Cold start issues database

[oldbob]

Model: 07S 6spd
Build Date: Delivered Mar. 2007
Miles: 6700
Duration: 2 to 7 min
Frequency: One time May 2007; 2x per month last winter; frequency now increasing
RPM range: around 1500; quiet <1000; not audible > 2000
Ambient Temp: 20F to 60F
Oil: OEM; changed by dealer at first service

Other Info: Happened once one month after delivery. Began to occur regularly last winter. Reported to dealer; 'piston for tensioner' replaced 6 weeks ago; noise unchanged. Occurrence seems to follow a very short use (< 1 mi.)
(I have audio files but type .wma cannot be attached.)

[Mini2na]

Model: 2007 R56 Mini Cooper S
Build Date: Sept 2007
Miles: 3500 miles when it began
Duration: Lasts from 20 secs to 2 mins
Frequency: (times per month/week) 3-4/month
RPM range: idle - 2500 (that's as far as I reved it)
Ambient Temp: 25-55 F
Oil: full

Any other relevant information:
Dealer bled the system. Has occured once (shortly) after. 10/25/08 - the sound has returned. While I still get the clatter sound, I now sometimes get louder, sound at and for a few seconds at start up.

[ram1962]

Model: 2008 R56 Mini Cooper S
Build Date: April 2008
Miles: 1100 miles
Duration: Lasted about 30 secs
Frequency: Only once
RPM range: idle - 2500
Ambient Temp: 80 F
Oil: Full & Factory

Any other relevant information: I had just switched cars in the driveway earlier that day. So the engine had only run for a couple minutes the previous time it was started.

[GregO]

I am highly skeptical this would resolve it, but time will tell...

http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/07/...al-fix-coming/

[brsmini]

Good Day:
Just got my 2008 MCS and it does it slightly and randomly on any start.
Research:
http://www.bmwz8.us/pdf/zz-VANOS_s62.pdf

Cheers,
Brian

[ImolaMini]

Model: 2008 R56 Mini Cooper S
Build Date: April 2008
Miles: 3900 miles
Duration: 1-2 minutes
Frequency: Once so far
RPM range: idle - 2500, didn't try to go higher
Ambient Temp: 65 F
Oil: Full factory bmw oil

Was last driven 2 days prior, and started up for a minute one day prior. The sound was louder inside the cabin than outside until revved to 2k+, when it became violently loud. There is no way this is not doing damage to the engine.

[ronnie948]

Harley Davidson motorcycle company had the exact same problem back in 1979/80 with their V-twin engines. It turned out to be carbon build-up on top of the pistons. When starting up cold the valves will hit the carbon and cause the noise. The fix was going back to dome top pistons and doing away with the flat top pistons on the affected engines. They were lucky because not a whole bunch of Engines were affected and the recall was not a major problem for them.
I'm sure the noise some Mini owners are experiencing is due to crap gas allowing carbon build-up. That is why the noise is not continous at all times. I'm sure the noise goes away after running your car around the block. Noise will happen more on a stone cold engine.
Ronnie

[rattmobbins]

Model: MCS
Build Date: July 2007
Miles: 6200
Duration: as little as 5 seconds, and as long as 10 to 15 minutes.
Frequency: just started a few (maybe 3) weeks ago and did it maybe once or twice a week, but it's now happening almost every time I start it up after not running for a few hours.
RPM range: at idle and can hear it up to about 3500 RPM.
Ambient Temp: between 50 and 80
Oil: factory

This makes me so sad. :(

[chandler_vt]

No its not a gas issue in the sense, its not crappy gas. I used to get fuel from exxon or shell only and i would still get it. I got the noise in cold weather only , it was fine otherwise.

[Gmann2369]

MODEL: 09 JCW
BUILD DATE: 7/08
MILES: 2000
DURATION: 2-5 min
FREQUENCY: Every cold start
RPM RANGE: ALL RPM
AMBIENT TEMP: 60 F
OIL: OEM

OTHER RELEVANT INFO: At start clatter is LOUD, RPM stumbles from 400 to 1100. If throttle is blipped eng occasionally stalls.

[Halifax]

Damn, a new JCW has this issue? Looks like we'll be waiting for the 2010 model year to upgrade. One would have figured that MINI would have resolved this problem on new production machines by now.

The stalling issue is interesting, tho. Sounds like there may be something else at play there.

[daveK9]

Model: MCSa
Build Date: 02/08
Miles: 10,000
Duration: more than 1 min, I shut it off!
Frequency: This is the First time that it lasted for more than a two seconds.
RPM range: idle to 1500
Ambient Temp: 75 deg F.
Oil: Mini supplied, was changed once at 6k mi’s w/new filter.
Any other relevant information:
Started car and moved out of garage, when restarted a few hours later to go for fuel.. Valve tappets stated to slap !!

This is an oil flow issue, a defect. The HLA's are running w/o oil, we need a fix before long term damage is done.

