Im looking to get a Intercooler and have always been a fan of the M7, but the alta seems to be so close to the m7 one, so im stuck on what one to get anyone have any inputs on this that would be great.

Also If anyone suggesets anyother intercooler please feel free to let me know what one and where to get it weather it be a a2a or a w2a IC.

Thanks again

 

how much power are you running?
And why do you want to get An intercooler?

 

Buy W2A one.

Madness, RMW, RMS, KMT or something like that.

 

As of now im just at dinan S1, and am almost at Dinan S2, I want an intercooler becuse I want that added power and it is hot as hell in lousiaina during the our long humid summer.

 

This is always an interesting question to ask on NAM...! I chose the DFIC. I really like it and it works great. There are a lot of happy DFIC owners out there I have tried three intercoolers, stock, Alta VS1, DFIC, then I tried them all again. Stock gave me no satisfaction and almost made my car feel naturally aspirated. The RPM range was much more boring although driveability was better than the Alta. The Alta VS 1 was very sluggish off the line, in between gears, then the power started to pick up in the mid to high range. You had to burn up the clutch to get it to move from a stoplight. The DFIC made the car react quicker, made shifting easier due to better driveability and the car started picking up power right away all the way to the top then even more in the next gear. Three people drove my car and gave me their input. All of them thought exactly as I did. I've never tried a water to air, I didn't like the idea of all of the cost, extra parts and hoses, and extra maintence. I like the functionality, reliability and simplicity of the air to air. I also plan to do the extractor scoop. I like the idea of lowering underhood temps

 

Anyone experiencing boost lose with either DFIC's? I have heard of differing boost loses with both but was wondering also what people perfered between the M7 and Alta DFIC's. W2A also seems like to much hastle at the present moment for me...

 

What extra power is it that you speak of? I've seen stock cars dyno at 250+ wHP and lose power with aftermarket IC's. I see no reason to upgrade your IC unless you track your car, or have large sums of money to spend on things (In which case a head, tune, and exhaust will get you a LOT more power, and would be nicely accompanied by a Water to Air IC).

I've had over 230 whp on my car for well over a year now. I still run the stock IC.

 

All IC's have a pressure drop, just some are more than others. I haven't tested the Alta DFIC. The M7 one, at least when I owned one had a significant pressure drop.

 

Hmm. I have heard the opposite. Though I have heard it has a pressure drop that it wasn't significant. I heard the significant one would be the Alta since it is slightly bigger. I am confused at why an aftermarket company would make "better" intercoolers for our cars when the stock one could "easily" handle some 250hp. Why would anyone even buy these up? Just seems to me that these aftermarket intercoolers can offer some type of benefit or else they wouldn't be able to keep "coning" people into buying them. But what do I know? Lets hear someone who does know what they are talking about shed some light on this...

 

Because people don't listen. Same reason Jan at RMW runs 650 whp through the stock throttle body and coilpack but people keep shelling out $500 for a TB and whatever the current wackjob pricing is for coilpacks. People don't listen.

I can't explain why vendors make things that don't have any benefit. The most simple explanation is because they're in business to make money.

I've tested the M7 DFIC, I owned one for a few months (Finally took it off cause I got tired of using it as a stove). Gets hotter than stock, and takes a lot longer to recover. I drive my car on the track, I know the stock IC works fine. I was at Willow Springs International Raceway all weekend. My intake temps never got above 125 (Even though it was 85-90 the whole weekend...).

Don't believe me, that's fine. I have no stake in it either way, just trying to save you some money.

 

Not saying I didn't believe you. Just trying to understand this intercooler tech because I am one that is looking into it to decide whether or not to buy one down the line. I do not want to buy something, especially when it costs a load of money, that is not going to profit me anything. Ya know?

 

Rustiboi had the old "original" DFIC, the new DFIC2 is greatly enhanced in every aspect. Lower back pressure, less mass to keep heat retention to a minimum and faster recovery at high temps, the turbulators are all re- designed with new geometry for more efficient cooling.

