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I went in for a routine service (15,000 miles) and metioned the cold start chatter... somehow this time they MIRACULOUSLY acknowledged it and have replaced the tensioner...
Hey man, I don't care as long as it's fixed now... I'm pretty happy. The funny thing is how many times previously I had the SA deny there was ever such an issue... EVEN after presenting a copy of the 11 02 08 SIM with the Mini Logo on it...
Do you know what they did to cure the tach rattle? I've got two '07 MCSs and they both have an annoying dash rattle centered on the tach area when driving on rough asphalt
On the second try they got me a whole new tach assembly no more rattles!
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'10 MCSC IY - Cold, H/K, Blue/USB and the top goes DOWN!!
'07 MCS - GONE
They have issued Service Letters (download a PFD from a previous post), but don't expect a 'recall'
since the issue does not seem to effect All 'S' owners.
__________________ 28April2008, 'Trixy' Cooper Automatic+Sunroof+AutoAir+HiFi+CruiseControl+15" Rotator Six Spoke
Mods: European Center Armrest+Wet Okole w/Lumbars over 4" Memory Foam(see Gallery)+XM-Radio+ScanGauge II
There will be a recall only after someone sticks their leg far enough into the engine bay to get burned by the tensioner piston assembly .... Any volunteers?
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Pepper White '07 MINI Cooper "S". The old MG is red, of course ...
Just got my 08 MCS back from dealer. Cold start rattle fix: new timing chain( deflection measured @ 69mms. 2mms. above specs) new tensioner, guides, and slide rails. They completed work in one day.
My 09 MCS started doing it again. Only happens after driving car for a while, then letting it sit for under an hour then restarting. Dealer says it is normal but was quick to schedule a service apt to check it out anyway.
__________________ "Hailey" my 09 MCS - Horizon Blue -Premium/Sports/Cold Weather Package, Bluetooth/iPod and Piano Black
Mods: Lumbar Retrofit, 4" Alta Antenna, Chrome Black Out, Craven Speed iPhone Mount, Alta Intake & AccessPort
Planned Mods: Alta Cat Back Exhaust, Oil Catch Can, JCW Steering Wheel...
Just got mine done last week. Took a couple of days to fix along with a few other small items. My car used to do the rattle at least 3-4 times a week. Hasn't done it since the repair (about a week). Mechanic said it was pretty bad.
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BigHarv
2009 MCS and lovin' it!
__________________ "Hailey" my 09 MCS - Horizon Blue -Premium/Sports/Cold Weather Package, Bluetooth/iPod and Piano Black
Mods: Lumbar Retrofit, 4" Alta Antenna, Chrome Black Out, Craven Speed iPhone Mount, Alta Intake & AccessPort
Planned Mods: Alta Cat Back Exhaust, Oil Catch Can, JCW Steering Wheel...
Another thing i just realized. Today i did a oil change (9700 miles) and put OEM Mini Oil in. This was also the first time i got the cold start issue reallly bad since my LAST oil change (2500 miles). "Who cares" you ask? I have been using Royal Purple for the past 5 months!
__________________ "Hailey" my 09 MCS - Horizon Blue -Premium/Sports/Cold Weather Package, Bluetooth/iPod and Piano Black
Mods: Lumbar Retrofit, 4" Alta Antenna, Chrome Black Out, Craven Speed iPhone Mount, Alta Intake & AccessPort
Planned Mods: Alta Cat Back Exhaust, Oil Catch Can, JCW Steering Wheel...
My 09 MCS started doing it again. Only happens after driving car for a while, then letting it sit for under an hour then restarting. Dealer says it is normal but was quick to schedule a service apt to check it out anyway.
Hmmm - this does not sound at all like the classic failed timing chain tensioner "cold start" diesel rattle, which has never been associated with "warm" starts. Better have the techs look at this one. Let us know what they discover
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Pepper White '07 MINI Cooper "S". The old MG is red, of course ...
__________________ I say, boy, you dont seem to be apprehendin' the general gist of what I'm tryin' to convey here. Maybe you oughta take a second, let your head catch up to your tongue before it gets all sunburnt. That was a joke, son, I say - a joke! Nice boy, but he's about as sharp as a sack o' wet mice.
