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  #351  
Old 12-12-2009, 02:55 AM
myspdjcw09 myspdjcw09 is offline
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Cold start with idle surge.

Cold start with surge up and down 900-1500 with rich fuel mixture and black smoke. The engine light is on and my scan gauge found p1637 Throttle valve position control; Control deviation & p1638 Throttle valve position control; Throttle stuck tempararily. This occured after driving 42 hwy miles that gets my scan gauge water tmp to 220f and sat over night.
I am up in Palmer Alaska and we have no mini dealer but a BMW dealer in Anchorage. Mini paid for slide back tow and no charge from BMW. They did nothing. They said "we had 4 mini's in with same the problem and its because of moisture freezing in throttle body." Its -15F below O and he tells me to park inside. I asked if a block heater would help and he says they dont make one. Yesterday at -2F after letting it run until my water tmp hit 100 I shut off and restarted with no change so I raised the bonnet and pounded on the intake tubing between filter and turbo as well as pushed in on sensor wires. Reset codes restarted and it worked fine. This is a 2009 JCW no mods and 15000 miles. BMW mech says we dont realy get trained on Mini's and have the special tools for anything big. We arent aware of a service buillitin. And that was it.
Does anyone no a fix? Will a pan heater help? The other reality is I dont always have a place to plug it in.
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  #352  
Old 12-13-2009, 07:41 AM
oldsbear oldsbear is offline
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Some sort of heater under the bonnet might do the trick. In my experience, getting the temperature above zero F would be enough. Overnight, maybe you could use an incandescent lamp (maybe 100W), under bonnet, in a protective housing. Where you don't have electricity, maybe a chemical hand-warmer, applied a half-hour before you start out?
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  #353  
Old 12-13-2009, 08:20 AM
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rosvick rosvick is offline
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New manifold numbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorkboy View Post
Also, this past week or so, MINI has released another new manifold but totally different design, that can be available for me.
Do you have a part number or service bulletin number for this new and improved intake manifold by chance, dorkboy? It sounds like the solution everyone has been waiting for! If it relocates the PCV valve to be fed back into the intake manifold AFTER the throttle body (where it makes more sense to me to begin with), then this sounds like BMW has finally sussed out the problem!

Please keep us all up to date, and post pictures if you can!

Thanks.
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  #354  
Old 12-18-2009, 08:09 AM
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I just brought my car in for this problem. I got about 2 sentences out when my SA said he knew exactly what is was. They installed a "new 4 port intake manifold" part#11-61-4-584-240. Started fine this morning-athough it was warm out (8 degrees)-so we will see if this solves the problem.
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  #355  
Old 12-19-2009, 04:13 AM
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Add my o9 MCS to the pile. I was hoping that by the time i finished reading 15 pages there would have been a fix

I started my car yesterday morning and backed out of my unheated garage. I have a slight downhil slope. I went in for coffe and to find my daughter snowboard helmet. I heard the idle was reving so i went out side and saw the half filled CEL was on. I shut the car off and turned it on and it can back on. So I then having no clue what was up remembered read where someone had a problem with cold starts on an incline so i pulled the car around so it was pointing down and shut it off and went back inside to read my manual.

I then went back out and it started fine...drove the 40 miles to work with no problem...drove many short trips al day long with no problem, and drove the 40 miles home with no problems.

I have not started the car yet this morning and it is in the garage. Yesterday...the garage door was completely open all night, so opening the windows would have no effect.

I can say that the day before driving was done on REALLY wet roads...and yesterdays driving was done on really dry roads...so if it starts fine this morning could the wet roads be part of the cause?

I will email my dealer this morning, but they are 50 miles away...but i want to prep them for this and see how they are addressing it.

This is not good news for me, as i got rid of my saab because i hated the idea that at anytime the car could die because of the ignition pac design they had.
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  #356  
Old 12-19-2009, 06:13 AM
oldsbear oldsbear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioGuy View Post
I just brought my car in for this problem. I got about 2 sentences out when my SA said he knew exactly what is was. They installed a "new 4 port intake manifold" part#11-61-4-584-240.....
That's encouraging. Do you have an "S"?
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  #357  
Old 12-19-2009, 11:47 AM
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This past week was stupid cold -20 to -36 C. My car grumbled every morning but started. Then tuesday she refused to start! Later after work she still refused to start, but after 10 mins of trying she came alive. Tons of misc codes popped up, but brought my car to the dealership.
I got my car yesterday with the new 4 port intake manifold, the part # gave you is the same part # as mine. They said that there was condensation in the manifold. Weird.
It is now +3 C outside and I am smoking some ribs, but when the weather gets colder and if anything happens, you will be the 2nd to know (dealership is the 1st).

Let's all hope that this is the winner of intakes.

Merry christmas everybody,


Scott.
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  #358  
Old 01-07-2010, 11:34 AM
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2nd occurrence for my '09 MCS, yesterday parked outside 10 hours at -20C with high humidity (ice fog). Immediately showed the problem on starting, drove 6 blocks, pulled over and shut-down. On re-start it was doing the same thing, so I drove a few more kilometers, shut-down again, and re-started with the problem still there, but after pulling away, it resolved itself. This time the small CEL light in the speedo stayed lit, even after being garaged 1.5 hours and re-started. (1st occurence the CEL light did not stay lit after problem went away)
Hooked up the Scangauge II and found:

P1637 : Throttle Valve Position Control; Control Deviation.

