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Same here, not buying the software issue since it runs once started so not the cold start issue.
It almost sounds like the battery or alternator is bad. There's enough of a charge to get it started at first, but then not enough going back in (or battery is not holding a charge) on the next time she starts and it gets progressively worse.
I would think though that the dealer would start with the simple/easy stuff first when diagnosing....
It got their editor's choice rating... sure, they didn't like the lack of telescoping steering wheel and $30 iPod cable. You think they'd prefer the "car breaks down in the first 24hrs/week/1500 miles/etc." and the $300+ iPod cable features of the Mini?
__________________
2009 MCS, Pure Silver, 6MT, Premium and Sport packages
First all, Thanks for the concerns. This obviously isn't a life or death matter, it's pretty trivial considering all real things in the world but nonetheless, it's important to my mother so therefore it becomes important to me.
Here's the scoop.
I called and spoke to the service manager, Billy. The guy was very cordial, very polite, returned phone calls when he said he would and quite frankly, honest.
I've been in the automotive industry for almost 30 years. I've owned enough different cars to fill a dealership. The last thing I want is to be patronized or given some BS... Billy did neither.
Here's what happened. He did some checking and went to the service director. By the of the morning, they had contacted Mini USA and gotten in touch with a regional rep, a field engineer and some other people that could help.
There is indeed a "glitch" in the software for 2010 MCS's for a certain production month (s). Unfortunately, mom's car falls into that.
What they are going to do is have the car picked up today or tomorrow and have their engineers come to install it to make sure that is really going to fix it.
This may or not may cure the problem immediately, I'm not sure and I'm hopeful that it may.
What I am happy about is the fact that they escalated the seriousness of the problem and are making an effort to do something about it rather than making her sit 30 days waiting.
She's happy with that as am I. It's still disappointing, it's still an inconvenience but it's a car.... there's bound to be something wrong somewhere, sometime.
I remember on my '09 when I took my first trip and the fuel pump died. Though it was disappointing at the time, the amount of happiness my car has given me outshines any grief I had to endure and I'm confident mom will feel the same once she gets it back.
So, may not be fixed but we are moving in the right direction.
Works for me!
Mark
__________________
You know you're a racer if...When you refer to everything in life unmodified as "stock" or “factory.” OSCAR’S REBUILD
Awesome Mark! Glad to hear they made that statement. You just comfirmed what I had heard about some 2010's and the software issues. I still wonder what was changed to cause this problem on some 2010's and the JCW Stage 1 kit. Thanks for the update and let us know when they get it fixed.
__________________ Rowan, 2008 Chili Red/black roof MCSa, Convenience package, Sport package, automatic, Checkered cloth, bonnet stripes, rear fog lamps, auto air, and a few more things! NM springs and swaybar, Bilstein struts, Helix IC, JCW Stage 1 kit and RMW tune.
Last edited by futuremini; 09-10-2010 at 04:05 PM.
Problems w/ a new car suck. I my 09 came w/ TWO bad fuel tank sensors. Once the guage got down to 4 hashes it would be empty in about 5 miles. I ran out of gas twice because of that! One was in the middle lane of the Garden State Parkway (NJ). FUN. Dealer fixed and that has been my only mechanical issue so far...
o wait, the timing chain tensioner also....
ok thats the only things wrong w/ my car.
HPFP hasn't failed yet on this car... (it did on my 07) haha
MINI ON!!!!
__________________ "Hailey" my 09 MCS - Horizon Blue -Premium/Sports/Cold Weather Package, Bluetooth/iPod and Piano Black
Mods: Lumbar Retrofit, 4" Alta Antenna, Chrome Black Out, Craven Speed iPhone Mount, Alta Intake & AccessPort
Planned Mods: Alta Cat Back Exhaust, Oil Catch Can, JCW Steering Wheel...
It got their editor's choice rating... sure, they didn't like the lack of telescoping steering wheel and $30 iPod cable. You think they'd prefer the "car breaks down in the first 24hrs/week/1500 miles/etc." and the $300+ iPod cable features of the Mini?