My 09 MCS started doing it again. Only happens after driving car for a while, then letting it sit for under an hour then restarting. Dealer says it is normal but was quick to schedule a service apt to check it out anyway.
I agree with OldMGGuy-- this is not sympotmatic of what causes the rattle, which happens with a dead-cold engine (or starting a dead-cold engine, letting run for a minute, then stopping, the restarting).
I think it may be more related to yr oil change back to OEM oil and the general noisiness of these DI engine when cold. Let us know what yr dealer says.
__________________ I say, boy, you dont seem to be apprehendin' the general gist of what I'm tryin' to convey here. Maybe you oughta take a second, let your head catch up to your tongue before it gets all sunburnt. That was a joke, son, I say - a joke! Nice boy, but he's about as sharp as a sack o' wet mice.
I have a MCS July '08 build. I have 4k miles on my car and have never heard the "death rattle" and noises you guys are all describing.
Here are my questions:
1) is this issue something that ALL MCS owners should have addressed? Or only those w/ the "death rattle"?
2) Is the replacement tensioner the same as the one originally installed? Is the issue (according to BMW) that some/many of the original tensioners were installed incorrectly. Is it possible that some or many of us had ours installed correctly and will never need them replaced?
3) What is the average mileage that most people seem to experience this issue? or is it all over the board?
thanks, i've tried to read through most of the posts ..yet still have these quesitons.
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Drives:
930 Porsche Turbo | Mini Cooper S (both modified)
I have a MCS July '08 build. I have 4k miles on my car and have never heard the "death rattle" and noises you guys are all describing.
Here are my questions:
1) is this issue something that ALL MCS owners should have addressed? Or only those w/ the "death rattle"?
Yes it affects only the turbocharged Prince engine found not only in MCS's and JCWs but in European Peugeots with the same mill
2) Is the replacement tensioner the same as the one originally installed? Is the issue (according to BMW) that some/many of the original tensioners were installed incorrectly. Is it possible that some or many of us had ours installed correctly and will never need them replaced?
Who knows? It seems pretty random
3) What is the average mileage that most people seem to experience this issue? or is it all over the board?
Mine is a Sept 08 build and I had it twice in the first 3K last winter, both times parked nose-down about 40 degrees. However, since I started revving the engine to 3K, then hitting the stop button at 3K (when I knew my car was going to be parked long enough to go dead-cold, 6+ hours) it has not recurred in nearly 9 months and 6K miles, inc parked nose-down at the airport for a week. If you get the knock, and you WILL know it, try this method.
thanks, i've tried to read through most of the posts ..yet still have these quesitons.
I just had a full top end job done on my 86 Toy PU's 22RE engine at 272K miles, new chain, tensioners, guides, valve job, head gasket, water and oil pumps, etc etc. I described the MCS cold start knock to my mechanic, and he thinks what another SAE engineer theorized, that it's the poorly-designed hydraulic valve lash adjusters arent getting enough oil at power-down from this engine's oil delivery system (that's not in the base engine), they drain and aereate, and upon cold engine start up they become pnuematic and hence the knocking noise until the engine warms up and the metals expand to within designed tolerances. According to him this knocking is common with HLA-equipped engines; his wife's Mitsu Eclipse did it pretty often--until he learned about revving the engine at shutdown from a relative with an old Cadillac whose V8 had HLAs--and the same problem. HLAs have extremely tight tolerances, and if they are poorly designed to where they cannot hold enough oil as they cool off, they will knock in the transition from cold to warm engine.
We also discussed the tensioner fix, and how it reappeared after many of these fixes (inc one guy whose car did it on the lot right after being fixed) and he doesnt think the tensioner is the primary cause of the problem, that the tensioner is just a band-aid fix that can be done pretty fast, compared to tearing down the top end and replacing the HLAs. He did, however, say that if the knocking gets more common and worse over time, because of the tight tolerances this increased mechanical stress can domino-affect other valve train components like the tensioner, guides, chain, and vacuum pump. Failure of that pump will result in your engine siezing up and going south for good.