[turbo tel]

Originally Posted by daveK9

Model: MCSa
Build Date: 02/08
Miles: 10,000
Duration: more than 1 min, I shut it off!
Frequency: This is the First time that it lasted for more than a two seconds.
RPM range: idle to 1500
Ambient Temp: 75 deg F.
Oil: Mini supplied, was changed once at 6k mi’s w/new filter.
Any other relevant information:
Started car and moved out of garage, when restarted a few hours later to go for fuel.. Valve tappets stated to slap !!

This is an oil flow issue, a defect. The HLA's are running w/o oil, we need a fix before long term damage is done.

Exactly the same thing happened to me the other day, pulled it out of the garage and a couple of hours later... It took a long time to go away, If you want to scare yourself, open the oil filler cap, the noise is horrendus.

I absolutely agree on the long term damage..

[Spectral G]

Not sure what happened to my regular account, it got wiped out somehow. Anyway, new screen name is shortened to Spectral G instead of Spectral Glider.

But anyway, my 07 S has this problem and I can recreate it all the time. It has nothing to do with the temps or types of oil used or type of gas or incline parking or any of that. But as the last couple posters mentioned, all I have to do is fire it up and only move it as far as outside the garage or back into the garage and it will make that ghastly sound when you try to start it the next morning/afternoon/evening whatever the case may be. Also, when this does happen, if I try to go, especially in reverse, it will cough, sputter, and wheeze and act like it wants to stall until you wait a few seconds or a couple minutes for the motor to straighten out. It sure sounds like the oil flow issue to me.

To sum up, don't start your 07+ S unless you intend to actually drive it somewhere. Because if you drive it normally, like to work, the store, the gas station, whatever, the car is fine. It's the short, quick, motor starts and stops that present this issue. Kind of a small pain in the ass, but it is an easy workaround. Besides, I'm not driving 2+ hours for the dealer to pretend to have never heard of the problem and then try to humor me with some sort of lame answer. Until they really have a solution, then I'll take it in.

Edit: By the way, I have an 07 MCSa, late July 07 build.

[richs10]

Originally Posted by Spectral G

Not sure what happened to my regular account, it got wiped out somehow. Anyway, new screen name is shortened to Spectral G instead of Spectral Glider.

But anyway, my 07 S has this problem and I can recreate it all the time. It has nothing to do with the temps or types of oil used or type of gas or incline parking or any of that. But as the last couple posters mentioned, all I have to do is fire it up and only move it as far as outside the garage or back into the garage and it will make that ghastly sound when you try to start it the next morning/afternoon/evening whatever the case may be. Also, when this does happen, if I try to go, especially in reverse, it will cough, sputter, and wheeze and act like it wants to stall until you wait a few seconds or a couple minutes for the motor to straighten out. It sure sounds like the oil flow issue to me.

To sum up, don't start your 07+ S unless you intend to actually drive it somewhere. Because if you drive it normally, like to work, the store, the gas station, whatever, the car is fine. It's the short, quick, motor starts and stops that present this issue. Kind of a small pain in the ass, but it is an easy workaround. Besides, I'm not driving 2+ hours for the dealer to pretend to have never heard of the problem and then try to humor me with some sort of lame answer. Until they really have a solution, then I'll take it in.

Edit: By the way, I have an 07 MCSa, late July 07 build.

I absolutely, positively agree with Spectral G's observations. I too, can make my car do this by starting it from cold, and moving it several times. On the third or fourth re-start, the rattle is usually there. My info is as follows:

Model: 2008 Clubman S
Build Date: May 2008
Miles: 4200
Duration: 30 seconds to one minute
Frequency: (times per month/week) when ever I restart it after short runs. (Move car a few feet to wash it, then move it back to original spot to dry it or detail it. If I have to move it again, for example to get it out of the sun to wax, the third time gives me the rattle. This has happened on four separate occassions. FWIW, early saturday mornings.
RPM range: Rattle is at idle and increases with rpm.
Ambient Temp: Summer mornings. 70 to 80 degrees.
Oil: original factory oil.

Any other relevant information: My rattle is there, clearly noticeable, but it is no way as severe as some of the recordings I've heard with other affected cars. Also I do not have the coughing, wheezing or sputtering mentioned above, but I have not tried to move the car when it is doing this.

They really need to figure this out. But I am not gonna let them mess with my engine until they have a proven fix in place. In the meantime, I am taking steps to minimize having to move the car when washing/detailing it.

Otherwise, I just love this car!!!!
Rich

[Doc Cooper]

Cooper S, 6-Speed Manual
Build Date: Aug 2008
Miles: 1700+
Duration: 1 - 3 minute
Frequency: has only happend once times.
RPM range: under 3000 rpm
Ambient Temp: high 60s CA weather at night time by the coastal area
Oil: got new oil change at 1200 miles so pretty much brand new oil/filter

Any other relevant information:
very noisy flap flap flap sound... after 3 minutes or so.. turned the engine off.. restarted it... gone.... doesnt do it anymore.. weird..

[flyinlow]

This sounds like a somewhat similar problem I have had with a couple GM trucks I own. I would start them up, back them out of the garage, then turn them off. When I went to start them again, they took forever to start. Talked to a few people and they recommended one of two things.