Good point. Most reviews of the car are very positive. Ive been lurking in the Gen owner forums and while the sedans have had issues with rear suspensions and navigation s'ware, the coupe has had the normal "new car" issues that seem minor in comparision (hood alignment, proximity keys, etc) with what we've had to put up with here as of late. The only major mechanical issue is the Aisin 6-speed manual and grinding gears (the auto is a ZF). And I look at it this way: unlike our tenuous Prince motors, the 3.8L Lambda V6 is tried and true, with hardly any major issues in its fairly long life cycle so far.
A solid mill is the basis for a solid car, and I dont consider the Prince solid.
Mark dont mean to hijack the thread, but I and many other MINI owners I know are getting fed up with what we percieve as an inferior product, and are searching for alternatives. Keep us posted with your mother's car. While Im sure it'll be resolved, how long to do this seems to be the issue
__________________ I say, boy, you dont seem to be apprehendin' the general gist of what I'm tryin' to convey here. Maybe you oughta take a second, let your head catch up to your tongue before it gets all sunburnt. That was a joke, son, I say - a joke! Nice boy, but he's about as sharp as a sack o' wet mice.
Well I was pretty excited that they were making a move forward. I had been speaking to the service manager and we were on the same page that it should be about 2-3 days.
I called my mother to tell her what had transpired and she told me she just got off the phone with the service director and he said it would be 2-3 weeks.
Uh, I don't think so....
So I call the service director and asked him to get together with his service manager and figure out who doesn't know what the hell is going on. Which is it, 2-3 days or 2-3 weeks?
So by this afternoon I hadn't heard anything back and happened to read this thread again.
Thanks to nevert00fast, I read the previous posts and relayed that message to both the service director and manager.
Interesting they say.... let us go check on it and we'll get back to you. An hour later I get a phone call and with a discussion between them, the tech(s) and Mini, they decide that the IRAP solution is the best solution to try.
Funny how when I asked that since it was a software issue, why couldn't the software be reloaded, I got that "don't ask stupid questions" look.
Anyway, Thanks everyone and nevert00fast, MUCH appreciated.
They have to follow protocol and it won't be till Tuesday at the earliest that they'll be able to try it but we'll see soon enough.
Mark
__________________
You know you're a racer if...When you refer to everything in life unmodified as "stock" or “factory.” OSCAR’S REBUILD
Late to the party with this one (after my first post). After talking to some people there is indeed a "glitch" for certain 10s. Seems to be specific with the autos.
Anyways I was going to suggest asking questions including IRAP. It's what we have/had to do for new E70 LCI X5s when installing a trailer hitch.
I'm at least thankful you had a satisfying experience with the service manager. To echo what I've said before, there are still people who care working at dealers. Best of luck to Mark and his mother
__________________
Full time MINI enthusiast, and now proud owner! Alta CAI, JCW Exhaust, Resonator Delete, Alta AP
No problem Mark, I'm glad they're heading in the right direction and hopefully they can get your mom back in her Mini very soon. From what my SA told me, they didn't have the updated software at the dealership. So they had to setup an internet link to do the IRAP getting the software from else where. The whole process takes about 2-3 hours since it's a remote link. I had the car back for about 2 weeks now and so far it's been holding up. -Tom
Thanks bud, that's great news to hear. I know I'd be upset if I bought a new car and had an issue like that already but I feel even worse since I'm the one that set everything up, from choosing the car to paying for the car.
She doesn't blame me and it's not my fault but I just wanted her first mini experience to be smooth.
Hopefully they'll get this done and it'll be out of everyone's hair soon.
Again, thanks for the heads up.
Mark
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevert00fast
No problem Mark, I'm glad they're heading in the right direction and hopefully they can get your mom back in her Mini very soon. From what my SA told me, they didn't have the updated software at the dealership. So they had to setup an internet link to do the IRAP getting the software from else where. The whole process takes about 2-3 hours since it's a remote link. I had the car back for about 2 weeks now and so far it's been holding up. -Tom
__________________
You know you're a racer if...When you refer to everything in life unmodified as "stock" or “factory.” OSCAR’S REBUILD
Last edited by orangecrush; 09-10-2010 at 09:32 PM.
Reason: Just an edit... when I say paying for the car, I don't mean with my money...lol.