ClintTheMiniOwner does have the new DFIC2 and I applaud him for doing a real world test, not a dyno-queen test with very low CFM flow through the core
and around the engine compartment. Clint also received a highflow hoodscoop
new silicone boots, diverter, new SS hardware and foam package all for
$899 not a bad deal at all. But the bottom line is, the DFIC outperforms most units out there as Clint pointed out.

Peter
M7 Tuning
562-608-8123

 

Let me put it this way then:
There are other places to invest money before an intercooler becomes important...

Ask anyone in the 220+ wHP club. We're all running stock (OEM) IC's.

 

So there is obviously something better out there

 

What IC do you run Paul?

 

What do you mean when you say "invest money"? We know, We know we should all just buy a "Jesus" head, a full race header and exhaust and some larger injectors FROM RMW and that's all you need to make big power numbers, we know we know!! I just don't know if the money for those parts I just listed can be spent by everyone on these forums and maybe they're just trying to get some more power out of their car without going 6k in debt. With the DFIC2 and the Aerogel I can't see how much more heat this IC can retain versus the stock IC DRIVING (which is how real power is measured not on a dyno suffering from heat soak!) It's not fair for the average joe schmoe to sit there and say you don't need to buy this vendors parts or this other vendors parts...just the vendor that I have bought everything from because they are the only ones that make good products. We know you have numbers to prove it (and they are impressive!!) but I just think its bad business tactics to say don't buy this or this...just buy what I've got cuz its the only thing that works. I'll have a laugh at that since you're laughing at everyone who has spent money on OTHER vendors!

 

I am curious as to a couple of statements here. You say the stock intercooler works better on the dyno, with little airflow, but your DFIC works better on the street when there is more airflow. At some point the DFIC leapfrogs the stock intercooler in performance, correct?
1) Can you tell us at what point this occurs?
2) Is there a magical CFM number the unit needs to acheive it's performance?
3) What does this CFM equate to on the street in MPH?
4) What kind of testing apparatus was used for these tests since they were on the street? Pics?

You also stated that the DFIC performs better than most intercoolers available for the MINI. Can you provide a list of all the units tested? Which few units did work better than the DFIC and in what situations? What kind of standardized testing program did you implement to test all of the intercoolers if the dyno could not be used for your product?

Thanks in advance.

 

Corky Bell has been dabbling with forced induction and I/C's for some 30 odd years and is pretty well respected in the industry. This Intercooler FAQ should shed some light on the subject.

I've only tested the OEM, DFIC V1 and GP I/C's on track and only by feel and lap times. For my needs the GP I/C has worked best for me. However this is not a readily obtainable part.

 

1) your going to hell for this .

2) about IC investment money - the point here is that there is very little investment/HP gain when it comes to ICs and that money can typically be spent better in the pursuit of performance.

Having gone insane and having owned 4 IC units, changing the IC is one of the last mods to do in my book. The consensus is that it is hard to beat the stocker. Aftermarkets either give you better thermal efficiency at the cost of pressure drop or less pressure drop at the cost of thermal efficiency. I have yet to see an IC that beats the stocker in BOTH categories.

One of the IC units I've owned is the DFIC but version 1. I live in Florida (heat and more heat) and found the DFIC to make the car most consistent from a daily driver perspective. What I mean is that I would go out and do runs back to back and there seemed to be less HP loss (i.e. pull) from run to run compared to the others. I measured these runs using a GTech and it confirmed this. (Note - Gtech is a good indicative device but not a high tech accurate tool). I did note about a 1 lb of pressure drop.

If your living in high temp enviroment, I like the DFIC.

 

As it keeps being said, different I/C's work better for people with different needs. The take away item is to access your needs first, then see what I/C is best for that application in conjunction with your current state of tune.

 

I couldn't agree with this statement more!

