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Hi everyone,
I've looked elsewhere on the site and not found all of this addressed, so hopefully I'm not repeating someone else. I could really use your advice...!
I'm very close to placing an order for an 07 MC, but have some last minute second thoughts, etc, and wondered what you guys thought:
1. The 'new' engine in the 2007's - is there much of a track record on this thing? I don't know how long BMW has been using it, or even IF they've used it in other cars before. Granted, I don't have much knowledge at all of engine technology, so please excuse me if this is a really stupid question. But I've always been told not to buy the first-year run of anything, so I'm a little nervous and wondering if I should stick with an 06 (even though I don't really want to!)
2. DSC - to get or not to get...? I really don't like not being able to have control over my car. I live in a snowy area, but drive really conservatively when the weather is bad - and the thought of this thing kicking in and taking away control is scary. Then again, I know you can turn it off... just curious what you guys think.
3. I would love to own this car for 30 years - do you think that's even a remotely possible idea? With all of the computer software in these now, and as someone elsewhere mentioned, things like the push-button start, is it realistic to think I could do the repairs needed to have a car that long? How much I throw in to details (like chrome exterior/interior, etc) will greatly depend on how long I think I'm actually gonna have the thing. I'd like to have it be a 'heritage' car, but do you guys think that's possible?
Thanks SO much for your help! Love the site!
-nnasirhc
1. 'new' engine
2. DSC
3. I would love to own this car for 30 years
-nnasirhc
I've been debating about the same things more or less so let me chime in...
1- no track record but I think most problems w/new cars are not the engines but rather the rattles and electronics. I am not too worried and w/the upgrade in fuel economy and performance I think worth it.
2- I decided to go for it. the new one is apparently less intrusive. better to have than not to have.
3- classic minis are much simpler and easier so it's a no brainer... I don't know anyone who still has a 1990 computer... and even if you wanted to upgrade it would be pretty much close to impossible. in that case though you need to buy a classic car and forget about the ones with all the gadgets, but that makes no sense in terms of safety, fuel economy and comfort. I say go for what you want now and in the short term, who knows what anyone's life will be like in 30 years!!!!
1- no track record but I think most problems w/new cars are not the engines but rather the rattles and electronics.
I agree. What new cars are out there with engine problems? I think most modern engines that are properly maintained easily make it over 100K miles. Heck, I put 175K miles on my aluminum block '74 Vega GT ...and that car was a rolling piece of crap.
This may or may not be a general problem but the engine malfunction light on my 07 MC flipped on at a little over 300 miles. It's been at the dealers for two days and apparently everyone is scratching their collective heads over it. The service advisor had been remarkably candid about the situation and tells me that the department foreman is working with North American Mini to try to figure out what's going on.
3)Anything is possible. A car lasts for as long as the owner is willing to maintain it and baby it. I have a co-worker here with a *MINT* condition 1986 Mercedes Benz S-class coupe, which are very rare cars now days. His car looks NEW both inside and out. He bought it brand new off the truck 21 years ago. His secret: Baby the thing and be on top of its maintenance. His car has a host of 1980's electronics and an active suspension which was the rage at the time.
So, if a car from 1986 still drives, looks, feels and smells like new, I have no doubt that a 2007 MINI, properly taken care of, will still turn heads in 2027.
C4, I agree with our comments for #1 and #2.
The OP said 30 years not 20 years so try 2037.
The only serious issue here is that means 1977 technology, not 1987 technology.
OBD hadnt even been invented. There are so many new electonic advantages and technology doubles every twenty years, you can take it to the bank that a 1977 car is SIMPLER to maintain (and even a 1987) car simply because theres little or new computers. A 2007 is loaded with technology that WILL be obsolete in 6 years never mind 20 or 30 years.
A quick example, well it might not be in MINIs, but electronic suspensions that adjust to road conditions in realtime require chips and software. In 10 years, predictions are the boards will no longer exist and the software long gone and modernized (and hence the usability of electronically adjustable suspension being long lived and not replaced) questionable.
