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I hate to make this my first post on the forums, but I need some help.
My fiance purchased a 2009 Mini Cooper S almost exactly one year ago. It currently has about 14,000 miles. Today on her way to work the car broke down and from what the dealership says it looks like her clutch failed. They are telling her that clutches are a "normal wear item" and therefore the repair won't be covered under warranty.
I know clutches wear out eventually, however it's insane to think that an OEM clutch should wear out after 14k of highway commuting. We have never had issues with the car before today, it's been perfect. From my experience, one can usually feel a clutch wearing out well in advance of outright failure. They have yet to tell me exactly what part failed, so I don't know if it's the pressure plate/ throwout bearing etc...
Has anyone else has this type of issue? If so, were you able to get it warrantied? Up until today we loved the whole Mini experience but now I'm pretty pissed off at this dealership.
Have had clutches replaced under warranty on both of my MINI's...
Just had my clutch replaced at 25k miles...under warranty.
This is a very dealer dependent thing, if they will warranty it or not. If the clutch is simply worn out...and they see no other signs of damage, they might not warranty it. But, if they see any part of it failed...throwout bearing or pressure plate like you say, theres no reason why it should not be replaced under warranty. Throwout bearing failure is a common problem on MINI's...as they are complete junk on these cars.
Goodluck fighting with them...if you bug them/convince them enough you might get them to do it as a "one time, goodwill" repair under warranty.
__________________ 2006 MINI Cooper S JCW GP--GP#1599 -Stock...I think?? 2008 MINI Cooper S R56--Astro Black/White--Gone -JCW Turbo | Aquamist HFS-3 Meth injection | RMW AP Tune | Helix FMIC | DDM CAI | Riss Racing Catless DP+Invidia Exhaust
I don't understand why a dealer would refuse this as a warranty repair, unless MINI is in the habit of making it really difficult for them to get reimbursed. I cannot imagine a clutch wearing out at 14k under normal wear and tear. That's just crazy.
I am sure there are shady dealers out there who try to get customers to pay out of pocket for warranty items because they can charge a higher labor rate and parts markup that way. Of course we all like to think none of the nasties work at MINI dealerships, but...
You really shouldn't have to use up a "one time goodwill" offering for this, although you might have to. But I would push hard (but civilly) for repair under warranty instead. Even talk to the person who submits the warranty claims if necessary and see if they have some insight. (That person is not usually the MA or the service tech -- usually it's either a dedicated warranty processor or accounts clerk.)
If the dealer won't play ball, I'd try another dealership (if possible). You can also try calling 866-ASK-MINI if all else fails. If I may ask, what dealer are you working with?
Under their extended MAINTENANCE plan that you can buy they will replace the clutch one time only between 36k and 100k miles. There are theads on the website about this. The plan costs about1700.00 and covers brake replacements as well.
while I can understand why the dealer would say this is not a warranty issue, why isn't it covered under the pre-paid maintenance (no, I will NOT say free maintenance)?
Maintenance covers wear items for 3 years . . .
You don't say where you are but it appears the dealership is not being fully up and the question is why - they get paid by MINI for this type of work so why do they push back???? I dunno.
For reference I had 98,000 plus on my 02 when I sold it (bought new off the lot) and the clutch was a good as the day I first drove it . . . the clutch isn't weak . . . well, at least not so far as the way I treated it. I've a GEN2 now btw w/20,000 plus and the clutch is fine . . .
Ask why it isn't covered under MAINTENANCE . . .hmm crossed posts...does maint' plan have restrictions on clutch replacement? I dunno . . . never been there but I guess it is time to read the fine print.
Hmmm previous post refers to 'extended plans' what about the basic/included plan?????
I find it hard to believe that the brakes and rotors are covered,but the clutch would not be covered. All three are wear and tear items, and MINI even advertises the brakes and rotors as being covered. Maybe it depends from dealer to dealer, because when a colleague of mine went to test drive a Cooper S, the m.a. told him that tires were covered. I was arguing with him that they are not, but he told me that's what she (the m.a.) told him.
Thanks for the quick responses, this is why I love forums.
I agree with what everyone else said. Everything is supposed to be covered for the first 3 years, 36,000 miles. They even give us washer fluid if we stop by. This is part of the reason we went with the Mini Cooper. All things considered, we paid close to $30K for what is essentially an economy car. I'm OK with that because we love the car, but Mini owners pay a premium price because it's expected we are recieving a premium product and service.