Everyone has different needs and thank God we have a bunch of vendors willing to keep producing cool products for our cars. (Even with the abundance of naysayers)

I drive my car on the street and I posted this review on our local club boards. I figure I'd throw it up here for those that are interested.
Ambient temp the day I tested these was 81 degrees fh
*******Begin Cut and paste********

Ok, I had the opportunity to test 3 intercoolers over the weekend and thought I'd post my opinion on them. I tried all three complete set ups on my car. I did this trying to figure out if my pinging was intercooler related.
I found out that it was not however, it was worse with some over others.

M7: The car has a mild ping
GRS: The cars ping was slightly more pronounced over the M7
Stock: The car pinged WAY worse, my engine sounded like a pinball machine 8O Interesting!!??

Keep in mind that I didn't dyno the car with each of these, or run measuring equipment of any sort. I ran the car for about an hour with each intercooler on the car on the same roads. I used my seat of the pants measurement technique as the only means to draw my conclusions.

I tested the following intercoolers

M7 DFIC version 2 (I have the areogel blanket as well)
GRS Motorsports
Stock intercooler

M7 DFIC: Included Items
Intercooler
DFIC Hood Scoop
New intercooler boots
New clamp hardware
Front air tunnel
Sealing foam, instructions etc.
Price $899.00 ($100.00 for the Areogel Blanket)

The M7 DFIC Intercooler happens to be my favorite and is going to stay on my car.
There are several things about this intercooler that I love.
The materials, fit, finish and packaging were top notch. Very easy installation, everything fit and went together flawlessly.
The version 2 dfic is smaller and redesigned to increase boost. The lightweight aluminum and size allows for quick recovery from heat. I feel like the cooling effectiveness is increased by having the air flow directly thru instead of having to take a 90 degree like the other intercoolers.

While driving, the M7 intercooler was more responsive off the line and thru the RPM range. It constantly felt strong and the car pulled hard from stop to redline consistantly.

After hard driving I pulled into my garage and immediately popped the hood and felt the intake and outlet horns. I also felt the intercooler temp. The intake horn was extremely hot and I couldn't keep my hand on it. The outlet temp was hot but I could keep my hand on the horn, it wasn't hot enough to burn me. The intercooler temp was hot hot on the intake side and the same temp as the horn on the outlet side.


GRS Motorsports: Included Items
Intercooler
Hood mountable air diffuser
Scoop mountable air channel
Foam
Price $700.00 plus shipping from across the pond (Not sure these can be purchased in the US currently)

This was my second favorite intercooler. I think this intercooler would greatly benefit from having a larger scoop like the M7 Ram Air or Extreme scoop. It is set up to use the stock scoop. Putting a larger one on I know would greatly improve the cooling and performance this intercooler could provide.

The fit, finish and design of this intercooler is truly amazing. Looking at the thing and the way its build screams "Holy crap! I'm something!" The interior core design and the way the air flows thru unobstructed (well almost, talk about that in a second) is very very pretty. There are virtually no interior "air tubulators" in the interior of the core. This allows this intercooler to be as large as it is and still retain boost or "pressure".
Ok now, one drawback to the interior design is the way they designed the "air channels". The actual interior airflow pathways are raised and the exterior air pathways are recessed. I can only imagine that this will cause some issues with turbulent airflow. I think they should have at the very least designed these to sit even with each other (See images)

The GRS seemed to have slightly less boost than the M7, not quite the oomph and raw power. It was really smooth thru the rpm range and the power delivery was smooth and constant. I also had the Alta top mount on my car at one point. I would compare this intercooler to the Alta except the GRS has more boost. I felt more power with the GRS than the Alta but not as much as I did with the M7 DFIC.

After hard driving I pulled into my garage and immediately popped the hood and felt the intake and outlet horns. I also felt the intercooler temp. The intake horn was extremely hot and I couldn't keep my hand on it. The outlet temp was hot, almost hot enough to burn me. I couldn't keep my hand on it. The intercooler temp was hot hot on the intake side and the same temp as the horn on the outlet side. Again, I think this intercooler would perform waaaay better with a larger hood scoop feeding it more air. I think it would keep the temps down and this intercooler would shine.