Simply put ... it will be the electronics in the car that will be the determining factor of long term usability ... probably not the engine or body or mechanical components that can always be created by a machine shop and blueprints.
Just think, you buy a computer in 1997 (never mind 1987) and PCs didnt exist in 1977 ... how obsolete is it? Its the electronics, technology ... software ... that will be the killer
Quote:
Originally Posted by C4
The 2002-2006 MINIs are already catalogued as 'tomorrow's collectors cars". yes the MINI is a piece of history and if you baby it it will give you many decades of good service.
One article says that and its "collectable" and you believe it??. You know very well that only time will tell that. Maybe ... and maybe not.
As far as making it a keeper the other thing that helps is if you have a garage. UV is very destructive over time. My '84 Saab 900S was garaged most of it's life and at 9 years and 180,000 miles most people thought it was a new or year old car.
I'm garaged at work too. I pick one of the 'single spaces' of which the large garage has a couple where by virtue of the layout no one can park next to me. I also park way out and walk at stores. A slew of door dings really make a car look older than it is.
Like others said, maintain her. And keep the car clean and waxed / polished.
__________________ 2005 MCSC: LSD, Aerokit, Alta CAI and 15%, Magnaflow Catback, Hawk Ceramics, TSW XBrace chassis brace, Kosei K1's w/ Goodyear F1 GS-D3's 1969 Westerly Cirrus: Kappa sails, 155% genoa :-) , CDI roller furl/reef, Yamaha 4 stroke, Interlux Polyurethane, West system Epoxies and glass. MYMINI in a TV Commercial! The "Making of" the commercial :-)
As far as making it a keeper the other thing that helps is if you have a garage. UV is very destructive over time.
Agreed. UV is the killer of paint and interiors.
But its going to be the electronics that are the deciding factor. Just try to find someone who programs in 1977 IT languages .... Cobol, Fortran, Basic. They dont exist. The languages are long dead.
This may or may not be a general problem but the engine malfunction light on my 07 MC flipped on at a little over 300 miles. It's been at the dealers for two days and apparently everyone is scratching their collective heads over it. The service advisor had been remarkably candid about the situation and tells me that the department foreman is working with North American Mini to try to figure out what's going on.
I'll let you know what I find out as it develops.
Didn't someone else just post this, and they required and ECU upgrade. VDC may have let a couple slip through?
The only serious issue here is that means 1977 technology, not 1987 technology.
OBD hadnt even been invented. There are so many new electonic advantages and technology doubles every twenty years, you can take it to the bank that a 1977 car is SIMPLER to maintain (and even a 1987) car simply because theres little or new computers. A 2007 is loaded with technology that WILL be obsolete in 6 years never mind 20 or 30 years.
A quick example, well it might not be in MINIs, but electronic suspensions that adjust to road conditions in realtime require chips and software. In 10 years, predictions are the boards will no longer exist and the software long gone and modernized (and hence the usability of electronically adjustable suspension being long lived and not replaced) questionable.
Simply put ... it will be the electronics in the car that will be the determining factor of long term usability ... probably not the engine or body or mechanical components that can always be created by a machine shop and blueprints.
Just think, you buy a computer in 1997 (never mind 1987) and PCs didnt exist in 1977 ... how obsolete is it? Its the electronics, technology ... software ... that will be the killer
One article says that and its "collectable" and you believe it??. You know very well that only time will tell that. Maybe ... and maybe not.
One of the reasons cars use firmware, not software. The firmware should stay there as long as the car does. Even and 80's car with an engine computer can reprogram itself when required. It has certain parameters in its firmware. When for example you replace the battery you start the car up let it idle and it will 'readjust itself consistent with its firmware settings. Comparisons of car hardware/firmware to computers and SW is not really valid. SW has to be reloaded everytime its repowered, firmware does not, its always there, although it can be 'refreshed' to later versions. If no one is maintaining or upgrading to newer versions it should continue with the latest loaded version as long as the card is good.