Maybe we should have a separate forum category to handle threads like this rather than having them available to the new members who are stilled thrilled with their new MINI's. Why scare them?
__________________ SCOOTER2009 MC, Chili Red/White, Automatic, Cold Weather, MFSW, Sport Seats, Center Armrest, 25.5mm Rear Sway Bar, Falken Azenis RT-615, Valentine V1, Now Alive and Well in Salt Lake
Maybe we should have a separate forum category to handle threads like this rather than having them available to the new members who are stilled thrilled with their new MINI's. Why scare them?
Ben,
I'm sorry but that's probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on here. What, we should shield them from the truth like little children?
The mini is a GREAT car but like any other mechanical device or automobile, it is not without it's fault.
This isn't a bad post. We bought a new car, brought it up that we had a problem and within a day or so, we've come to a resolution on how to fix it.
I don't care how much I like my mini or any other car, I'm not going to "not discuss" it's downfalls like some pervert uncle that isn't invited to family reunions and pretend it doesn't exist.
No sir, people who are newbies should be aware of the problems and that way they can learn how to fix them. (though I'm not a newbie here and on my 4th mini, I wouldn't have found the IRAP solution without reading it here)
So no, no "hiding" the truth.
There, I said it.
Mark
__________________
You know you're a racer if...When you refer to everything in life unmodified as "stock" or “factory.” OSCAR’S REBUILD
Really? That's the best your dealer could come up with?
Honestly it's tough on me to read stories like this. Sure- every car can come with some bugs right out of the box. These problems should be fixed immediately with top notch customer service from their dealership. This doesn't include a blanket statement with crutch type words like "glitch".
On the flip side she may have a car that needs smoothing over- it is not ideal and puts you in a rough spot, I know, and I'm truly sorry, but it could be the case. Let the dealer come to, what I hope, a solid conclusion of what's causing this. Then we can start pin pointing the wrong doings of this situation.
I can imagine the frustration and needing to vent. I always look forward to your unbiased opinions on everything pertaining to the MINI enthusiast. That's why I hope in the coming days I'll see this updated with a happy ending.
As a side note- I'm in no way affiliated with any effected parties. I just really hope to reasonable conclusion.
Do you honestly work in a MINI dealership
__________________
2003 R53 - DS - 135K + Miles
Parts of MINI NOT Modded ( A Shorter List ) Block/Head/HK Stereo.
First all, Thanks for the concerns. This obviously isn't a life or death matter, it's pretty trivial considering all real things in the world but nonetheless, it's important to my mother so therefore it becomes important to me.
Here's the scoop.
I called and spoke to the service manager, Billy. The guy was very cordial, very polite, returned phone calls when he said he would and quite frankly, honest.
I've been in the automotive industry for almost 30 years. I've owned enough different cars to fill a dealership. The last thing I want is to be patronized or given some BS... Billy did neither.
Here's what happened. He did some checking and went to the service director. By the of the morning, they had contacted Mini USA and gotten in touch with a regional rep, a field engineer and some other people that could help.
There is indeed a "glitch" in the software for 2010 MCS's for a certain production month (s). Unfortunately, mom's car falls into that.
What they are going to do is have the car picked up today or tomorrow and have their engineers come to install it to make sure that is really going to fix it.
This may or not may cure the problem immediately, I'm not sure and I'm hopeful that it may.
What I am happy about is the fact that they escalated the seriousness of the problem and are making an effort to do something about it rather than making her sit 30 days waiting.
She's happy with that as am I. It's still disappointing, it's still an inconvenience but it's a car.... there's bound to be something wrong somewhere, sometime.
I remember on my '09 when I took my first trip and the fuel pump died. Though it was disappointing at the time, the amount of happiness my car has given me outshines any grief I had to endure and I'm confident mom will feel the same once she gets it back.
So, may not be fixed but we are moving in the right direction.
Works for me!
Mark
Great news Mark. Contrary to what CINCINATTIMINI stated before, SA's are not in the habit of suggesting a diagnosis if not fairly certain of the outcome. They would just say they are not sure and stipulate further diagnosis by the tech.
Glad to hear he was on target and moving forward with a solution.
