Suspension Rear Adj. Control Arm question
#1
Rear Adj. Control Arm question
Hello everyone, I'm getting ready to buy some control arms for Brutus.
I want to go with Ireland Engineering brand, but then I'm thinking H-sport.
How important is it to grease the bushings on control arms? Could greasing the bushings on the H-sports be contributing to the premature failure?
thanks in advance.
I want to go with Ireland Engineering brand, but then I'm thinking H-sport.
How important is it to grease the bushings on control arms? Could greasing the bushings on the H-sports be contributing to the premature failure?
thanks in advance.
#2
if you get the h-sports watch out for this:
the stock arms have a steel bushing that runs the full width of the attach channel. you can crank down the through bolts to the specified torque and not damage any bushing material.
if you try this with the h-sports, you can deform the chassis channel sides and crush / deform the poly end bushings. don't use the stock bolt torque spec. with the h-sports. i wonder if this is a possible cause for some h-sport failures?
the stock arms have a steel bushing that runs the full width of the attach channel. you can crank down the through bolts to the specified torque and not damage any bushing material.
if you try this with the h-sports, you can deform the chassis channel sides and crush / deform the poly end bushings. don't use the stock bolt torque spec. with the h-sports. i wonder if this is a possible cause for some h-sport failures?
#5
Originally Posted by sfjames2
Hello everyone, I'm getting ready to buy some control arms for Brutus.
I want to go with Ireland Engineering brand, but then I'm thinking H-sport.
How important is it to grease the bushings on control arms? Could greasing the bushings on the H-sports be contributing to the premature failure?
thanks in advance.
I want to go with Ireland Engineering brand, but then I'm thinking H-sport.
How important is it to grease the bushings on control arms? Could greasing the bushings on the H-sports be contributing to the premature failure?
thanks in advance.
Put around 2,000 miles on the controls arms without any problems what so ever. That includes (2) track days at Infineon and (2) track days at Thunderhill.
#6
Originally Posted by kmickey
I've installed H-Sport upper and lower control arms.
Put around 2,000 miles on the controls arms without any problems what so ever. That includes (2) track days at Infineon and (2) track days at Thunderhill.
Put around 2,000 miles on the controls arms without any problems what so ever. That includes (2) track days at Infineon and (2) track days at Thunderhill.
I'm gonna get the Hsports, just have to wait for them now.
#7
Hey James,
If ya need help on the install let me know. Ive done it before so I might be of some assistance. My friend who installed them on a car told me I should have run the gas tank really low before installing them.... maybe they just dropped the tank out? Ill ask and see what he says.
Got it all aligned today at his brothers shop. When I went in my rear was at -2.5! Since you have the M7s and sit a bit lower you might be to like 3.0! I had it adjusted to 1.2 and I must say I am suprised as to how much better it grips around the turns. It was only $40 and took him about 30 minutes.
Just for reference the setting I am running now is front and back toe in 1/16 and -1.2 camber in the rear. I forgot to ask him to check the front camber setting so Ill wait til my friend gets here on the 10th so I can just pop into the shop and check myself.
If ya need help on the install let me know. Ive done it before so I might be of some assistance. My friend who installed them on a car told me I should have run the gas tank really low before installing them.... maybe they just dropped the tank out? Ill ask and see what he says.
Got it all aligned today at his brothers shop. When I went in my rear was at -2.5! Since you have the M7s and sit a bit lower you might be to like 3.0! I had it adjusted to 1.2 and I must say I am suprised as to how much better it grips around the turns. It was only $40 and took him about 30 minutes.
Just for reference the setting I am running now is front and back toe in 1/16 and -1.2 camber in the rear. I forgot to ask him to check the front camber setting so Ill wait til my friend gets here on the 10th so I can just pop into the shop and check myself.
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#8
#9
Originally Posted by kyriian
why is the hsport worth the money is my big question....
im shopping for control arms right now and the only difference i see with h-sport and alta or rdr or any brand is that alta uses helm joints and h-sport uses poly bushings
is poly just better?
im shopping for control arms right now and the only difference i see with h-sport and alta or rdr or any brand is that alta uses helm joints and h-sport uses poly bushings
is poly just better?
For lightest weight (50% of stock) consider the RDR control arms(Teflon-lined heim joints )-
http://helix13.com/html/products/pro...p?p=suspension
It's your choice- prices are similar as are install times.
#10
Originally Posted by kyriian
why is the hsport worth the money is my big question....
im shopping for control arms right now and the only difference i see with h-sport and alta or rdr or any brand is that alta uses helm joints and h-sport uses poly bushings
is poly just better?
im shopping for control arms right now and the only difference i see with h-sport and alta or rdr or any brand is that alta uses helm joints and h-sport uses poly bushings
is poly just better?
p.s. another distinct advantage of the heim joints is their chatter over poor roads. I always tell my passengers that this is what a real race car suspension sounds like. Cool factor 10+.
#11
#12
#13
Originally Posted by goldcountrymini
thanks for the some great information. I have been thinking about suspension upgrades and trying to get some information with what bits to put where. This info has really helped. Any other rookie stuff would help too. I have been browsing/searching too.
If only one upgrade do the rear adjustable swaybar first. Three holes and pick the sofest or middle setting. For MC choose 19mm and for MCS choose either 22mm or 19mm (thicker is stiffer). H-sport comps are 25mm but lightweight thin wall for effective 22mm performance at half the weight but slightly higher cost (mostly for competition). Colors differ. Check out the Rspeed bar- it's the newest and at a decent price.
