly without power to the wheels while at highway speeds.”

According to the lawsuit, BMW sacrificed quality to meet demand and keep prices low for the Mini Cooper. As a result, the company hastily churned out vehicles equipped with substandard parts and poor workmanship, which led to premature transmission failure. To fix the problem, consumers would need to spend up to one-half of the vehicle’s original retail price. Not only that, but transmissions can fail without warning, putting drivers and passengers at serious risk. Despite knowing about these issues, BMW concealed this information from the public.

Baron and Budd is a nationally recognized plaintiffs’ law firm with more than 30 years of experience fighting to protect what’s right for consumers. The firm prides itself on remaining on the cutting-edge of meaningful litigation that protects people from negligent companies. Earlier this year, Baron and Budd served on the Plaintiffs’ Steering Committee (PSC) in the Bank of America overdraft fee litigation that resulted in a $410 million settlement for consumers that forced Bank of America and many other financial institutions to change their overdraft fee policies. The firm is also involved in many other consumer issues, including online scams, deceptive food labeling, and other financial issues.

To learn more about the BMW Mini Cooper lawsuit, contact Baron and Budd at 1.866.844.4556 or visit the firm’s website: http://baronandbudd.com


Given what I went through with my car I wish Baron and Budd the best.

 

Why doesn't MINI just recommend tranny changes every 50k or so?

I found out the answer to that reaaaaal quick. A couple months ago I called MINI and asked how much to change the transmission fluid. After everything is added up it would be in the ballpark of about 500 dollars.

Now think what you want about the amount of money...but if you were considering a MINI and saw that maintenance coming down the pipeline along with oil changes, brake jobs, and tires....would you still buy a MINI?

I plan on changing the transmission fluid the next time I do the oil. However I might do it even earlier as this thread has freaked me out a bit.

For the people that think all other brands have transmissions that last longer than a MINI please google "Honda Odyssey". Or go to the link below...they have a site dedicated to the reliability of the Honda van transmission. Also, I had a Ford awhile back...Ford doesn't make the best of transmissions either.

http://www.odysseytransmission.com/

 

I too have an '05 MCSa (what's with the '05's?) having the exact same warm shifting issues described above. Mine only has around 68,000 miles.

Took it to the dealer to have it checked. They (and another shop I tried for a second opinion) could find no codes being thrown in the systems to indicate any problem. Hence, their conclusion was it needs to replaced. At 68,000 miles!
I had it flushed instead, which might have helped for a while, but is getting bad again.
Maddening.
Thanks for the link to Baron and Budd. I think Mini should fix this.

Anyway, solace in numbers I guess.
I think I'll not buy a BMW again; stick with Honda. (240K '97 CR-V with no problems)

 

I'm pretty sure that the transmission at issue in the Baron & Budd suit mentioned in post # 22 above is the CVT, not the Aisin 6-speed.