Anyone interested in getting together to get rebuild ktis for Gen 2 Minis I am rebuilding an N14 and there dont seem to be any?

4/9/14
Hi, OK at this point matched sets of PISTONS & RODS from CP CARRILLO with APR head studs
are available. Official CP distributor Realstreetperformance has provided the following link and searches for the different piston options. The rods are a major portion of the cost but they are top notch 300hp per cylinder and light for their class:


http://realstreetperformance.com/Pro...e+1.6L+Eng+Pkg


copy the following into the sites search bar to find the kits, MINI Cooper S R56:


SC7513/BM_BR56_0HS_5454B5S/201-4304
SC7514/BM_BR56_0HS_5454B5S/201-4304
SC7515/BM_BR56_0HS_5454B5S/201-4304
SC7516/BM_BR56_0HS_5454B5S/201-4304


note: there has been a recent price increase at CP

note: pistons come in standard and 0.5mm over


At the moment I am on the fence about the rods. I do have the 10.5:1, 77.5mm pistons and my machinist Charlie Olsen of Olsen Engines likes the CP pistons. There is an option to use Eagle or Scat rods for the B18C but they need some work and are 0.5mm shorter. They need 0.5mm Planed off each side and if you get the CP pistons with 20mm pins they will need to be re-bushed. I did also see ZRP from Europe has rods that might work but the dealer I contacted has not answered my questions about them. I will see about custom rods next.

Hi I have decided to go with Pauter Rods http://pauter.com/ they are a bit different than the others out there. They are making the rods 138mm c-c like the B18C Rods but for the Mini N14. There are some recommendations to lower the compression ratio as much as 9:1 the 138mm will lower the CR to 10:1 the stock is 10.5:1. Pauter makes custom rods so any length is possible, I would not go crazy with shortening rods as it changes geometry but with this set up you can retain the stock type piston tops that have a center space for the super lean direct injection mode. I will update with results once all is together



On the Bearing front 1320MINI out of England lists Mahle Motor Sport connecting rod bearings and said they could get the mains. Suppliers here have been told by Mahle/Clevite that they do not have any. Go figure.


Someone has gone to Peugeot for me and ordered a complete set of bearings for 100E, Check out MINI's Price Hmmm. The Engine is EP6 DT from Peugeot who produce it. The BLACK mains are standard, the GREEN are for cranks with a bit of mileage on them the YELLOW and ORANGE are for polished or turned cranks. Yes I should be giving you sizes but this is what I have.

Onto the valves: I have two cylinder heads, and I have found that the stock valves have dish's or reliefs that are off center so I am looking for alternatives. I have found Intervalves Ag make valves for the N14 engine they are Swiss, so quality should be very good. I think I have used them for an Alfa Romeo build I once did and liked them. I am checking to see if the exhaust's are inconel. But if I have to choose between off center or inconel, I will go with on center.


zzzzzoooommmmm!!!!!!

 

Yes and Yes...i'm finding out during my engine rebuild it's a pain sourcing parts from 5 different vendors.

 

Depends on what is included in the kit. Are we talking uprating everything or just leaving it stock?

 

Hi, I think performance parts would be the way to go. Perhaps CP pistons and rods. ACL performance bearings, on the bearings I haven't found any except factory so it may take a few people to get them to make them. valves might be nice the stock exhaust valves have a deep cup that fills with crud. Gaskets, studs or bolt kits could be sourced. Not sure about a forged crankshaft? I like to change my oil pump not sure where to go for that though? on the wish list perhaps Cat cams, a redesigned carbon fiber valve cover, an electric vacuum pump instead of the cam driven one. Not really sure where to stop?

 

Yeeaaahhhhhh.....

 

If it were me, I would just contact Way at Way Motor Works via telephone. Tell him what you are doing/objectives and let him put a kit together for you. Stick with OEM head gaskets unless you like doing things twice, and the 20 some odd head bolts are not re-usable.