I can understand if we had abused the car, they would have every right to deny the claim, however this is anything but the case. My fiance is even afraid to rev it past 4k because "it sounds like it's hurting the car."
I didn't post the name of the dealership right away because I don't want to hurt their reputation unless they really try to screw me. I'm not out for revenge (yet) so I want to at least give them time to do the right thing. For what it's worth, I live in Connecticut so that narrows it down a little.
They've now told us that they won't have time to fully diagnose it until Monday, which means I'm also stuck with a rental bill if they decide not to cover it (they were out of loaners.)
In my short time following this site, I've read about WAY too many premature clutch failures. It's clear as a bell that MINI is putting inferior clutches into these cars. And I suspect that all the stealership service departments know it and would agree, based on how many they must be replacing. It's one thing for some young kid to bring in his "first" car, that shows signs of being abused/driven hard, and the kid has never driven a car with a stick before - and quite another when it's an adult-driven car owned by someone who's been driving manual tranny cars for decades. In the latter scenario, a clutch should be good for 100k miles and beyond. Failing at something ridiculous like 14k is CLEARLY a defect. Don't stand still for the warranty denial!
__________________
'10 MCS "Jethro". All PW, aero kit, carbon black lounge leather, anthracite h/l, Cream White c/l, convenience, cold weather, xenon, rear fogs, nav, h/k sound, white turns, H&R touring cup kit, BBS LM's (aka "Let's Motor"), Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2's. '07 Z4M Coupe, bone stock.
+1 for it being covered by the maintenance agreement. If it's a wear item, then it should be covered just like windshield wipers.
Agreed, but here's where it can get sticky - they may claim that it SHOULD have lasted much longer, therefore the early failure must be due to "abuse", therefore it's not covered. Ridiculous, but that's the card they will probably try to play.
__________________
'10 MCS "Jethro". All PW, aero kit, carbon black lounge leather, anthracite h/l, Cream White c/l, convenience, cold weather, xenon, rear fogs, nav, h/k sound, white turns, H&R touring cup kit, BBS LM's (aka "Let's Motor"), Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2's. '07 Z4M Coupe, bone stock.
Agreed, but here's where it can get sticky - they may claim that it SHOULD have lasted much longer, therefore the early failure must be due to "abuse", therefore it's not covered. Ridiculous, but that's the card they will probably try to play.
... to which I would come right back and say, "Damn skippy it should have lasted longer -- that's why it's covered under a 4 year warranty."
Good point to all about the 3/36 maintenance -- I forgot about that entirely. The car's only a year old -- one way or the other this ought to get covered.
Agreed, but here's where it can get sticky - they may claim that it SHOULD have lasted much longer, therefore the early failure must be due to "abuse", therefore it's not covered. Ridiculous, but that's the card they will probably try to play.
Wouldn't they have to prove abuse?
__________________ mike roberts co-founder stlmini | formerly president, currently apathetic blue d3mon:78 austin mini | cash:07 MCS JCW
We need to get somebody at MINI corporate monitoring this site for this exact kind of customer service issue.
At Bimmerfest, BMW people monitor and will jump in and contact a customer directly if they're complaining about an issue that's festering at the dealership level. It's happened a whole bunch of times.
At vwvortex.com, arguably THE biggest and "most connected" enthusiast site on the net, with a CRAZY number members and massive forum participation, VWoA monitors activity closely, and the webmaster is actually a paid VWoA consultant and is EXTREMELY well-connected. When they launched the 25th Anniversary GTI in 2003, they chose the colors by a poll taken on the site and used them exactly as voted. He gets inside info (the kind they want to release) before other sources and can be counted on for accurate info. This site is great, and seems to be the #1 Mini site in the USA, but doesn't seem to have either of these type of connections. I wonder how we might go about getting some regular monitoring from the Mini folks in New Jersey? Perhaps they are, but if so they don't seem to be interacting with anyone.
__________________
'10 MCS "Jethro". All PW, aero kit, carbon black lounge leather, anthracite h/l, Cream White c/l, convenience, cold weather, xenon, rear fogs, nav, h/k sound, white turns, H&R touring cup kit, BBS LM's (aka "Let's Motor"), Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2's. '07 Z4M Coupe, bone stock.
We need to get somebody at MINI corporate monitoring this site for this exact kind of customer service issue.
At Bimmerfest, BMW people monitor and will jump in and contact a customer directly if they're complaining about an issue that's festering at the dealership level. It's happened a whole bunch of times.
