I've had a problem prone 2007 Mini Cooper S which is now in the dealer's shop after a major (potentially fatal) failure. Not being a mechanic, I'm really curious if I'm being potentially mislead.

The backstory: this car was bought new in '07, and since has had lots of nickel and dime problems, including: a clutch that went out fairly early on; electrical system faults; and weird sounds from the engine and to the right that were never diagnosed. I've struggled with the professionalism of the dealership, from hard selling an "extended service plan" that didn't actually cover repairs, to outright lying about labor and installation costs after selling a discounted accessory.

In January of this year, I got a tank of bad gas. Long and short of it was that the gas had high ethanol and water counts (per dealership and state analysis). The system was flushed and lots of money was spent to correct a bad idle as a result of the gas (the gas station refused to pony up; by the time the state inspected their tanks, they got a new load in). The idling issue- which felt to me like spark plugs misfiring or fuel filter- continued on. The service department said that it would take $1000 to $2000 to *diagnose* the problem, let alone fix it. They said that I could indefinitely drive it until I began to notice changes in performance at higher speeds (even with check engine light on), at which point I'd have to get the engine taken apart to correct the issue. I used fuel injector cleaner additives regularly, and the idle remained but only when at a stop. The weird engine noises referenced above continued unabated and I was trying to save up for the eventual service.

Last week, I went to start it, and no dice. There was a strong electrical smell and every warning light lit up in sequence. I naturally expected this to just be another weird electrical issue. The car got towed down (80 miles to the closest dealer) and I waited. Today they called and said the timing belt slipped off, and that the tensioner failed as an end result of the bad gas (somehow effecting the oil). To repair this falls around $5000 (and I owe more on the car than its trade-in value, so I'm screwed as far as getting out of the car). I called a tech who lives in my area for also works on Minis and he said that there had been a recall on timing belts and other front end issues in the recent past. I confronted the service department with this and they said it was a "service bulletin," and the responsibility falls on me for getting the bad gas, as if I did that intentionally. They say that they are in a "gray area" of responsibility but that the repairs fall outside my extended service plan anyway, so it's my five grand to shell out. When I asked them how this could have been prevented, they came up blank and hurried off the phone. They offer no financing on major repairs, no installment plans, and this is way beyond my affordability; times changed a lot since I first got he car. Mileage is 77k.

So I need some advice on how to proceed, being a novice in mechanic-speak and also smelling a potential rat. A friend informed me that a tensioner has no relationship to the fuel system... so I'm obviously suspicious. If this were your car, what approach would you take with the dealership? Is there any connection between the bad gas and the tensioner? Does the "service bulletin" throw enough of a red flag to legally question ultimate responsibility (manufacturing defect versus owner fault)?

Thanks in advance for your help. I'm gobsmacked and missing the car I've loved and struggled with for three years.

 

You need to call Mini customer service at your earliest opportunity.

 

You're screwed........unless MINI can be convinced to step in and help, and since you're way past the warranty on mileage, they can simply refuse.

However, I'm not buying the bad gas scenario.....

What you had all along was a failed tensioner - your constant reference to wierd sounds from the right side of the engine tells me this, and the fact that the chain (not belt) just fell off means it was worn so badly (due to the bad tensioner) that it did indeed just fall off. But before it did, it wreaked all sorts of havoc to the insides of your motor. I would not be surprised that it's also been causing your bad idle....

Have you changed your oil regularly and do you have rec'ts to prove it? That may be your only saving grace here.

Good luck and keep us apprised of what happens - and call MINI USA - Now!

Tell them your engine failed because the dealer could not diagnose a bad chain tensioner in time - you may get someone's attention with that since they've replaced more than a few motors for this problem already.....

 

Mini USA was of no help, unfortunately. They said there were previous service tickets related to shaking as the result of low or poor quality oil from "between July '08 and January '10" that I'd never heard of. At all. Sounded downright fictitious or like someone else's car (I'm very diligent when it comes to fluids) . The only oil that ever touched that car was from from their dealership. On those grounds "because of external factors" there was nothing they could do to help, referring me back to the dealer. I'm really wanting to go public with the dealer's name at this point...

I spoke with a Mini certified tech, saying that he had the service bulletin for my exact model with the exact fix right in front of him. The dealer's mechanics obviously don't read them and this now leads to my car being toast. I'm at a loss as what to do next, any tips would be highly appreciated.

 

Low or poor quality oil????????

Meaning that the dealer found you were low on oil when you came in to have other work done and topped it off?

And if the oil was "poor quality", did they change it? Or offer to?

I think you're toast here, sorry to say.....

But you're right about one thing, they knew you had a chain tensioner problem and how to fix it (and should have!) but didn't on the grounds that they couldn't duplicate the noise, and that's total BS.