 

OK, It is easy to get carried away. Perhaps the kits could be grouped in different stages.
Stage 1 (bolt or stud set, gasket and seal set, bearings, pistons with rings, oil pump?).
Stage 2 add (Rods, crankshaft, cams, valves?, valve springs?). Any way Please post what you think should be in a kit. other parts could be group buys individually? When I see a few more replies I will start to contact suppliers.
If you are in a build right now, as I am, the bearings are an issue. They should not cost as much as I've seen! I think they are Mahle/Clevite but I have not found a direct order part number anywhere. As far as finding one source unless someone like Clegg take on Mini's it would have to be from separate sources. If Way or Any Supplier is willing to take on getting a kit together I would be quite happy, part of getting a kit and arranging a group buy is getting the best parts at the best price, and encouraging manufacturers to produce parts for MINI's (hopefully) PS. this is a non profit thing on my part.

 

Yeah if you wanna get screwed over and also if you just want to remain slow.

 

I dropped a line to realstreetperformance I think they are interested, and an official CP supplier (pistons,rods) they are looking into Bearings and I asked about stud or bot kits. The more the merrier so talk to your MINI friends. You are keeping your MINI. Any way, has any one heard of using the overboost button to have a double tune on tap, mild and wild? On the bearing front I see that the stock bearings have two sets of colors. (Blue, Black, Green, Yellow, Orange) and (Orange, Brown, Black, Green, Yellow). From the Information I was given I’m supposed to have codes on the top and bottom parts of the block and crank shaft. I only have a code on the top half of the block and the selection chart starts with blue so right......... Note there should be many different flavors of kits this is just a beginning so post your ideas.

 

The cooper i am rebuilding was built on the cut off date given while searching for parts. my hair is on fire and my eyes are bleeding... somebody help me please... any info to give me some idea which side of the roof to roll down will be appreciated:

 

Isn't the 04-08 convertibles come with the R53 Triton engine?

 

Start with realoem.com they have the models listed down to the month of build with parts diagrams and numbers. If we are talking about the Prince engine N14 then it helps to realize that it is a Peugeot, it is best to get bearings from them or I will try and find the place in England that they come from.

 

I am having my engine diagnosed soon. Not sure of its overall health. It runs strong but burns a little oil and it has almost 70K on it. The two options aree obviously to rebuild or buy a rebuilt unit from Mini or JM turbocoopers. I do want better pistons. That is a must.

What are the results some of you have had rebuilding your motors? Can you share some experiences and costs. I don't have a cost for the labor and there aren't a lot of places to go as the tooling varies from shop to shop. Many don't have small enough tools for the N 14.

Thanks from Colorado, DR

 

Here's part of a spreadsheet I use for tracking my Mini costs. I separated tools and included some stuff you might not want to do --- head work, which added about $1K to the job. Prices will vary, depending on your source, but there might be some items you hadn't considered. Head work, A/C service and wheel alignment is the only labor I had done by someone else. The seal puller / installer is only needed when installing injectors --- part of the head work. And, I borrowed an engine hoist from a friend.

My entire upgrade journal, a long pdf file, is here --- https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...a-stuff-2.html
Check it out BEFORE you start rebuilding, especially if you do your own labor.

 

Thanks. I'll read this. After looking in the repair manual and getting some online prices it's fairly obvious that the rebuilt engine might be the best place to start (as opposed to going old school and breaking the thing down and rebuilding it) What is not clear is if the oil pump, vacuum pump and other pricey items need to be re-used or replaced. There are a lot of other items that are convenient to replace. It all makes a new Mini seem so much easier.

 