But its going to be the electronics that are the deciding factor. Just try to find someone who programs in 1977 IT languages .... Cobol, Fortran, Basic. They dont exist. The languages are long dead.
Yup, I meant of paint and interiors. That's part of the reason I always have windows tinted.
Hey! I can program in all those, and 6502 machine language! They DO exist, but in very very limited use I'll admit! Heck, even the shuttles were flying with 20 year old computers till recently.
Maybe the point to be made here if the original poster isn't a car nut already is that you can certainly drive, maintain, and restore just about anything IF you're willing to pay the price. A big price. You won't be able to do it at the dealer as the manufacturer will stop the parts supply at some point.
But if you are willing to pay the price, wait long down times for parts to be found or MADE, there's not much you can't do. By the time a MINI is 20-30 years old maybe you'd be repowering it with a fuel cell drive train, like some of the Mini guys are repowering with V Tec's now!
I realize that fabricating a body or engine part is completely different from a bad ECU or such, but if you don't insist on keeping it 100% original and have $ to throw at it you can keep almost anything going. Take a stroll around the Carlisle fairgrounds, or thumb through a Hemmings Motor News.
It's almost never a sensible investment, but we're talking passion not logic. You certainly can't usually drive and have a 20+ year old car serviced like a contemporary / current one. It also matter if enough other nuts have a thing for the same car. Then you'll find more people making reproduction parts.
I.E. if you have a 60's Camaro there's a slew of people making new parts for almost everything, including the chrome plastic trim. If on the other hand you're trying to restore a AMC Javelin, Matador, or Ambassador you're going to find slim pickings!
So get a job like Jay Leno where you 'have more money than brains' as he likes to say and you can drive and keep anything you want!
__________________ 2005 MCSC: LSD, Aerokit, Alta CAI and 15%, Magnaflow Catback, Hawk Ceramics, TSW XBrace chassis brace, Kosei K1's w/ Goodyear F1 GS-D3's 1969 Westerly Cirrus: Kappa sails, 155% genoa :-) , CDI roller furl/reef, Yamaha 4 stroke, Interlux Polyurethane, West system Epoxies and glass. MYMINI in a TV Commercial! The "Making of" the commercial :-)
In 1999, I bought a brand new BMW 328i. This was the first year model and I had the same concern about the engine at the time. 8 years and 185K miles later, I would rate the powertrain to be very reliable in general, so much that I'm ordering the new 07 S with the knowledge that BMW builds it and trust them to do their homework before selling to the public. I hope BMW is good to me the second time!
In 1999, I bought a brand new BMW 328i. This was the first year model and I had the same concern about the engine at the time. 8 years and 185K miles later, I would rate the powertrain to be very reliable in general, so much that I'm ordering the new 07 S with the knowledge that BMW builds it and trust them to do their homework before selling to the public. I hope BMW is good to me the second time!
That's what we need around here ...more positive energy.
Comparisons of car hardware/firmware to computers and SW is not really valid. SW has to be reloaded everytime its repowered, firmware does not, its always there, although it can be 'refreshed' to later versions. If no one is maintaining or upgrading to newer versions it should continue with the latest loaded version as long as the card is good.
Firmware is nothing more than the sw hardcoded. ITs still an IT language and the technology gets rapidly outdated.
If i could find the article I would but I know specifically there are concerns that the firmware goes bad ... maybe needs to be reflashed or needed to be updated ... and nobody around to do it.
Yes, but the new engines' designed by BMW & Peugot! That's French! Sorry, couldn't resist.
__________________ 2005 MCSC: LSD, Aerokit, Alta CAI and 15%, Magnaflow Catback, Hawk Ceramics, TSW XBrace chassis brace, Kosei K1's w/ Goodyear F1 GS-D3's 1969 Westerly Cirrus: Kappa sails, 155% genoa :-) , CDI roller furl/reef, Yamaha 4 stroke, Interlux Polyurethane, West system Epoxies and glass. MYMINI in a TV Commercial! The "Making of" the commercial :-)
For me it definitely is a question of:
Will-I-be-able-to-keep-the-car-going-as-long-as-I-want-to?
