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We've had a few threads about "Weeping" minis... washer fluid slowly leaks out of the washer jets after a drive... but nothing that seemed (to me) like a conclusive gavel-pounding end.
So here it is: the end. Something, probably heat causing expansion, causes the washer fluid to leak out the nozzles slowly, streaming down the hood, leaving marks, etc... A new pair of "check valves" installed under the hood next to each nozzle has fixed the problems for everyone who has reported back on these forums (that I found anyhow).
A check valve is a one-way valve. There are many designs for check valves, but a likely design is the simple ball-on-a-spring:
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(thanks, wikimedia commons)
So its a one-way valve. The one-way nature of the valve really doesn't help fix the problem. There is, however, a side effect to a check valve: activating the valve, in this case pushing the ball out of the way, requires a certain amount of pressure, "cracking pressure". If the pressure pushing out is less then the required cracking pressure, no fluid passes the valve (and therefore no fluid reaches the nozzle and escapes down your hood).
The check valve is pictured here on my mini (equipped with heated washer jets, which are the other wires attached to the nozzles themselves):
They're small, only slightly affects the power of the jets, and seems to fix the problem. The service manager at my dealership postulated that soon new models will start leaving the factory with these.
So there you are. Problem solved...unless anyone knows something I don't?
finally, someone has a fix to this, i just got my mini back yesterday after 5 days of them trying to figure it out, but still couldnt fix it, what a waste of 5 days, when i could have been driving my mini.
finally, someone has a fix to this, i just got my mini back yesterday after 5 days of them trying to figure it out, but still couldnt fix it, what a waste of 5 days, when i could have been driving my mini.
If only the Mini service establishment could share info as well as the NAM community.
There was a Nam'er that had a pretty good fix.....
where the tube "y's" in the middle between the two nozzles there is a check valve already in place to hold fluid in the line. This check valve is there to prevent having to "prime" the line everytime you use the jets.
This particular Nam'er claims to have replaced this middle check valve with a simple 30 cent vaccuum line t-tube allowing the fluid to drain back into the tank, and thus no wheeping. He also goes on to claim that the jets funtioned as normal after this mod, leading us to believe that priming of the line happens instantly without hesitation.
I for one would tend to believe this method would work, and I plan on trying it. What can it hurt for 30cents an two minutes of time???
__________________ SOLD!
2007 MCS 6spd, LSD, Sport suspension, Premium sound, Cold weather package, sun roof
Alta cat-back exhaust, homemade intake, custom Whalen shift machine, Konig Zero's w/Goodyear Eagle F1 Allseasons, ALTA Prosport H20 and Boost gauges, H&R lowering springs, MiniMadness engine bushings, custom auto-on sport button
My jets weep too. Obviously a check valve will solve the weeping jet issue. But the actual cause is not being addressed. The jets are weeping due to thermal expansion caused by the extreme temperatures under the MCSm bonnet.
I have an IR thermometer and a multimeter with a temperature probe that I have just start to use to log the bonnet temps just after a drive. I've seen it as hot as 235F. Here's what I've logged so far: 10/1/07
Morning Commute
-- Dest. bonnet temp +5 to 10 minutes: 191F
Evening Commute
-- Dest. bonnet temp +5 to 10 minutes: 209F
I only took the Mini on a quick 3 mile spin and logged these temps today:
The probe reads temps in Celsius -- 108 which converts to 228.2 Fahrenheit. The hottest spot on the bonnet today was only180.2F.
180.2F is an all time low, but then again it was only 3 miles.
So I ask, is it a washer jet issue, or a thermal expansion issue generated by 200+ underhood temps?? Also keep in mind my bonnet reading today was 180F , while the under the bonnet temp reached 228F. Water boils at 212, but let's plug the leaking hole with a check valve and ignore the cause.
Other owners have had their scoops warp/melt due to this heat issue! You can find that thread here.
I also think that these high temps are going to take their toll on various under bonnet components (plastic, rubber). It's also a safety issue. Someone is going to get burned unless this is addressed.
Anyway, just something to consider. Sorry about the rant.
I've read about that problem before, and kept a watch for it, but haven't seen much of a heat problem on my (1 month old) MCSa. I understand that earlier R56 MCSs have their hood scoop blocked; mine does not.
Then again, I'm still in the break-in period. I'm not currently driving it like one is supposed to drive a mini
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07 MCSa BRG/W, Prem, Cold, DSC
Last edited by porkchop; 10-05-2007 at 06:32 AM.
Reason: fixed a brain fart
All three of our 2005 R53 MINI had leaking washer jets (as does our brand new 2007). Thus, if MINI hasn't addressed this issue in more than three years, I doubt that they ever will.
It is however much more annoying on our new 07 seeing as the front nozzles are now directly in the middle of the hood and are already staining the hood (with less than one full week of ownership). Oy!
It is however much more annoying on our new 07 seeing as the front nozzles are now directly in the middle of the hood and are already staining the hood (with less than one full week of ownership). Oy!
Actual staining? Oy indeed. I'd get those valves installed pronto. Also, in the interim, you might want to swap out whatever washer fluid is in there - I read somewhere they sometimes put too high a concentration at the factory.
Well... If I buff the paint fairly hard with a soft cloth it will come off for now, but who knows what it will look like after a year or two???
The frustrating part is that the weeping goes all the way down the front of the hood towards the headlamps. It's not like it's localized to one small place.
So after reading up on this post a bit, I can say I don't have a prob with that cosmo stuff, but I am conserned a bit with the concentration of the washer mix that the dealer/ factory uses. I used the washer jets the other day after the rain had cleared to get the road grime off. The question I have for all of you out there is:
Will the left over drops of the washer fluid etch my paint and stain it permanently?
If this is the case, wouldn't it be ok to run some kind of distilled or filtered water instead of washer fluid? I was thinking some kind of de-ionized or activated carbon filtered water.
After reading a couple of threads about the fluid staining and/or etching the paint, today I completely drained my washer reservoir and refilled it with 20/10 windshield cleaner which is according to the label "harmless to car finishes, rubber, metal, & plastic".
I didn't want to take a chance not knowing what was in the reservoir. My MINI is a week old and I took delivery of it last weekend. I hadn't used the washers at all and noticed the reservoir was low and i couldn't see the fluid level.
Drewster- I too recieved my car last weekend and noticed the washer fluid being really low. I only used my jets once, so I don't think the low level was due to me. Anyway, what brand did you decide on using after research? Also, is the 20/10 water/washer fluid? I'm still thinking of just using water, but if the washer fluid is safe, then I may go this route. Thanks.
20/10 is the brand i picked up from Kragen. You can go to any local auto parts store and look for washer fluid that is safe for paint. I wouldn't use straight water, for the times when you do need the washer I think having some sort of "soap" will help clean the windshield better. Also if you see yourself in below freezing conditions, look for the washer fluid with antifreeze in it.
The problems reported with factory washer fluid have been due to factory folk not getting the mix right. Regular washer fluid of any sort should not impact your mini; its no more sensitive than any other car.
I use Rain-X washer fluid. The only trouble is that when it drys on the plastic flashing, it leaves a little film behind. Its easily washed off.
Harrison Motorsports in GA suggests using Mercedes Benz WW solvent --- comes in a little tube that you mix with distilled water. Won't freeze or stain.
I haven't tried it yet; I hear it cures bad breath too...
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