Hope this helps, and good luck. Oh and if you're wondering about the safety of the shutdown method, dont worry, my SA said no harm can come to the engine for doing this, just dont exceed 3K. He's also teamed up with other SAs to point this method out to BMW/PSA, why it works for the most part, so they can try and solve this issue once and for all.
__________________ I say, boy, you dont seem to be apprehendin' the general gist of what I'm tryin' to convey here. Maybe you oughta take a second, let your head catch up to your tongue before it gets all sunburnt. That was a joke, son, I say - a joke! Nice boy, but he's about as sharp as a sack o' wet mice.
I am pretty sure no one officially from MINI has ever said that anyone couldn't park nose down... that would just be silly...
No but for a brief spell some MINI dealers in England, at the time of sale, would play a brief .mpeg of the knock, describe it as "normal", then would attempt to have the customer sign a release document acknowledging this. Needless to say, that did not go over to well, for any halfway-intelligent human would realize something that severe is NOT normal. This was back in the day when BMW/MINI were in serious denial as to the legtimacy of the problem.
__________________ I say, boy, you dont seem to be apprehendin' the general gist of what I'm tryin' to convey here. Maybe you oughta take a second, let your head catch up to your tongue before it gets all sunburnt. That was a joke, son, I say - a joke! Nice boy, but he's about as sharp as a sack o' wet mice.
I have a MCS July '08 build. I have 4k miles on my car and have never heard the "death rattle" and noises you guys are all describing.
Here are my questions:
1) is this issue something that ALL MCS owners should have addressed? Or only those w/ the "death rattle"?
When I had my 2007 MCS fixed in August, MINI would only cover it if the rattle could be verified by the dealer.
Quote:
2) Is the replacement tensioner the same as the one originally installed? Is the issue (according to BMW) that some/many of the original tensioners were installed incorrectly. Is it possible that some or many of us had ours installed correctly and will never need them replaced?
I was told that an updated version was used in mine.
Quote:
3) What is the average mileage that most people seem to experience this issue? or is it all over the board?
My impression is that it varies greatly. For me, it was around 10K miles. Although it may have been that I didn't notice it earlier (starting with the radio on and not listening for it). Or, the circumstances that trigger it didn't happen earlier. Starting it, moving it out of the garage and back in, then leaving it overnight, are what triggered it for me.
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Robin Casady Bombadil: 2007 MINI Cooper S, R56, Pure Silver, LSD, Wood Shift Knob, Rota Slipstream 16x7, NAV, HIFI...
My symptoms were the same as many others have described, my car was built in early Feb '09 and I first heard it at about 1000 miles. Shortly after that I took it to the dealer and they replaced the tensioner with no qualms. Since then, it has not done it once and I'm at about 11.5K miles now. I think it's fixed, for me anyway. I have never heard my car knock like I've heard in the vids posted, so I don't think mine has the hydraulic lifter problem. I do not do the 3K rev and shutdown.
I changed the oil at about 3K, and again at 10K and have only used 5W30 Mobil1 and the factory filter, fwiw.....
Porsche and Audi both had troubles with bad lifters when they introduced them in the mid 80's cars, and the solution was just to replace the lifters with a newer improved version, lending credence to Sequence's theory. However, the noise they made was the distincitve lifter rattle which sounds different than the knock I hear in the vids posted.
Again, I think there are two distinct and diffferent problems here, the chain tensioner that hits the case due to a bad tensioner - the problem I had - and the lifter knock, if that's what it is.
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'09 LB/LB Clubman S
'69 Jaguar XK-E
'04 Audi Allroad Twin-Turbo
MMC#580
no more rattles!
28April2008, 'Trixy' Cooper Automatic+Sunroof+AutoAir+HiFi+CruiseControl+15" Rotator Six Spoke
Any volunteers?
I say, boy, you dont seem to be apprehendin' the general gist of what I'm tryin' to convey here. Maybe you oughta take a second, let your head catch up to your tongue before it gets all sunburnt. That was a joke, son, I say - a joke! Nice boy, but he's about as sharp as a sack o' wet mice.
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