At vwvortex.com, arguably THE biggest and "most connected" enthusiast site on the net, with a CRAZY number members and massive forum participation, VWoA monitors activity closely, and the webmaster is actually a paid VWoA consultant and is EXTREMELY well-connected. When they launched the 25th Anniversary GTI in 2003, they chose the colors by a poll taken on the site and used them exactly as voted. He gets inside info (the kind they want to release) before other sources and can be counted on for accurate info. This site is great, and seems to be the #1 Mini site in the USA, but doesn't seem to have either of these type of connections. I wonder how we might go about getting some regular monitoring from the Mini folks in New Jersey? Perhaps they are, but if so they don't seem to be interacting with anyone.
I agree, although I wonder if Mini Corporate is interested in fixing the issue. In the end it comes down to the $$$. If anyone else has had a clutch fail prematurely, I hope they chime in on this thread.
1. The extended maint plan costs 1395. See sticky
2. BMW does monitor this forum. I have been contacted directly by mini corporate via the forum
__________________ "Hailey" my 09 MCS - Horizon Blue -Premium/Sports/Cold Weather Package, Bluetooth/iPod and Piano Black
Mods: Lumbar Retrofit, 4" Alta Antenna, Chrome Black Out, Craven Speed iPhone Mount, Alta Intake & AccessPort
Planned Mods: Alta Cat Back Exhaust, Oil Catch Can, JCW Steering Wheel...
jeez here we go again-- because they are part of the drivetrain, clutches and flywheels are covered under the car's 4/50 b-b oem warranty--end of discussion. any dealer that tells you otherwise is trying to stonewall you into guilt that it was somehow yr fault their crappy clutch failed on you. If a dealer does this, do an end-around to MINI corporate and raise what I call "courteous" hell. It usually works.
It's almost like the dealers are under some kind of corporate directive to resist warranty work on defective and failed clutches, of which BMW has a long history. My dealer, however, always gives the customer the benefit of the doubt the first time, and will do a courtesy replacement of the whole system: clutch, dmf, master cylinder, which runs about $3K.
I had so many clutch problems with my 05, and each and every time the dealer stepped up to plate and delivered. But it got so bad--coupled with other problems--I traded it in for an 09 MCS auto and could not be happier. And Im a die-hard manual guy.
OP good luck and keep us posted. Fight the power!
__________________ I say, boy, you dont seem to be apprehendin' the general gist of what I'm tryin' to convey here. Maybe you oughta take a second, let your head catch up to your tongue before it gets all sunburnt. That was a joke, son, I say - a joke! Nice boy, but he's about as sharp as a sack o' wet mice.
I would not have bought my Mini if I saw this post. I have had bad experiences with both BMW and MB regarding them covering bad product.
I will never own either one again. I hope Mini steps up. Ask to get the zone rep involved. That is his job. If not go above his head. You might have to get ugly. Chase a few custopmers off with your great service story on a new car. If that does not get there attention I would protest the dealership with signs. Stay on public property and there is nothing they can do. Btter yet park the Mini with signs in the window out front on the street. 09 Mini clutch
out and Mini refuses to repair! Hit them in the pocket book is the only thing they understand. I had a 350SLK from Phil Smart MB in Seattle Burned a qrt of oil every 500 miles and smoked like a diesel. MB said it was within spec.
I finally got above the zone rep and MB replaced the car. I was going to protest the other MB dealer in the area after mine closed. MB did not want to have to explain to that dealer why I was unhappy with MB and there customer service. They replaced it and laid off the guy at corp. that took care of me. I will never buy another MB period. I feel the same for BMW.
Germans never built anything wrong if you talk to them. I was worried MINI operated the same way and that looks that way. Good luck and keep us posted. Turn them over to your state Attorney General. Not taking care of therearranties. They love stuff like this. No one likes the state on there back because they are all looking for easy money. Most likely just an
Ahole service manager. Go up the food chain. Try nice and reasonable to start and go ugly if they make you. Good luck. Post there phone number for everyone. We all start calling them asking about clutch warranties just jerking there chain. Would be lots of fun. Lets use the power of the forum to get results. Give them a reasonable attempt to correct the problem then
tell them your next move if they refuse. Then its game on and through them under the bus. Keep us posted.
