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One of the criticisms of the R56 was the lack of a temperature guage on the dash. Well don't sweat it - you won't do any better with a pre 07 Mini. I've just read that the temperature guage in the older mini's was nothing more than a glorified indicator light (idiot light if you wish). Its controlled by software, and swings up to mid way, when operating temperature is reached, and to red when the temp gets too high. Edit:Have not read anything about the chrono pack.
So, there is little more information being shared by that gage than an indicator light. The choice being an indicator light, or a phony gage, I have no qualms about having an indicator in my car.
R56 buyers - don't look back!
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greg
Last edited by lava; 02-21-2007 at 04:42 PM.
Reason: add comment on chrono
Both of our MINIs have the Chrono Pack, so that's the only temperature gauge I'm familiar with, but I can vouch that it moves smoothly and continously up the scale as the engine warms up, rather than "hopping" from one pre-set value to another.
What would be cool is to have a switchable digital read out on the display for all the stuff available under ODBII. You could monitor it when wanted or when the car thought it was an issue. You can buy one for $200 it probably would cost $40 for MINI to build it in.
As I understand it the movement is smooth up to mid point, where it stays unless the temperature gets way out of normal range.
Frankly the range where you need precise feedback is from normal to too hot, and in that regard it is no more helpful than an indicator light.
That may be true of the standard temperature gauge (I don't know), but it's certainly not true of the water temp or oil temp gauges in the Chrono Pack. I've never had either gauge go "full hot", but I've had both of them significantly past "normal" while autocrossing, and the motion remains smooth and continous at all readings.
The Chrono gauges almost certainly have electronic senders to convert the fluid temperature into a voltage to drive the needle, but they're not software-controlled.
so just spare us your one sided view for a change.
Your views are pretty one-sided yourself, there. Preferring a gauge with a needle to an indicator light isn't a "bogus" criticism. When I start my commute and it's 5 degrees out, I like knowing when the car has reached normal operating temp, so that I can keep my rpms down until it does.
Maybe if you didn't use such inflammatory language, the threads that you contribute to would be friendlier. Just a thought.
__________________ "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy." - Tom Waits
Your views are pretty one-sided yourself, there. Preferring a gauge with a needle to an indicator light isn't a "bogus" criticism. When I start my commute and it's 5 degrees out, I like knowing when the car has reached normal operating temp, so that I can keep my rpms down until it does.
Maybe if you didn't use such inflammatory language, the threads that you contribute to would be friendlier. Just a thought.
Exactly... a gauge is an indicator on when your automobile reaches normal operating temperature, something an idiot light can not portray. Replacing the gauge with an idiot light is just another cost cutting measure, nothing more. It is also another example of the R56 move away from the sporting heritiage of the R53...
BTW, my standard R53 temperature gauge is fully functional (just like my hood scoop), reflecting the operating temperature of the engine coolant...
When I look over at the water temp indicator on the Chrono Pack and see that the needle's almost vertical, I know that the engine's warmed up. After that, if I see that the needle has moved much away from vertical in either direction, I know that something might not be right, so I can investigate further.
Looking over at an indicator light and seeing that it's not lit up means---exactly squat.
When I look over at the water temp indicator on the Chrono Pack and see that the needle's almost vertical, I know that the engine's warmed up. After that, if I see that the needle has moved much away from vertical in either direction, I know that something might not be right, so I can investigate further.
Looking over at an indicator light and seeing that it's not lit up means---exactly squat.
If that is what the needle would do, then it would be useful. But my understanding is that it won't swing to the right any further than center unless you are into the same kind of condition that would illuminate the temp warning light in the R56.
First, the Chrono water temp indicator swings anti-clockwise as the temperature increases, so it's the area LEFT of 12 o' clock that would concern me.
Second, the swing of the gauge is from 30F to 250F, with "normal" being about 180F or so. The "red" portion of the gauge isn't until 250F, which is probably pretty close to the actuation point for the indicator light in non-gauge-equipped cars.
That gives me a 70F range between "normal" and "your coolant's boiling, dumb*ss" to realize what's happening and take corrective action.
Well *now* you say that..in your first post, you said "you won't do any better with any Mini."
At least the indicator light in the R56 is a two-colour indicator. It turns yellow when the car is "too hot" (at whatever temperature THAT is), and it turns red when the "engine is overheating" (again, whatever THAT means). The owner's manual doesn't even give the temperatures that cause the indicator to turn yellow or red.
Kudos to the MINI designers for at least giving you *some* warning before you start dumping coolant all over the ground. I still prefer a gauge, though.
I imagine that a mechanical warning light as it is costs much more than a light - probably just as much as a legitimate gage. Which makes you wonder why it was not a real gage in the first place.
I just looked through the entire thread and oh boy! All the usual suspects have chimed in to pounce on me. Chris, Slag - did not mean to ignore you - I clicked in from an email notification and landed at the end of the thread.
Look - I did not start this thread to joust with you characters. This temp gage thing has been a constant criticism of the R56 and I started this thread to debunk it. I'm not trying to piss on the R50/53. I'm trying to reassure R56 buyers that have read a lot of criticism this past week, some very well founded, and others like this which is bogus.
The chrono gage has temperatures indicated on it - I certainly hope it behaves like a gage. The basic temperature gage on the center speedo is nothing but an indicator. Thats the language that is used in the MINI sales brochures, and thats what it is. Your argument over this is not with me - I did not make this up to get your goat or something.