Best of luck, your Mom's car sounds awesome. I just gotta see this interior
__________________
2003 R53 - DS - 135K + Miles
Parts of MINI NOT Modded ( A Shorter List ) Block/Head/HK Stereo.
There must be some sort of mis-communication on my end here. Gray Raven; when did I say the SA would be the one to suggest a diagnosis? From what I gathered Mark called to ask about a problem and the SA told him there was a glitch and the fix is coming in 30days. That is what upsets me.
We have had no reports of this issue at our dealership which is why this was news to me. So I inquired with some more people and came to the same conclusion as what his dealer is saying.
I'm still trying to figure out what I said that would confuse you.
__________________
Full time MINI enthusiast, and now proud owner! Alta CAI, JCW Exhaust, Resonator Delete, Alta AP
I'm just following this because as an engineer, I'm interested in the final solution. It's highly possible, since this affects a small number of production weeks, that an electronic part, somewhere on the car (probably somewhere in the ignition system, engine, or transmission) had to be replaced. MINI might have been using a certain part by a certain supplier and a shortage made them revert to another similar part. While electronics generally are the same, a small switch like that might have caused an issue with software compatibility. Instead of a part that they know works with the software, the replacement part had some minor difference that made stuff go awry. The software reload may reset the part, it may be a different software entirely (even if it was a single code of line changed, it may make all the difference), or they're just doing a typical hardware fix: cycle the power and reload and retry.
This would also explain the reason behind the lag and everyone having a different timeframe answer. Due to the small number and possibility it's a hardware/software issue there may not be a standard "fix-all" and i'm sure there's some prep work behind the software reload. Also, look at Mark, he's never heard of this before despite his MINI record..this may be a first with the dealer. 2-3 weeks gives them time to figure it all out.
Just an engineers $.02, I have no background knowledge on the issue/MINI engineering, just trying to propose a solution behind the solution.
__________________
2011 LsB/Blk ClubmanS - Premium, ColdW, Sport, 17" 5-star, black bonnet stripes, auto-dim side & rearview mirrors, roof rails, USB/BT, center armrest
Ordered: 08/28/2010 Born: 09/14/2010 Delivered: 10/02/2010
"Clubby" (I went bonkers during the order process, had to chose a reasonable name so the co-workers think I'm back to normal)
I'm just following this because as an engineer, I'm interested in the final solution. It's highly possible, since this affects a small number of production weeks, that an electronic part, somewhere on the car (probably somewhere in the ignition system, engine, or transmission) had to be replaced. MINI might have been using a certain part by a certain supplier and a shortage made them revert to another similar part. While electronics generally are the same, a small switch like that might have caused an issue with software compatibility. Instead of a part that they know works with the software, the replacement part had some minor difference that made stuff go awry. The software reload may reset the part, it may be a different software entirely (even if it was a single code of line changed, it may make all the difference), or they're just doing a typical hardware fix: cycle the power and reload and retry.
This would also explain the reason behind the lag and everyone having a different timeframe answer. Due to the small number and possibility it's a hardware/software issue there may not be a standard "fix-all" and i'm sure there's some prep work behind the software reload. Also, look at Mark, he's never heard of this before despite his MINI record..this may be a first with the dealer. 2-3 weeks gives them time to figure it all out.
Just an engineers $.02, I have no background knowledge on the issue/MINI engineering, just trying to propose a solution behind the solution.
From what I understand it has to do with a miscalibration between the DME and the sensor/s that effect the reading only on hot starts. I was lucky that the dealer I got the car from already dealt with this issue before, so they already knew what needed to be done when I dropped the car off. They actually did the IRAP that day and I got the car back the same afternoon.
Yup. Software "glitches" in items like this, where thousands exist without a "glitch" and run smoothly everyday, are usually due to a hardware part being faulty in some manner. In this case, some sensor somewhere. Possible the supplier had a bad batch too, which also supports the fact only certain weeks are affected.
Just important to remember that in this case, the dealer probably doesn't have a whole lot to work with. It's a small issue (in terms of affected numbers), it's probably not something MINI has counted on popping up, and sounds like a true engineering snafu. Software/hardware relationships are never perfect and sometimes they end up bad. And man, you mess up a software reload on a car and you could toast it even worse than before.