1. Let the engine run for at least 1 minute OR....
2. Rev the engine up to about 2500 rpm and let it come back down, then turn off the vehicle.

This is suppossed to let the computer get enough info or something like that.

I back these things out of the garage quite a bit because of other things I'm doing in there. Once I started following the above rules I no longer have any issues.

Might be something to try for those of you who have had this issue several times.

[jhbjrpdx]

1400 miles and I got to experience the cold start rattle. It is actually kind of unnerving. Washed the Blue Dude and backed him down the driveway a bit last night. When I started it this morning the rattle erupted. It lasted until I got a few houses down the street. I'd sure like to know what is going on here. In the 50's when I started the car.

[Doc Cooper]

My car did it again... should i take it into the dealer? I dont know what they are gonna say. It seems to happen when I do not drive the car for a whole day then if i start the engine next day.

[daveK9]

I would not drive the car until the "noise" stops.

Just let it idle and gently go up and down from idle to approx 1,500 rpm, once the oil pumps up in the HLA’s (in a couple of minutes) the "noise" will go away as your valves will be working properly. Back to happy Motoring once more !!

The lack of power and sputtering is due to the valves not opening correctly and this could be very dangerous if someone is pulling out of their driveway!!!

Spectral G., I completely agree with you, as this happened again to me last Monday after I backed the Mini into the garage from the driveway Sunday night, next day woosh… I had to just sit and wait for it to stop.

As for the Dealer they said there was no point as it was a “cold start” issue and it would be hot once I got there…??? Anyway I too am not dropping it off for them to fool w/it until they have a “real” fix.

Guess it will take someone pulling out in front of traffic and having it do a nose dive and well you know the rest… to get attention to the issue, just like the exhaust tips burning a few people ?

All said, I still love this car and have no buyers remorse (yet)

[Doc Cooper]

Originally Posted by daveK9

I would not drive the car until the "noise" stops.

Just let it idle and gently go up and down from idle to approx 1,500 rpm, once the oil pumps up in the HLA’s (in a couple of minutes) the "noise" will go away as your valves will be working properly. Back to happy Motoring once more !!

The lack of power and sputtering is due to the valves not opening correctly and this could be very dangerous if someone is pulling out of their driveway!!!

Spectral G., I completely agree with you, as this happened again to me last Monday after I backed the Mini into the garage from the driveway Sunday night, next day woosh… I had to just sit and wait for it to stop.

As for the Dealer they said there was no point as it was a “cold start” issue and it would be hot once I got there…??? Anyway I too am not dropping it off for them to fool w/it until they have a “real” fix.

Guess it will take someone pulling out in front of traffic and having it do a nose dive and well you know the rest… to get attention to the issue, just like the exhaust tips burning a few people ?

All said, I still love this car and have no buyers remorse (yet)

I just dropped my car at Southbay MINI here in socal. The tech told me he has replaced tensioning belt or something. He says that he is finding "old" parts that BMW replaced on new MINI randomly and causing this noise issue. He says that when it losens or slackens, it doesnt pump up enough oil to lubricate therefore creates that sound until things get warmed up.

Seems like he knows what he has to do on my MINI. And he loves modifying it like me!! We talked briefly about suspension mod and wheels.

Ill let you guys know when i get my car back.

[Birdman]

Originally Posted by daveK9

All said, I still love this car and have no buyers remorse (yet)

You obviously didn't get the broken naviation system they are selling/ripping people off with!!

[Bishamon]

Originally Posted by daveK9

I would not drive the car until the "noise" stops.

Just let it idle and gently go up and down from idle to approx 1,500 rpm, once the oil pumps up in the HLA’s (in a couple of minutes) the "noise" will go away as your valves will be working properly. Back to happy Motoring once more !!

The lack of power and sputtering is due to the valves not opening correctly and this could be very dangerous if someone is pulling out of their driveway!!!

According to MINI, the problem is not with the HLAs, but with the cam chain tensioner, and the sound is from the chain hitting the guides. At least, that is what they are claiming, and the fix they are working on is centered around the tensioner being the source of the trouble.

[Doc Cooper]

Happened again last night. SOCAL has been cold at night.. and this happened for the 3rd time. After the car warmed up (5 min) the sound was gone. It is obviously some flaw in the design.... damn oil pump issue... They should have put a 1.8L corolla engine and turbo that.. that thing will never have an issue,

[ronnie948]

It was caused by them using flat-top pistons . The carbon would build up on the pistons allowing the valves to touch the carbon . It only happened when the V-Twin motor was cold. After the valves chipped away the carbon the clatter was gone.
Absolutly no damage is caused except the noise freaks out the person starting the engine. It sounds terrible.
Harly Davidson fixed the problem on a need to repair problem. They installed new pistons with a cut-out for the valve. Problem solved.
Does anyone know if the Mini engine uses flat-top pistons? If so do they have a cut-out for the valves?
My guess is this is the problom and they are going to do the same repair as Harley did only when someone complains enough.
This is my guess, I don't know what else can cause something like this because if it was mechenical it would be constant. If electrical it would show up on the computer.
Ronnie948