My Mini Gets Morning Sickness

UA777222 · #1 11-19-2009, 12:38 AM

My 09 MCS purchased from South Bay Mini in June with just under 7,000 miles has been having a few issues in the mornings when I first fire her up to leave for the day.

As winters has kicked into full season here in Norcal, the mornings have become increasingly colder, at or just under 37* well into the 7am hour.

Anyways, when I leave for the day, I go to start/warm up and the car starts fine. However, almost immediately after, the RPM's start to shake up and as they make their down way down to 1,000, she just quits.

It then either does it again or will start on the next try, but I've never had this issue in the time I've driven the car--and I've left at all hours in most temperatures. This is the first time though, where it has been consistently cold for any period of time.

Also, while it prodominately happens in the morning, I left a little later yesterday (about 9am) and it was about 65 and it did the same thing again.

Anyone else have this experience?

I don't want to take it down to the shop if it doesn't need it or has an easy explanation, given that it spent some time for the cosmoline over the summer.

Thanks for any feedback.

brightwhite · #2 11-19-2009, 04:20 AM

Mine does the same thing on cold mornings, but it doesn't die, it just stutters for about 15 seconds and then it runs fine. If I catch it just as it starts and rev the engine, it stops doing it.

Very weird.

rdmini06 · #3 11-19-2009, 06:39 AM

Same here but doesn't die.

RVExotics · #4 11-19-2009, 06:43 AM

If mine did that I'd be on the way to the dealer asap. It should never idle down low enough to kill it. Keep us apprised.

Flyinace2000 · #5 11-19-2009, 07:54 AM

Was it like this?

http://vimeo.com/5729061

If so it was my High Pressur Fuel Pump failing.

strobeyprobey · #6 11-19-2009, 10:51 AM

Last winter in the -30s°F here in MN it would start and continue to run fine (as decent cars should). There is something wrong with your car! I have on two occasions (with in day) last summer (mid 70s) where on a warm start immediately after cranking I put the auto in reverse the car stalled. Never has happened again (or even stumbled), I suppose it must have been bad gas.

nicknbecka · #7 11-19-2009, 04:06 PM

.

Eds not-so-red MINI · #8 11-19-2009, 05:13 PM

It is probably something you ought to have the dealer take a look at. But out of curiosity, how long has this been going on? Since your last fill-up, or longer? It's possible you got a bad tank of gas, and a can of something like Sea Foam or Techron should clear that up.

toki999 · #9 11-19-2009, 06:17 PM

ouch...make sure you check that out with the dealer...

Yorkshireman · #10 11-20-2009, 11:27 AM

I had a similar (but more severe) issue with mine - would fire up, run badly with fluctuating revs, then die. Took about half a dozen starts to sort itself out. Turned out to be the fuel pump - replaced under warranty.

MBnAZ · #11 11-20-2009, 11:57 AM

Mine manifested about once per day, but only about 60% of the time. Sometimes in the morning after first start, other times after work. In all cases the car had to sit for several hours. Car would start fine and seem to idle okay, maybe a little slow. I could move it out of my garage or parking space at work under it's own power in forward or reverse, but when I would press the accelerator pedal, it would hesitate or die. Next start would cure everything.

Dealer needed to keep it over night to reproduce the problem and had installed fuel pressure monitoring prior to their attempt. They came back with a diagnosis of the high-pressure fuel pump, replaced under warranty. I pick it up this afternoon, so here's hoping that this cures it. They said the fuel pressure was varying dramatically, so I am optimistic.

kymummer · #12 11-20-2009, 12:05 PM

Yep ... been there, done that ... high pressure fuel pump replaced, no more issues.

UA777222 · #13 11-22-2009, 06:32 AM

Thanks for all of the replies.

I'm going to take it in later this week because it also needs a new wheel hood due to the cosmoline (3rd time). I still think it has to do with the temperature given that it's only in the mornings or late evenings. Someone moved my car while I was sleeping (in my family) and I was driving a Z4 (that has a TPM issue) to get some miles on its new tires (because of the TPM issue) and then went back to the Mini after about 8 hours but it was about 70* out and it started just fine.

However, I just ran a few errands (2 miles, stop, start, 5 miles, stop start, etc) and came home. 6 hours later and it's 10:30 at night and 40* out and it did it again on me.

If it doesn't streight die on me it'll get up to 1,100-1,600 rpm, drop to 1,000, and keep falling but will fight for more. I'll kill it and then start over again and it's fine.

We'll find out when I go to the dealer. If it wasn't so fun to drive I would have gotten rid of the thing long ago...

Thanks.

nicknbecka · #14 11-22-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UA777222

I still think it has to do with the temperature given that it's only in the mornings or late evenings.

That's making the HPFP an even more likely culprit, it's heat sensitive- the HPFP is also used to preheat the fuel and after a few attempts to start it'll warm up enough to build up pressure to run properly.

EDIT:

For comparison, here's a copy and paste of my post asking for feedback on my problem a few months ago, which turned out to be the High Pressure Fuel Pump. Sound familiar?