__________________
2011 JCW 6 spd, Midnight Blk with matching Roof and Mirrors, Blk pleather, 17" Cross Spoke Blk Alloy's ,Piano Black Int,Chrome line Int,Heated seats, Auto AC, Premium Pack,Sun Roof,Arm Rest, HK Sound, Wht turn Sigs,Xenon adaptive headlights w/washers,Rain Sensor wipers/Auto headlamps,Mini Connect- Mod- Murdered out, Flat blk viper stripes w/red pin, Full Bra, Konig
ECO 1 wheels, Nitto NTO1 R comp tires, Carbontech X10's front and X-8 Rears.
jeez here we go again-- because they are part of the drivetrain, clutches and flywheels are covered under the car's 4/50 b-b oem warranty--end of discussion. any dealer that tells you otherwise is trying to stonewall you into guilt that it was somehow yr fault their crappy clutch failed on you. If a dealer does this, do an end-around to MINI corporate and raise what I call "courteous" hell. It usually works.
A clutch is a wearable component, unlike the rest of the drivetrain. It gets tricky because this part has two different types of coverage:
if it fails because of a mechanical/design failure, it is considered a defective part and covered by the 4 yr/50k mile new car warranty.
if it fails because it wears out from normal use, that is considered normal wear and tear and it would only be covered by the Full Maintenance plan, either the 3 yr/36k mile that comes standard or the 6 yr/100k mile extension that you can buy through a dealer.
if it fails because of abuse (which really can not be determined until they can actually look at the clutch), this is not covered under either the warranty or maintenance plan.
I worked for a BMW/MINI dealership for several years and saw some of these cases, so this is from experience and not just my random guess about what is and what is not covered.
__________________ 2011 BMW 335xi Coupe -- LeMans Blue/Black Leather
2009 MINI Cooper S w/ JCW Tuning Kit -- Dark Silver/Black Leather -- retired
2006 BMW M Roadster -- Interlagos Blue/Black Leather -- retired
I would not have bought my Mini if I saw this post. I have had bad experiences with both BMW and MB regarding them covering bad product.
I will never own either one again. I hope Mini steps up. Ask to get the zone rep involved. That is his job. If not go above his head. You might have to get ugly. Chase a few custopmers off with your great service story on a new car. If that does not get there attention I would protest the dealership with signs. Stay on public property and there is nothing they can do. Btter yet park the Mini with signs in the window out front on the street. 09 Mini clutch
out and Mini refuses to repair! Hit them in the pocket book is the only thing they understand. I had a 350SLK from Phil Smart MB in Seattle Burned a qrt of oil every 500 miles and smoked like a diesel. MB said it was within spec.
I finally got above the zone rep and MB replaced the car. I was going to protest the other MB dealer in the area after mine closed. MB did not want to have to explain to that dealer why I was unhappy with MB and there customer service. They replaced it and laid off the guy at corp. that took care of me. I will never buy another MB period. I feel the same for BMW.
Germans never built anything wrong if you talk to them. I was worried MINI operated the same way and that looks that way. Good luck and keep us posted. Turn them over to your state Attorney General. Not taking care of therearranties. They love stuff like this. No one likes the state on there back because they are all looking for easy money. Most likely just an
Ahole service manager. Go up the food chain. Try nice and reasonable to start and go ugly if they make you. Good luck. Post there phone number for everyone. We all start calling them asking about clutch warranties just jerking there chain. Would be lots of fun. Lets use the power of the forum to get results. Give them a reasonable attempt to correct the problem then
tell them your next move if they refuse. Then its game on and through them under the bus. Keep us posted.
Wow....
Turn them in to the state attorney general cuz they won't cover a clutch under warranty? Protest and stand out there with signs? I really hope your post is in jest...cuz if not you are ridiculous.
Everyone blames the dealer, however you can blame BMW/MINI corporate when it comes to how much of a pain in the ass warranty stuff is. The dealer has no problem warrantying stuff as long as MINI is going to pay them. If the dealer sends MINI your clutch...which they have to when its replaced under warranty, and MINI denies the claim....they are up the creek $3,000. Now, in any other business...you guys would understand this, however since its a terrible horrible mean car dealer, you think its ok for them to take a $3,000 loss.
A dealers hands are pretty tied when it comes to warranty stuff. There is A LOT they can't do at their discretion because of the OEM and unfortunately it hurts their CSI. Which is funny, cuz then BMW/MINI will get on them for poor CSI, when in fact the whole thing could have been avoided if BMW/MINI wasn't so stringent on warranty claims.