So please, cut me a break and lay off with the arguing.
I just looked through the entire thread and oh boy! All the usual suspects have chimed in to pounce on me. Chris, Slag - did not mean to ignore you - I clicked in from an email notification and landed at the end of the thread.
Look - I did not start this thread to joust with you characters. This temp gage thing has been a constant criticism of the R56 and I started this thread to debunk it. I'm not trying to piss on the R50/53. I'm trying to reassure R56 buyers that have read a lot of criticism this past week, some very well founded, and others like this which is bogus.
The chrono gage has temperatures indicated on it - I certainly hope it behaves like a gage. The basic temperature gage on the center speedo is nothing but an indicator. Thats the language that is used in the MINI sales brochures, and thats what it is. Your argument over this is not with me - I did not make this up to get your goat or something.
So please, cut me a break and lay off with the arguing.
No argument here just a clarification... a gauge is an indicator on when your automobile reaches normal operating temperature and in some cases "abby normal" temperatures
I just don't see why you have to call it a "bogus" criticism, when it's quite justified. It's not like this is something that's going to make up somebody's mind against buying the new car, anyway, but it's a valid complaint. That's all.
On a similarly insignificant note, I'd love to know if they changed the design of the (non-self-dimming) rear view mirror so that it flips intuitively forward and back like every other car on the freaking planet, instead of the stupid rotation method that drives me insane every time I have to guess which way to turn it.
__________________ "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy." - Tom Waits
On a similarly insignificant note, I'd love to know if they changed the design of the (non-self-dimming) rear view mirror so that it flips intuitively forward and back like every other car on the freaking planet, instead of the stupid rotation method that drives me insane every time I have to guess which way to turn it.
From the PDF manual released today, it looks like they did not change the way the mirror works.
Could someone please point me to the literature that states that the R52/R53 temperature gauges are glorified indicator lights that do not reflect the true temp? I have read my owners manual & it doesn't say anything like that (in fact the manual reads like I have a working gauge) but I would be interested in reading something factual that states otherwise so I can figure out if my gauge is "bogus" or not.
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Tact is for people who aren't witty enough to be sarcastic...
I am not a fan of the center speedo in the R53 - that is why I ordered my '06 with the chrono package. I have been following the development of the R56 closely and have been disappointed that as of now, there is no chrono package available. Overall, I think that the R56 has a number of pluses, but in my opinion, it also has some negatives (same applies to the R53). I don't hate the R56 and I certainly don't begrudge anyone their purchase of an R56. I expect that MINI will continue to evolve the product and I look forward to more (not less) choices in options that can be ordered.
__________________ RIP (Horace): 2010 MCCSa HzB/B; His (Capt. Jack Aubrey): 2011 MCSa SO/B; Hers (on order) 2012 MCCSa BRG2/B
It does not look like there will be a chrono package, at least not like the old one, since they integrated the speedo with the Nav.
Chris - to me its bogus because the function of the gage like indicator in the R53 and the indicator light are the same. Instead of lights, they used a needle. And hence the criticism is bogus because the people that claimed that they missed a gage because the information it provided were missing nothing. But I agree - if you like the idea of a gage, or the look of a gage, then the R53s indicator is going to be much more pleasing.
But I hope you can understand why some people would see this in the same light as a phony hood scoop.
If it functions the way you say it does, then I see your point. But I echo bamatt's request for proof of what you're saying. Are you suggesting that software dictates the rate of the needle's motion, not engine temp? All I know is, I get in my car every morning and keep an eye on that gauge until the car is warmed up, and I don't rev above 3k rpms until it's at midline. It takes longer to get there on cold mornings. Without a gauge, this functionality is lost, correct? All that the R56 has is an indicator light to show when the engine is too hot?
__________________ "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy." - Tom Waits
Chris - to me its bogus because the function of the gage like indicator in the R53 and the indicator light are the same. Instead of lights, they used a needle.
Again can you please tell me where you are getting this information?
update: nevermind, I just got of the phone with MiniUSA. According to them the R52/R53 temperature gauge is an analog gauge that does reflect the actual temperature in real time so lava, it is not a bogus gauge.
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Tact is for people who aren't witty enough to be sarcastic...
I have heard that the engine in the R56 is so modern that there is no longer a need to warm it up. I've heard this about the newest BMWs as well. Also, on page 36 of the new Owner's Manual, it says:
"Do not let the engine warm up with the vehicle at a standstill. Move off immediately at a moderate engine speed."
So maybe the temp gauge is no longer necessary and an indicator light will do just fine. I will probably still be warming it up due to old habit.
I have heard that the engine in the R56 is so modern that there is no longer a need to warm it up. I've heard this about the newest BMWs as well. Also, on page 36 of the new Owner's Manual, it says:
"Do not let the engine warm up with the vehicle at a standstill. Move off immediately at a moderate engine speed."
So maybe the temp gauge is no longer necessary and an indicator light will do just fine. I will probably still be warming it up due to old habit.
Do folks really not understand the purpose of a gauge vs. an idiot light, and the value it provides? See posts #11 and #14 for details...
Preferring a gauge with a needle to an indicator light isn't a "bogus" criticism. When I start my commute and it's 5 degrees out, I like knowing when the car has reached normal operating temp, so that I can keep my rpms down until it does.
RIP (Horace): 2010 MCCSa HzB/B; His (Capt. Jack Aubrey): 2011 MCSa SO/B; Hers (on order) 2012 MCCSa BRG2/B