Good luck with this, I'm not normally one to suggest getting a lawyer, but I wonder if this might not be a time/place to consider one....even so, I think you'll have a tough road here getting them to step up and fix it for you.

I'm unaware of a "a recall on timing belts and other front end issues in the recent past". I think either you misunderstood what your techie friend was saying or he's got it wrong. There are service bulletins out detailing the steps to take on certain things.....

 

Dude, listen to me: this dealership is taking you for a nasty ride. They are dishonest. That whole "bad gas" and now the "bad oil" thing is 100% garbage. They drained the bad gas from your car and the thing still was bad. Bad dishonest dealers play the bad gas card as long as you will eat it. From reading many many stories about problem Minis on this forum for 3 years I can tell you that Mini USA is not your friend either. They do nothing. You need a lawyer IMO. Otherwise you're hosed. Repeat to yourself: "this dealership is a bunch of lying crooks". Because they are.

 

Get all your ducks in a row and call a lawyer.And there was no recall, but lots of service bullitins. Timing chains don't just "fall off" without failure of the tensioner and timing gears. You are being taken for a ride.

Good luck and keep us posted.....

Matt

 

+1

I'll be willing to bet if you have a lawyer draw up a letter threatening to sue, they'll go ahead and fix this. It is NOT bad gas!

 

If Mini was of no help, you should seek legal counsel. The reason they keep getting by with stuff like this is that no one takes them on. I really believe that a good attorney would prevail on this. You may also want to contact your state attorney general's office to see if they have a consumer advocate who could also help.

 

You need to calmly research the issue and prepare a service history of your mini. I'll heed to others responses that your timing chain failed due to a bad tensioner and that the dealer misdiagnosed your problem, or worse intentionally misdiagnosed your problem to avoid the repair. The bad tensioner is very well known issue with the 07 on S. Get every reciept together from your service history and document what and when something was done. I would accumulate all your reciepts, then ask the dealer to provide you with their history and see if they agree, and ask the dealer why they don't if that is the case. Once you've done that PM me and I'll refer you the name of an internal Mini corporate person (avoiding useless MINI USA), and maybe he can help. I went this route with a wierd idle problem, and got the bad gas card played from the dealer. Oddly, in my case it may acetually have been bad gas. ( I don't have a S so not subject to the tensioner problem of the S). The corporate guy sent me three bottles of fuel injection cleaner, I ran those through about every 1000 miles and haven't had the problem since (about 3 years ago). He also helped me with a 200 overcharge on my mini purchase and got that refunded. You might try that before an attorney.

Your chances aren't good, you are out of warranty. Your only hope is that your dealer misdiagnosed the idle noise and didn't recognize it as the well known tensioner problem. If you can get them to buy that and your service records back that premise up, then you have a chance with Mini Corporate. You need to be knowledgeable about the cause and effect and get a tech to help you draft a letter to them pointing out the faulty logic of the dealer and miniusa. If the coporate route fails then the attorney is the next step. (I'd understand if you skipped the MINI route and went straight to an attorney, either way you still need to prepare you history and understand the failure. They are preying on your lack of knowledge.

If you have to eventually pony up and pay for the fix, I'd recommend a different dealer and make your current dealer aware of your lack of trust in his ability to provide able service and repair.

Its stories like this that make me wonder why I drive a Mini sometimes. I've been blessed with the one problem that was easily corrected and other than that the car is flawless. Of course it's stories like yours, which is why I still have my trusted old Honda CR-V. I had a tie rod failure out of warranty in my CR-V, about 25,000 miles out of warranty. The dealer said "wow, that shouldn't have happened!! We'll do it for free anyway!!!" That is a response you'll never get from Mini.

 

only thing I'd change is if you DO have to foot the bill, find a locally owned independant shop that works on Minis to do the work. Dealerships are typically high dollar for the work that they do, and lots of dealerships don't warrant patronage at that cost because you can get EXCELLENT help elsewhere for less.

Matt

 

Most (not all) MINI dealers, I am sorry to say, are like most other car dealers. And that ain't good. The first few times I had my car serviced at the dealer I received a survey. After expressing dissatisfaction in the surveys, they solved my customer satisfaction issues by ...... not sending me any more surveys after I have service!

Look, I love my MINI for its performance, but you have to accept that the car is unreliable. Honda can afford to be more generous in special post-warranty situations because they aren't spending thousands of dollars per vehicle doing repairs during the warranty period.

 

I am so glad my dealer is so great... Plus if I have an issue several of the dealers techs are members of the local MINI club as well so I know them personally. It makes service time much nicer thats for sure.

Have you considered the local MINI club if there is one? Maybe they have some access to the dealer that could help?

Have you complained to the owner of the dealership? I did that once when I had a Ford dealer jerk me around on work they promised (was warranty they said right up till it wasnt done at all)so they could do some other work under a hail damage claim.I went all the way to the head of the service manager and even called Ford too and got jack ****... Happened to find the owners email. One polite letter explaining the situation and how it would affect my future relations with them and that I would tell everyone I knew about it got me a call quick from the service people... Maybe that would help you too?