I do hope it gets resolved OP, although it sounds like a fix is coming.
__________________
2011 LsB/Blk ClubmanS - Premium, ColdW, Sport, 17" 5-star, black bonnet stripes, auto-dim side & rearview mirrors, roof rails, USB/BT, center armrest
Ordered: 08/28/2010 Born: 09/14/2010 Delivered: 10/02/2010
"Clubby" (I went bonkers during the order process, had to chose a reasonable name so the co-workers think I'm back to normal)
Really? That's the best your dealer could come up with?
Honestly it's tough on me to read stories like this. Sure- every car can come with some bugs right out of the box. These problems should be fixed immediately with top notch customer service from their dealership. This doesn't include a blanket statement with crutch type words like "glitch"......
I was making reference to these statements CincinnatiMINI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CincinnatiMINI
Late to the party with this one (after my first post). After talking to some people there is indeed a "glitch" for certain 10s. Seems to be specific with the autos.
and
Quote:
Originally Posted by CincinnatiMINI
There must be some sort of mis-communication on my end here. Gray Raven; when did I say the SA would be the one to suggest a diagnosis? From what I gathered Mark called to ask about a problem and the SA told him there was a glitch and the fix is coming in 30days. That is what upsets me. .... I'm still trying to figure out what I said that would confuse you.
Your first response to OP's issue makes no mention of being upset over any 30 Day time frame. If that is genuinely what your concern was you made no prior mention of it. You did however clearly accuse the dealership of "making up" a preliminary bs diagnosis.....
Service writers/advisors may make possible suggestions over the phone, and rarely go out on a limb until the car can be seen. And they have nothing to gain by referring to unexplained issues with a boiler plate response of: "It's a glitch in system", as you insinuated unless it actually could BE ONE....
My suggestion CincinnatiMINI, is not be so quick to pass judgments and see how things pan out first before passing such judgement. Most times issues like this have ways or working themselves out without inflaming the issue and stoking the fire with conjecture and accusations.
My speech for the day. Glad to hear the "dealers Crutch" as were said, may be the solution.........
__________________
2003 R53 - DS - 135K + Miles
Parts of MINI NOT Modded ( A Shorter List ) Block/Head/HK Stereo.
Got a call from the Mini service dept. in Tampa today. Mom's car is done. I'm a little confused though.
The service director said that the IRAP is a temporary fix but the tech said it was the real fix... not sure but in either case, if it works long enough until they come up with a real fix, that works for me.
Mom can get her car back and the world is fine now...lol.
Just wanted to say thanks again to nevert00fast for the link to IRAP.
Mark
__________________
You know you're a racer if...When you refer to everything in life unmodified as "stock" or “factory.” OSCAR’S REBUILD
Got a call from the Mini service dept. in Tampa today. Mom's car is done. I'm a little confused though.
The service director said that the IRAP is a temporary fix but the tech said it was the real fix... not sure but in either case, if it works long enough until they come up with a real fix, that works for me.
Mom can get her car back and the world is fine now...lol.
Just wanted to say thanks again to nevert00fast for the link to IRAP.
Mark
Glad to help. Mine is holding up so far with the IRAP. But I still do see the rpm dip lower than usual sometimes, but after the IRAP it catches it instead of letting it stall.
Rowan, 2008 Chili Red/black roof MCSa, Convenience package, Sport package, automatic, Checkered cloth, bonnet stripes, rear fog lamps, auto air, and a few more things! NM springs and swaybar, Bilstein struts, Helix IC, JCW Stage 1 kit and RMW tune.
I say, boy, you dont seem to be apprehendin' the general gist of what I'm tryin' to convey here. Maybe you oughta take a second, let your head catch up to your tongue before it gets all sunburnt. That was a joke, son, I say - a joke! Nice boy, but he's about as sharp as a sack o' wet mice.
Alta CAI, JCW Exhaust, Resonator Delete, Alta AP
SCOOTER 2009 MC, Chili Red/White, Automatic, Cold Weather, MFSW, Sport Seats, Center Armrest, 25.5mm Rear Sway Bar, Falken Azenis RT-615, Valentine V1, Now Alive and Well in Salt Lake