Hi It may depend a bit on what you want to do. I have been planning a new build to have a second engine but in the process I have been thinking that these engines may just be candidates for good old fashioned re-ringing. At 70k I would think most components will be fine. I would guess that the carbon build up and high piston side forces from the short rod to crank ratio will have caused some wear, you will probably find a few scratches and a bit of carbon on the rings. With the high compression blow by will get out of hand real fast and push oil through the crank case breather system. If you can live with a very light hone on the bores and new rings I would think you could be good to go. I might consider reusing the bearings It sounds blasphemous but mine were in good condition at over 100k and in the end I ended up with the same clearances it is just not normally done. If there is one upgrade it would be be connecting rods and if you like working on your engine ARP head studs. Theses are still relatively expensive engines to rebuild If you buy an already rebuilt engine be sure they have done the work you would do if you rebuild yourself or get a new engine. As far as the head work again at 70k you should be OK have the valves professionally cleaned the direct injection and oil mix means super tough build up. A three angle valve cut is standard most places these days and inexpensive. A bit of porting work would be a good idea. I have had good luck with reducing the flat spot, some bowl and transition work. You should have your bores checked, then the deck and cylinder head for warping, the head needs to be within 18 thousandths, mark the parts of the head that extend past the block before bringing it to a machine shop. Oh the vacuum pump on the end of the exhaust cam should probably be changed if you shop around they can be found for under $200. A new car is a different thing but if you like working on cars then once you learn to take off the front of the car the mini is fun and there is lots to do that I wouldn't do on a car with full warranty. If you are going the new car route let me know what you want for your current Mini. Note: I do think the N14 or N18 is a least an intermediate level engine rebuild project with the crank bed-plate and timing set up. If you are going for power you will need a new clutch and flywheel the stock dual mass has plastic throw out arms. As far as the carbon build up because of the crank case breather set up I think the engine works better with some suction on the crank case, I have found two catch cans seems to help but you need to monitor the engine for carbon build up and run cleaner at each oil change or maybe run water-methanol. When getting parts back from the machine shop always clean and clean again imagine you are a bit of grit and think where would I hide.
Oh I mentioned this elsewhere but when removing the bed plate leave the bolts in just a bit loose there are two small locating pins you don't want to bend as you break the seal. Hmm one thought the crank case suction is regulated by a diaphragm in the valve cover if this is not working right you would suck more oil out into the intake A Mann pro-vent catch can has its own regulator and is an option still only about 80% effective so again add a standard can before it.

 

What kind of performance are you looking to get out of your rebuild ?

 

Not sure who you were asking the question of. I had to replace the turbo and did a lot of research before deciding how to attack the project. I consulted with Arric at JM quite a bit. I replaced the clutch and flywheel first before tackling the turbo and last summer i installed a bigger intercooler, removed the noisemaker and intercooler muffler and installed an Alta RCV with a tap on the intake manifold and a catch can.

Anyway the bottom line is that there are the usual problems with aftermarket parts working together but the car runs good and no CEL so far. I did invest in some dyno time and have the stats. 206+ HP on the top end and 195+ on the torque. Not bad and the car certainly runs better. It pulls powerfully on grade in the mountains. It feels good and the turbo spools up like a tornado on full pedal above 3000 RPM.

Next step some insight on the general motor health, leakdown or compression test and a read on the boost. Then I'll decide on what to do next. At this point it is a labor of love.

 

Hi OK so it sounds like doing an engine build is something you want to do, and you may benefit from getting your hands on all the bits. It is possible to push things to over 300hp and 325ft-lb pretty easily and I think much more would work but you get into fuel delivery, and again the one part that is on the top of my list is connecting rods they are solid chunks of metal but should be thought of as springs. Since your current engine is running do take a look about for a reasonably priced spare with about the same mileage to help keep your down time minimal. The engine pull is fairly straight forward once the body bits are out of the way. There are a minimal amount of connections even the wiring harness can be left on. I could see getting it done in a day once you have done it a few times. If you are well organized and have all the tools on hand I would think a long weekend would be about right the first time. It is a fun pull as the engine just comes forward no need to even remove the hood. So back to your question of cost and goals. I know my thoughts about just seeing about rings seems non performance but by increasing mechanical forces we are using up some engine life so if you find that pulling the engine is as doable as I do, then doing a half life engine build or refreshen as some call it will actually help you get the most out of your build, this will only be possible if the tolerances can be reasonably met, you will have to explain your goals to your machinist but there is some wiggle room with tolerances its just in thousandths and ten-thousanths but a super tight engine is not really the goal but rather one that is just tight enough, fresh rings are a great thing when its possible. You will have to take the time and evaluate where the parts that come out of an engine are at and this is what takes some time and there is no substitute for practice. Your own measuring tools are a good first step but unless you have a machine shop the machinists measurement will be the ones that count and measuring tools need to be used often to get and keep the feel of. As for the next step with these engines I think its about getting more RPM's as safely as possible and here we are fighting the torquey nature of the short rod to crank ratio and perhaps the valve train. Some stiffer valve springs may help but I've seen the Supertechs leave broken bits in race engines and I think its more about harmonics than just stiffer rates you need to have a good chat with a spring engineer. On pistons I think Asymmetrical pistons may be a good thing if they can reduce weight and side loads with on offset center. Coatings are another thought I would start with piston tops to help reduce crud and heat reflection. I think our crankshafts are fine maybe some polishing and balancing because the castings are sharply textured and this will possibly make a finer oil mist. Baffling the oil pump may be wise Ive never had the engine light come on but after hard cornering with the engine at high rpms Ive found an ecu code come up when checking the data. I do like my CP forged pistons and Pauter rods I have no complaints about noise with my set up. Lowering the compression may be helpful Im a few points lower and its fine. The ECU will vary the dynamic pressure a bit so it depends on final ecu work. Finally or firstly consider the oil and its weight that you are thinking of using it needs to be turbo safe but weights are somewhat flexible and condition based. I think Air flow is sort of its own topic but think of the whole route its easy to look at the intake and exhaust separately but they are one thing. I do apologize for rambling on all over the place but until the engine is apart and cleaned up its just hypothetical. Oh if you use the Bently manual the torque on the two smaller timing chain rail bolts to the block is more like 15ft-lb not 22.1ft-lb and I've found Two numbers for the crankshaft end bolt which looks different than the original so try and check with a dealer service tech some people have a key dowel made. When shopping I found an almost $1000 dollar difference for the bits but figure in shipping Oh use realoem.com for the parts numbers.