No matter the money costs, etc. I mean, I plan on falling in love with my new MINI - so I don't want it to end before I'm ready!
And as mmaterella said, this is about passion, not logic. It sounds like the majority of you think it's likely that you could keep the car going, if you had the desire. . . .?
Yes, but the new engines' designed by BMW & Peugot! That's French! Sorry, couldn't resist.
That's interesting because my '99 BMW 328i's transmission was built by Peugeot+BMW in France too. 185K miles later, I have had no problems whatsoever with the transmission. Like I said, because of my experience with the 328i, khowing the partnership with Peugeot doesn't concern me. However, if Mini is owned and built by Peugeot, it would be a different story.
BMW has been very good about keeping parts for it's older cars and I would imagine MINI will do the same. I could still get interior trim parts for a 20 year old BMW. Electronics will be easy, just buy a new or good used black box and plug it in. It's the Hammer & Coop air fresheners and MINI Mints that will be hard to source. Hang on to those in a safe place!
3. I would love to own this car for 30 years - do you think that's even a remotely possible idea? With all of the computer software in these now, and as someone elsewhere mentioned, things like the push-button start, is it realistic to think I could do the repairs needed to have a car that long? How much I throw in to details (like chrome exterior/interior, etc) will greatly depend on how long I think I'm actually gonna have the thing. I'd like to have it be a 'heritage' car, but do you guys think that's possible?
I have the same plan, Nnasir. I intend to own my MINI as long as possible. I only put about 5000 miles on a car per year, so even at 20 years, my MINI will be just reaching 100,000 miles.
I can't imagine any reason to not add the DSC option. It isn't preferred by the racing croud, those who want to be able to purposely go into controlled spins, but on BMW products such as ours, unlike many other cars out there, we can dissable it whenever we choose.
MINI will keep parts in dealer stock for the TRITEC engines 15+ years after it ends production. Count that from year 2009, because the TRITEC continues to be offered in the carry over convertibles.
You may can count on the tritec even longer. From the latest MC2 magazine. "AS exciting as the new mini engine may be the tritec engine is not gone forever,. It will appear in mini convertibles until a replacement engine arrives in a few years time. However, the Chinese manufacturer LIFAN uses this engine in its 520 model and has expressed considerable interest in the Brazillian factory. It is therefore possible tha this engine could reappear in future Chinese imports."
So for all the tritec lovers, you may can still in the future buy a car with a tritec.
I plan to keep my car a long time as well. My new mini will be a second car for me. I think long term, I'd prefer an engine designed by BMW and built in a BMW factory over a Chrysler Engine built in Brazil.
I will admit that the tritec however, has proven to be a reliable workhorse engine.
Firmware is nothing more than the sw hardcoded. ITs still an IT language and the technology gets rapidly outdated.
If i could find the article I would but I know specifically there are concerns that the firmware goes bad ... maybe needs to be reflashed or needed to be updated ... and nobody around to do it.
Yes it is hardcoded and the technology rapdily outdates, but as long as the hardware is good there is no reason to change the firmware. To use the pc analogy I don't like, an old pc will run fine with its original sw, but try to load vista and it will go bonkers. Most older cars still on the road and taken care of that have O2 sensors, fuel injection, etc. have an ECU and have never or will never need a refresh. As long as your version works, there is no need to upgrade. If it does go bad it can always be refreshed to the original version you had. Its not like storing the code somewhere takes up alot of warehouse space, the manufacturer will have it.
Using the same logic you would never buy an automobile made in the United Kingdom given their reputation for poor build quality, remember the TR4 through TR8 as well as the Cricket? In actual fact, BMW is the owner of MINI. They have thrown millions upon millions bringing us the most up to date automobile.
Its the electronics, technology ... software ... that will be the killer
. You know very well that only time will tell that. Maybe ... and maybe not.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