Quote:

I haven't had the car start successfully without issue since I've had it back- the first press of the start button gets a half-hearted run up to about 600RPM and then dies. Nothing I've been able to do gets anything else.

If I time it exactly right, a push on the gas pedal on the second start can get the RPM up over 1100 or so, and once it crosses over that, everything runs almost as normal. If I don't time it right, or don't do it at all, RPM drops back down to the 600's and runs extremely rough- like two cylinders only rough. Lots of unburnt fuel in the exhaust- enough to smell from the driver's seat if I have the window open. Gas pedal at this point does nothing most of the time and I just have to shut it off.

I can almost always get it started on the third try with some extra gas pedal. Timing doesn't seem to be as important at this point.

Once it's running, everything seems to be okay. I've noticed some good knocks/pings a couple times under hard acceleration though, and the tach needle isn't rock steady at idle like it used to be.

dvhone · #15 11-23-2009, 12:18 PM

Exact same thing for my MCCS. Dearler had it for over two weeks trying a whole bunch of different things-timing, VANOS cylinder--nothing fixed it. They changed the HPFP (for the second time since I got the car 8-months ago), and BINGO! I've had it back a few days now, and it seems aok.

Take video showing the TACH when it occurs, email to your SA, and take it in.

Good luck!

TheBigNewt · #16 11-24-2009, 08:51 PM

I agree that it's the HPFP. At first with mine I thought it was cold weather (but mine's in a garage). But then it happened in warmer temps, but only the first start attempt of the day, then ran fine. Eventually it wouldn't run at all (or barely if you call it that). It threw a code and the rest is history. I say that's your problem no question. I tried the fuel additive too.

BriguyR56 · #17 11-27-2009, 11:23 AM

07 MCS Hatchback

Having the same simptoms as this fellow. Attempt to start in the morning and fails to start for the first few trys. When it does start it stumbles and sometimes dies, after a few times it will run normally. After reading this post a the fuel pump sounds like it could be the culprate. Problem is my MCS is out of warrenty and im having problems finding a replacement without having to go to the dealer. Anyone know where is a good place to buy? Is this a in tank pump like the 02-06?

Thanks
Brian

BriguyR56 · #18 11-27-2009, 11:27 AM

Im having the same problem with my 07 MCS Hatchback. First few time it wont start at all and when it does it stumbles but will finnally start and run fine. Problem is that my mini is out of warrenty and i dont want to buy it from the dealer. Anyone have suggestions where to buy? is this a intank pump like the 02-06?

Thanks

Brian

Flyinace2000 · #19 11-27-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BriguyR56

Im having the same problem with my 07 MCS Hatchback. First few time it wont start at all and when it does it stumbles but will finnally start and run fine. Problem is that my mini is out of warrenty and i dont want to buy it from the dealer. Anyone have suggestions where to buy? is this a intank pump like the 02-06?

Thanks

Brian

How far out of warranty are you. Since this is such a common problem i wouldn't be suprised if you could get MINI (either the dealer or MINIUSA) to foot the bill.

nicknbecka · #20 11-27-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BriguyR56

Problem is that my mini is out of warrenty and i dont want to buy it from the dealer. Anyone have suggestions where to buy? is this a intank pump like the 02-06?

I'd ask the dealer to do something for you too- it really is a common issue. I had the dealer cover some work as a one time courtesy out of warranty- sadly it was not the pump and I paid out of pocket for that :(

There's still a low-pressure in-tank pump, but the HPFP is under the hood, attached to the driver's side of the fuel rail. It's item number 1 in this diagram.

AkFarina · #21 11-27-2009, 06:06 PM

Its the cold start issue there is a huge thread about it in the stock issue area, you need the new manifold so the throttle body stops sticking.

BriguyR56 · #22 11-27-2009, 10:27 PM

Im at 60K so im not that out of warranty, sent an email to miniusa due to the service center not being open. I get the misfire codes on cylinder 1 and 3 and the D code. tried to check it right now but everything seems to be clear. Not sure its the trottle body since it clears up after it starts, more of starving from fuel than hesitation from lack of throttle reponse.

wildcrazy442000 · #23 11-30-2009, 08:02 PM

High Pressure Fuel Pumps are a issue with these cars. BMW extended the warranty on the Bimmers with HPFP to 6 years. Wish they would do the same for MINIs. My 09 has already had the HPFP replaced once.

UA777222 · #24 12-01-2009, 12:41 PM

Just dropped it off last night--got a nice new MCCS as a loaner.

I'll update when I hear back from my MA today.

Thanks guys.

UA777222 · #25 12-04-2009, 12:41 AM

I've once again underestimated the reliability of this forum and its users.

HPFP replaced and she's good as new. Well, technically, she still is new. Cosmoline issue addressed for the 3rd time as well. Dropped it off on Monday night, was ready for me Tuesday at 5 but wasn't able to get it until Wednesday at 5.

I must say though, on another note, that the MCCS they gave me was actually really nice. It was an auto, which I couldn't stand, but the rest of the car was addicitve. However, once I saw my shiny clean MCS roll up for me, I still think I made the right choice.

Thanks again guys for the consistant help/input.