Stock Intercooler: Incuded items
YOU HAVE ALL OF THEM!! If you don't call Levi! 8O

Ok, I felt like this intercooler performed the worst out of them all but not horribly so. The power delivery was smooth and constant thru the rpm range to redline. Throttle response was quick and good. The only thing I noticed was the car just felt more "sluggish" than it did with the other IC's.
I'm guessing that this IC would benefit from having more air run thru it as well. All IC's will benefit from larger hoodscoops. More air equals more cooling which equals more power!

After hard driving I pulled into my garage and immediately popped the hood and felt the intake and outlet horns. I also felt the intercooler temp. The intake horn was extremely hot and I couldn't keep my hand on it. The outlet temp was hot, almost hot enough to burn me. I couldn't keep my hand on it. The intercooler temp was hot hot on the intake side and the same temp as the horn on the outlet side. Again, I think this intercooler would perform waaaay better with a larger hood scoop feeding it more air.

Anyway, keep in mind that these conclusions are my opinions on these intercoolers. Since I had three of them on my car the same day I could tell differences between them. Was fun and interesting! Keep in mind that cars are different and so are peoples driving habits. Someone that tracks their car all of the time would have different needs than someone that drives canyons and streets.

For me and my car the M7 DFIC V2 is the winner. Very very good all round intercooler

This picture is of all the contestants and most included items


Top of the intercooler surfaces


Airflow surface


Intercooler thickness


M7 DFIC Interior core design


GRS Motorsports core design. As you can see the air channel surface is raised. It's my opinion that the flow of air would benefit from being recessed or at the very least being flush. The second image is of the sun shining thru. Nothing to impede the airflow in this thing. Very cool!



Stock interior core design. Having the intake channels pinched together for better airflow is a very cool design. I wish the M7 had these!


I had fun testing these and unfortunately swapping them out didnt get rid of my pinging... At least now I know it isn't intercooler related. The pinging actually got way worse with the stocker on!

I think I have carbon deposits in my engine thats causing it. I switched spark plugs to a colder NGK and while they were out I checked each cylinder. My number 3 piston has allot of carbon on it. Way more than the other ones. I'm going to try to run some Seafoam thru and see if that clears it up.

********End cut and paste********

I have also had the Alta top mount. With that intercooler on my car seemed more sluggish off the line. I have not had the Alta DFIC so I don't have an opinion on it really

 

It's good someone took the time to test and post results. Now, if the test had been blind and data logged from the ECU.........

 

If only I had the equipment. I would have loved to been able to get hard data from my testing

 

Nice post, Intense. Thanks for sharing.

Not having a DFIC v.2 myself, and it's kinda hard to tell in this pic...

...but are the tubes facing the ambient air flow rounded?

Kinda like what I did here to my v.1...

...and here on the inlet side...

...would be pretty cool if Peter incorporated the rounded tubes on the front face.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=89499

 

I never said you needed to buy expensive RMW parts to make power. I just said that if all you have is a pulley, a one ball, and a CAI, slapping a $900 IC on there wouldn't be the first thing I did.

It's true, I had the V1 DFIC, as Peter pointed out. However I've tested (Not just on the dyno) other cars with the V2, and Alta's first and second IC, as well as the stocker and the GP. What i've found is that none of the aftermarket IC's could keep up on the track because once they heatsoaked, they took forever to cool down.

Weigh an aftermarket IC sometime then weigh the stocker. The M7 one weighs at least 6-7 lbs, the stocker barely weighs 1 lb. It's true, more mass = more potential to absorb thermal energy, but every IC heat soaks. I'd rather have one that heat soaks and recovers in 10 seconds than one that heat soaks and takes 75 seconds of driving at 60 MPH to recover.

Use the information however you wish. Doesn't hurt my feelings if you go out and buy an IC, your decision.