Above all be nice if you try this route. The owner probably has no idea that you and your issue even exists atm so it will help you to be calm and reasonable in your comunication with him I might actually try this route before getting legal counsel but I agree with others here that you are getting jerked around about this. At bare minimum you should be "good willed" the repair if you have all your service history up to date.

 

Normally in his case I'd agree, but given the problem is the timing chain cam tensioner, with numerous fix attempts from BMW/MINI (3 now I think the last one nailing it I think), it may be problematic in finding an independent guy who knows the correct procedure, can do it, and will back up his work. For this repair unfortunately the dealer may be the best option to avoid the death rattle occurring again. It is worth a few phone calls and visits to some independent dealers to see. If not a different dealer than the one the OP is dealing with is in order.

I'm fortunate to have a good dealer (Nashville) and feel comfortable in going to them and what they tell me.

 

Kind of off topic, but the sound to the right might be a transmission mount that needs to be replaced, my dealer did so under warranty. I had the same noise, sort of a "clunk" coming from it?

 

Given that the car is currently in the shop with a destroyed engine and a timing chain that "just fell off", I feel safe in saying the noise the OP heard was the failing tensioner....

 

I have a Nov. production '07 S and three weeks ago damn near same thing happened to me. The tensioner was GONE, and belt broke. Had it towed, belt replaced, new tensioner and I had my car back 8 hours later. Dealer said it had nothing to do with "bad gas" or anything of the sort, said "sh*t happens and that's why its warrantied" Best of luck bud!

 

I would go the lawyer route! There are perfectly ok with playing hard ball with you and I'm sure many others. In the end, they would rather spend $5000 (actually much less to them) to fix your car and not risk public humiliation then spend >$5K on laywer fees. Just get your records organized and story straight - Good luck.

 

As far as the gas goes, I generally pay a few pennies more per gallon for 93 octane gas at the Shell station near me then risk getting bad or questionable quality gas at the closer (and cheaper) local grocery store. I'm not saying that was your problem, but it just (more) insurance against potential issues.

 

For the record they should have given you a sample if it was really "bad gas". Thats what mini of towson did for me, My tank had ALOT of water and i drove it home five miles on that from the exxon station and couldn't get it started. Towed, cleaned tank and new plugs. Never had a prob since. By the way if anyone gets a bad tank on a auto put it into manual to drive, my car was going nuts trying new shift points lol...

 

The OP seems to have bailed............

 

I've been slammed with other things going on besides the Mini. You all have given me some great direction with this, and I'm calling a lawyer tomorrow, and the owner of the dealership. As for having a spare $5k to get it fixed, it's not that easy. But I love my Mini, but the experience of interacting with Mini/BMW, not so much. I hope to get her back eventually, and to post on this board not in dire need, but for the love of a great brand which seems to have gone awry from its origins. Thanks again for your feedback!
Cheers!

 

Hello,
New to the forum. I have a 2007 Mini Cooper S (on lease). It's had electrical problems in the past, but other than that really no major issues until last weekend. I experienced the now known knock associated w/ the tensioner (saw it on YouTube, same exact noise) to I parked the car, tried to restart it, wouldn't start. Had it towed to the nearest dealership and they said - timing chain jumped, took out the valves. Best thing is, now they are saying that because I didn't get a preventative maintenance level 1 done at 25000 miles (the car was fully serviced at 16000 miles and the indicator hadn't indicated a needed service again until 36000 miles) that they've voided the warranty. I had the service performed 3 weeks ago (when the car was acting just fine), but they aren't standing behind the fact that 3 weeks ago the car checked out fine- but it's suddenly my negligence because I missed some myserious preventative maintenance that I knew nothing about (this all comes from Mini USA that I called after the dealer said they were sorry but couldn't get it covered under warranty). The dealer proclaims to have never heard of this level 1 preventative maintenance either. So, now I have a dead leased car that of course they won't end my lease for and looking at a $5k repair bill. Any suggestions?

 

Does the dealership know that this isn't a 2 stroke? Whether the gas was good or bad, what does the ingestion of fuel have to do with oil?

If the gas was good, does that mean it would have mixed with the oil correctly and not created a problem? WTF?

Hope you get it fixed soon.

Good luck with the dealer, sounds like you have a winner.



Mark

 

Just had the timing chain replaced on my 07 CooperS, at 12,513k. I'd noticed a noise at start-up in the mornings, thought it was a loose muffler or exhaust pipe.. The noise was a rattle, sounded like a diesel when started cold. Luckily, the vehicle is still under warranty.
Strange, though, that no indicator came on to let me know of this problem AND, what "service bulletins"? Is there a site where one can go to see these?