P1638 : Throttle Valve Position Control; Throttle Stuck Temporarily.

I cleared the codes with the Scangauge II to turn off the CEL.

This morning all is OK, but what lurks behind the shadows...
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  #359  
Old 01-09-2010, 08:17 AM
Yo Mortaaay Yo Mortaaay is offline
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You need to get your manifold replaced....

My experience..

I had to go through the intake manifold fix\replacement Tues Jan 5.... So far so good. My car didn't start well on Tuesday (very cold) went directly to MINI dealership ( just down the road from where I work ) and they knew right away what it was. gave me a loaner and I got my car back and fixed the next day at noon.. cold Have had nothing but cold mornings since having the car back and no problems since..
Crappy I had the problem but mini did fix it fast.
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  #360  
Old 01-09-2010, 12:32 PM
STi2Mini STi2Mini is offline
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Mine is in the shop as we speak for the manifold issue. They knew instantly what it was as soon as I told him the issues I was having. Happy that I got it fixed before my warranty was up!!
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  #361  
Old 01-10-2010, 09:23 PM
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So, is there an actual fix yet for this? Sounds like the problem keeps coming back. The fixes seem to keep people going just to get past the winter season before it happens again next winter. My Mini went back into the shop on Wednesday, for the second time. First time was last winter, and it just started doing it again last week. Hope they put in the proper fix this time, so that it doesn't happen again next winter.

Every time I call Mini Customer Service the play DUMB, and sound as if they have never heard of this problem. I call BS! The only person who has never heard of the problem is a newbie CS rep. Isn't there anyone who knows what is going on with this issue at their Customer Service line!!!!

Can't really keep this car just as a summer car!! I live in Canada and that just won't work up here.
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  #362  
Old 01-10-2010, 10:09 PM
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Mine is going into the dealership tomorrow for the same issues...It's done it about 4 times in the past week.
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  #363  
Old 01-25-2010, 10:49 PM
TheBlackBrian TheBlackBrian is offline
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My block has just been replaced(under warranty; thank god) due to "unrepairable damage to the cylinder walls" after 11,000 miles on my 09 S. This was discovered after the same half full engine light appeared at the end of a 1000 mile road trip. I have not yet been able to speak with the tech about what exactly caused my #2 and 3 cylinders to self destruct, but I hope to get a clear answer when I pick it up on Wednesday.

I only remember three separate times of a rough start with the car(sounded like a diesel for about 3 minutes), but never a light until my motor self destructed. I was told I was three quarts low on oil when I brought it in. This is after changing the oil 2k miles prior.

From what I gather, most people are being told it is moisture build up due to cold climates?
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  #364  
Old 01-26-2010, 03:09 PM
TheBlackBrian TheBlackBrian is offline
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Was pleasantly surprised with a call today letting me know my car was available for pick up. In total, 34 engine components had to be replaced.

From what I was told, my issue did not have any relation to the "cold start" problem. Apparently my piston rings were defective and after 11k miles shattered, spewing shards of metal throughout my engine. They attribute the failure to manufacturer defect.

Personally, I just think those snarky french are messing with the brits and sending them all of the bad motors .

I must thank Ralph Schomp for making the best of a crappy situation, and letting me play with a JCW clubman for a few weeks.
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  #365  
Old 01-28-2010, 07:22 AM
Charger440 Charger440 is offline
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My wife's 2009 MCS just did this on Tuesday. I told her to take it straight to MINI and they knew what the problem was right away. They said they had the parts in stock and would have it ready for pickup the next day and they did. The switched the intake manifold to the 4 port because of moisture build-up in the manifold boot. It wasn't that cold out when this happened either, probably only -1 F. It was a lot colder a month ago and it ran fine.
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  #366  
Old 01-30-2010, 10:29 AM
R3R R3R is offline
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2010 MCS (Dec 2009 build) had the icy throttle starting problem today at 2°F and only 290 miles.
Called my dealer (Keeler) service dept. who said they have replacement intake manifolds in stock for this well known problem, which are to be installed on problematic cars only as Mini does not put them on their assembly line in the UK. I realize the redesigned manifolds could be more expensive than the stock ones, but still, I feel Mini should install them on all cars on the assembly line.

This icy throttle problem today followed two cold start metal on metal rattle episodes from the left side of the engine yesterday at 3°F... I'm not at all impressed with these Peugot engines.
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Last edited by R3R; 01-31-2010 at 06:29 AM.
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  #367  
Old 01-30-2010, 01:56 PM
Tu13es Tu13es is offline
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Ugh, went out to start my car today and had this happen for the first time. It was really cold last night (2F or so) but it was about 20F when I started it. Jumping RPMs, awful sounding, CEL with the half-colored gadget showed in yellow. Tried starting a few times and it didn't go away. Started it a few hours later and it sounded a lot better though the CEL was still shown on the speedometer.