If you want to do more then rear swaybar and lowering springs is a common choice- A little lower would be M7, alta and others with less than 1" drop.
More drop would be H-sport and even more drop would be HR.
Coilovers are nice and highly adjustable but much more costly.
Once you add springs or coilovers you will notice that the rear negative camber can be much more than stock. Likely about -2.4 degrees. To adjust for less camber back into the stock range you will need rear control arms that are adjustable. (see above discussion).
For front camber adjustment needed for max performance on the track or at autocross add front camber plates.
Have fun
#14
minihune... thanks for the breakdown. That helps. I was looking at the ALta for sway bar... I don't autoX (yet), but want something stable for canyon roads, but also soft enough for daily commute... is the Alta 22mm gonna work the best.
By the way... I have a 2004 DS/B MCS... I assume the Alta 22mm is gonna work the best for my needs?!?!?!
By the way... I have a 2004 DS/B MCS... I assume the Alta 22mm is gonna work the best for my needs?!?!?!
#16
Originally Posted by goldcountrymini
minihune... thanks for the breakdown. That helps. I was looking at the ALta for sway bar... I don't autoX (yet), but want something stable for canyon roads, but also soft enough for daily commute... is the Alta 22mm gonna work the best.
By the way... I have a 2004 DS/B MCS... I assume the Alta 22mm is gonna work the best for my needs?!?!?!
By the way... I have a 2004 DS/B MCS... I assume the Alta 22mm is gonna work the best for my needs?!?!?!
#17
I ran the RDR control arms on my mini. The worked great and did make some noise. Plus you need to lube then and clean them from time to time if you drive in allot of rain and winter conditions.
When I buy a mini again i will do the H sports but I will look into a longer sleve with in the poly bushing.
When I buy a mini again i will do the H sports but I will look into a longer sleve with in the poly bushing.
#19
Originally Posted by goldcountrymini
minihune... thanks for the breakdown. That helps. I was looking at the ALta for sway bar... I don't autoX (yet), but want something stable for canyon roads, but also soft enough for daily commute... is the Alta 22mm gonna work the best.
By the way... I have a 2004 DS/B MCS... I assume the Alta 22mm is gonna work the best for my needs?!?!?!
By the way... I have a 2004 DS/B MCS... I assume the Alta 22mm is gonna work the best for my needs?!?!?!
This place has the ALTA 22mm bar (and 19mm bar) on the cheap.
http://www.jscspeed.com/mini/suspension/amp_swaybar.htm
Not affiliated, just a happy customer.
Marty
#21
Originally Posted by goldcountrymini
minihune... thanks for the breakdown. That helps. I was looking at the ALta for sway bar... I don't autoX (yet), but want something stable for canyon roads, but also soft enough for daily commute... is the Alta 22mm gonna work the best.
By the way... I have a 2004 DS/B MCS... I assume the Alta 22mm is gonna work the best for my needs?!?!?!
By the way... I have a 2004 DS/B MCS... I assume the Alta 22mm is gonna work the best for my needs?!?!?!
As far as springs go, I have m7's and Jason has Hsports. You can't go wrong either way. Good luck and of course let me know if you need any help
#23
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any body ever run the Ireland Engineering arms with the poly bushings? they seem like a good alternative but haven't heard of anybody using them. also has anyone ever used a 19mm then a 22mm or vice versa? what were the differences you felt? Dinan, UUC, Pilo all recommend the 19mm but the majority around here say go 22mm. if i plan on trying Auto-X and not too often will the 22mm be total overkill, and is there a 3 hole 19mm?
#24
Originally Posted by discodan
any body ever run the Ireland Engineering arms with the poly bushings? they seem like a good alternative but haven't heard of anybody using them. also has anyone ever used a 19mm then a 22mm or vice versa? what were the differences you felt? Dinan, UUC, Pilo all recommend the 19mm but the majority around here say go 22mm. if i plan on trying Auto-X and not too often will the 22mm be total overkill, and is there a 3 hole 19mm?
The IE rear 22mm swaybar info states:
$169 - 22mm adjustable hollow rear sway bar kit for the Mini Cooper. Kit includes bar, bushings and end links. Most rear bars sold by other companies make you use the wimpy factory end links. Our bars include adjustable links with rod ends that others charge extra for. Also our bars are adjustable via a billet aluminum slider rather than having 2 or 3 holes.
For autocross the 22mm would work fine for the MCS - usually with the soft or middle setting.
For the 19mm bar in an MCS the middle or stiffest setting might work. Depends on the wheels/tires, suspension, alignment and driving style.
#25
Originally Posted by discodan
any body ever run the Ireland Engineering arms with the poly bushings? they seem like a good alternative but haven't heard of anybody using them. also has anyone ever used a 19mm then a 22mm or vice versa? what were the differences you felt? Dinan, UUC, Pilo all recommend the 19mm but the majority around here say go 22mm. if i plan on trying Auto-X and not too often will the 22mm be total overkill, and is there a 3 hole 19mm?
I drive with a UUC 19mm bar,still on the soft setting and it's great. If I auto crossed though, I'd get a 3 position bar (hsport), just to have the option of three settings. I don't think a 22mm bar is overkill at all. good luck