__________________ 2006 MINI Cooper S JCW GP--GP#1599 -Stock...I think?? 2008 MINI Cooper S R56--Astro Black/White--Gone -JCW Turbo | Aquamist HFS-3 Meth injection | RMW AP Tune | Helix FMIC | DDM CAI | Riss Racing Catless DP+Invidia Exhaust
Last edited by ThumperMCS; 11-21-2009 at 01:10 PM.
A dealers hands are pretty tied when it comes to warranty stuff. There is A LOT they can't do at their discretion because of the OEM and unfortunately it hurts their CSI. Which is funny, cuz then BMW/MINI will get on them for poor CSI, when in fact the whole thing could have been avoided if BMW/MINI wasn't so stringent on warranty claims.
Good points. But... there are basically two different possibilities here. At 14k miles, a clutch failure is probably not caused from normal wear, it is made to last considerably longer if used properly. At this mileage, the cause is either a defective component (manufacturing issue?) or user error (so called "abuse" or improper operation). I don't want to jump to conclusions here, but hopefully everyone understands why one of those situations WOULD be covered and why one WOULD NOT be.
Like you mentioned, the dealer can't just close their eyes and cover it if it is the result of user error (once again, just discussing the alternatives... not jumping to conclusions)... they have to send the old part back to BMWNA and it is pretty easy to identify a clutch that was cooked which will result in the warranty claim being denied and the dealer having to explain why they tried to sneak that one in.
__________________ 2011 BMW 335xi Coupe -- LeMans Blue/Black Leather
2009 MINI Cooper S w/ JCW Tuning Kit -- Dark Silver/Black Leather -- retired
2006 BMW M Roadster -- Interlagos Blue/Black Leather -- retired
I am totally serious. AG that is there job they love to look into BMW or anyone with deep pockets that is scamming the consumer. They would have to prove the clutch was abused in someway. The car is a brand new 09 and should be cover under the warranty or the Mat. agreement. I would picket that dealer in a minute. That car should be covered unless they can prove the car was raced on a ciruit or abused. Or they are selling crap. You start costing them money Mini and the dealer will figure out a way to make go away believe me. The dealer who sells the car needs to help his customer. I have been down this road, it works fine. They can do it the easy way or the hard way. If you do not think an AG offfice woudl get involved you need to wake up. Fill out the form and they have to follow up on it. It is very simple and free. Your tax dollars at work it is a great thing. Just because they tell you it is not covered does not meanit is not covered. Most people just say ok and that is what they are banking on. Chase off a few potential customers to get there attention. It will.
__________________
2011 JCW 6 spd, Midnight Blk with matching Roof and Mirrors, Blk pleather, 17" Cross Spoke Blk Alloy's ,Piano Black Int,Chrome line Int,Heated seats, Auto AC, Premium Pack,Sun Roof,Arm Rest, HK Sound, Wht turn Sigs,Xenon adaptive headlights w/washers,Rain Sensor wipers/Auto headlamps,Mini Connect- Mod- Murdered out, Flat blk viper stripes w/red pin, Full Bra, Konig
ECO 1 wheels, Nitto NTO1 R comp tires, Carbontech X10's front and X-8 Rears.
I don't know of any car manufacturer which covers brake pads or clutch discs under warranty (maybe Rolls Royce?), unless they are defective. They wear out depending on how (and how much) you use them.
Throwout bearing failure is a common problem on MINI's...as they are complete junk on these cars.
Good to know. My wife's MCS started acting weird. I initially thought it is a problem of DMF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC
At vwvortex.com, arguably THE biggest and "most connected" enthusiast site on the net, with a CRAZY number members and massive forum participation, VWoA monitors activity closely, and the webmaster is actually a paid VWoA consultant and is EXTREMELY well-connected.
'79; 02 S {02 - 09}, 07 S
because they are part of the drivetrain, clutches and flywheels are covered under the car's 4/50 b-b oem warranty--end of discussion. any dealer that tells you otherwise is trying to stonewall you into guilt that it was somehow yr fault their crappy clutch failed on you. If a dealer does this, do an end-around to MINI corporate and raise what I call "courteous" hell. It usually works. 
I say, boy, you dont seem to be apprehendin' the general gist of what I'm tryin' to convey here. Maybe you oughta take a second, let your head catch up to your tongue before it gets all sunburnt. That was a joke, son, I say - a joke! Nice boy, but he's about as sharp as a sack o' wet mice.