I realize I need to get this fixed ASAP. However, can I drive it in the meantime? The service dept at my dealership is closed until Monday and I need to get to work then. Will I be able to drive it to the dealer?

I have a 2009 JCW, FWIW.
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  #368  
Old 01-31-2010, 09:34 AM
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Tu13es, you should be able to drive it, I drove mine for about a 20 minute stretch while it was acting up. I then shut it down and restarted prior to entering an underground parkade - it restarted fine and ran normally thereafter. Mine has acted up on one other occasion. A couple of local club members '09 MCS have however become incapacitated after half a dozen or more incidents, and they have since had the new 4 port manifold installed, so it appears the problem gets worse with repeated occurrences.
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  #369  
Old 02-01-2010, 12:42 PM
Huikko Huikko is offline
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Just to inform you all that the replacement manifold does not remove the issue.

I had this problem and they replaced the manifold and tubing to the factory claimed solution to this particular problem.

After a week same problem happened again. Here in Finland it's been -10 to -25 celsius for a few months and using an MCS is a nightmare.

If you can really melt the whole car (warm garage) then it'll work just fine. Otherwise it's almost certain that the problem occurs. Other thing is that even if you finally get the car started after this "engine fault reduced power" comes up it will not run normally. I tried this with 220km ride and it burned over 8 litres more fuel / 100km after this problem appears. Fuel consumption comes back to normal after you can melt the car properly.

We have about 20 MCS with the same problem here right now. Some have already the better improved new manifold, some don't.

Today the factory representative officially told me to "shut up, bring the loaner back and drive home". They have totally washed their hands off this problem and will no longer do anything about it.

Why? Because this problem is fixed to the 2010 MCS with different engine.
This only occurs in cold climate and if customer is stupid enough to buy an Mini while living at col climate - it his/hers own fault.

This is enough for me. I will sell this car very quickly and will never ever get involved with anything that says BMW or Mini.

Last edited by Huikko; 02-01-2010 at 12:43 PM. Reason: typos corrected
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  #370  
Old 02-01-2010, 07:51 PM
R3R R3R is offline
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I have received my two week old 2010 MCS (December 2009 built) back today, after less than one business day at the dealer. Keeler Mini has outstanding service in my book.

303 found faults 2B2B and 2B32 present found throttle frozen
replaced manifold with updated one SIM 120509 def code 1011000500

11-61-4-584-240 97MI INTAKE MANIFOLD: 116010
13-74-2-756-043 31MI AIR CHANNEL: 13709974

So they ended up replacing the intake manifold as well as the air channel.

I dearly hope Huikko is wrong and that this will prove to be the definitive fix for the frozen throttle, but I am prepared now for the worst. As much as I am impressed with the service at Keeler Mini, I am quite disappointed that Mini/BMW have not installed the redesigned intake manifold on the assembly line or at least during the car preparation intended for a dealer in a cold climate.
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Last edited by R3R; 02-01-2010 at 07:52 PM. Reason: typos
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  #371  
Old 02-01-2010, 11:12 PM
Huikko Huikko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3R View Post
11-61-4-584-240 97MI INTAKE MANIFOLD: 116010
13-74-2-756-043 31MI AIR CHANNEL: 13709974
I have the exact same parts replaced. Maybe (and this is a strong maybe) it doesn't freeze so easily.
Old air channel doesn't fit on the new manifold. It has to be replaced.

All together it still freezes and paralyzes the car totally.

We are gathering names to make a group complaint over this matter here, but I've already been unofficially told that BMW is not going to do anything about it complaint or no-complaint.

And it's not just a little freeze. There was a chunk of ice size of the key fob on the manifold last time. I saw the photos they sent to the factory as they asked for guidance what to do if the new manifold freezes too. Now when factory has told them to do nothing, they have to tell me the same.

Last edited by Huikko; 02-01-2010 at 11:35 PM.
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  #372  
Old 02-02-2010, 06:39 AM
Tu13es Tu13es is offline
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I brought mine in today and they told me they're replacing the intake manifold. Don't know any other details than that, yet. Will be watching this topic (and my car) closely, though.
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  #373  
Old 02-02-2010, 06:41 AM
Tu13es Tu13es is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huikko View Post
Today the factory representative officially told me to "shut up, bring the loaner back and drive home".
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  #374  
Old 02-02-2010, 06:59 AM
Huikko Huikko is offline
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New info! This is about two hours old.

There is a new part number for yet another manifold to fix this problem. This being the 3rd manifold number and 2nd fix to this problem.

Nothing more to tell at this point. Just spoke to BMW spokesman and he said he's just received info from germany and will keep me posted as this goes forward.

So maybe there is some light at the end of this frozen tunnel after all.
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  #375  
Old 02-05-2010, 03:44 PM
Narek Narek is offline
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Cold start woes

I just had my '09 S into the dealer today for the same problem described throughout this thread. They are indeed going to replace the intake manifold and I was told by the service manager that Mini Canada, as of this week, has 300 intake manifolds in stock, whereas last week they had none. Evidently, they know about the problem and this is their fix for it.
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:44 PM
 
 
 
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