 

Hmm what about getting a dealer rebuilt for now and then doing a rebuild on your current engine, it would be great if you could find out where they come from and have them install custom rods $3500 ish is possibly a good deal depends on what they do they never answered my questions but I am almost thinking of getting one and taking it apart to see then just changing the rods and adding ARP head studs the only down side is the cost of consumables shipping and stuff so Maye $4000 + rods and studs. I would only pay 800 or so max for the used motor with about 70k as these are going to need a rebuild so are not a straight replacement. There is still a lot to learn about how the Mini works by rebuilding its Engine. You can spend over $2000 on just shocks so How to rationalize? I would still consider an early refreshen as part of the work I would do it say at 40-50k then everything should have little problem measuring up and you could make changes as you go. There is still nothing like rebuilding an engine though for fun in my book.

 

Couldn't agree more! Altho, the "fun" might not be realized until well after the task is completed, and all the wounds have healed. Hazards of a "shade-tree" mechanic.

 

Used motor run anywhere from 25-3500.
Rods are around a 1000
Pistons wrings and wrist pins. About 650
Bore and hone. 440
Heads studs and mains studs. 400 for both
Schicks cams. 937
Valve springs. Keepers retainers. 375

 

Sorry.
Bore. Hone. And balance the crank rod and piston assembly. 440. Can't just swap those parts out. The weights are to far off from OEM parts

 

Yes balance up the whole Assembly including the flywheel if possible as a unit. But the weight of stronger rods is just a necessary evil although there are a whole host of powdered metals that could be possibly used before getting to titanium but I don’t know of anyone that does this yet, but we could start asking. I have had good luck with checking the weight of parts on 4 cylinder engines and having the crank done separately after polishing as they are inherently simpler than say an 8 cylinder engine the final harmonics will only be apparent under load as the whole unit can be considered a spring. Just look at the deposits on the tops of most direct injection pistons and you will be off balance by a scary amount I guess its important to change the harmonic balance wheel before it gets a chance to stiffen up. I always imagined a perfect balanced and smooth running engine but then you get into harmonics. As for going straight to a bore any material that can be spared will mean more life before having to get new liners many shops use diamond hones in their honing machines, I’ve been told this can bridge the gap between boring and honing stones but I don’t have my own machine shop. At 2500 there is no point in a used engine I have seen r56's at 5500 still running so a whole car makes way more sense and I’ve seen a few too many direct injection engine insides now to think you will be getting anything other than a core to be rebuilt unless perhaps you get one from someone who really knows their stuff.

 

I don't seem to be having an issue with finding people. It's been done several times. Just not as extreme on the street like I'm currently doing as we dpeak