ATF Fluid - Partial drain/fill
#27
09-19-2010, 08:45 PM
Two day struggle. . .
Hey guys,
Soooo I won't get into details just yet of the results of the fluid additive as I only drove around for an hour. But I do believe it's smoother/easier shifting
.
I didn't want to get in over my head with full tranny fluid change so I used LUBEGARD which is compatible for our vehicles and it only takes a tiny amount of additive.
Anyhow I spent the past couple days trying to get that DARN bolt off
. The perfect combo for me was.... a T55 socket, the "socket converter" to make it so that you can use a wrench on the T55 and MAKE SURE!!!!!! to get a 3/8" drive socket for the T55. If you get the 1/2" drive socket you may run into the same issues I had where the socket hits against the side of some metal piece down there. Once I made the final trip and got a 3/8" drive T55 socket and tried again.....PRESTO 
BTW I pushed on the wrench and my dad held the wrench steady on the bolt. It was a lot of work/time/effort but when you hear the crack of the bolt loosening you forget all that 
. Also as someone else mentioned .....that hole WILL NOT take that much fluid at one time...thank goodness I only was adding an additive because it took forever to use what I had.
Bottom line: I have piece of mind, the tranny will actually make it to 100K and beyond, and ITS SOOO MUCH FUN TO DRIVE
Sorry for the long post....it was a rough job and I'm excited ! I DID EET!
Soooo I won't get into details just yet of the results of the fluid additive as I only drove around for an hour. But I do believe it's smoother/easier shifting
. I didn't want to get in over my head with full tranny fluid change so I used LUBEGARD which is compatible for our vehicles and it only takes a tiny amount of additive.
Anyhow I spent the past couple days trying to get that DARN bolt off
. The perfect combo for me was.... a T55 socket, the "socket converter" to make it so that you can use a wrench on the T55 and MAKE SURE!!!!!! to get a 3/8" drive socket for the T55. If you get the 1/2" drive socket you may run into the same issues I had where the socket hits against the side of some metal piece down there. Once I made the final trip and got a 3/8" drive T55 socket and tried again.....PRESTO BTW I pushed on the wrench and my dad held the wrench steady on the bolt. It was a lot of work/time/effort but when you hear the crack of the bolt loosening you forget all that . Also as someone else mentioned .....that hole WILL NOT take that much fluid at one time...thank goodness I only was adding an additive because it took forever to use what I had. Bottom line: I have piece of mind, the tranny will actually make it to 100K and beyond, and ITS SOOO MUCH FUN TO DRIVE
Sorry for the long post....it was a rough job and I'm excited ! I DID EET!
#28
10-13-2010, 08:55 AM
Finally got the fill bolt off using the T55 socket and hex cap with 10mm ratcheting wrench combo. What a PITA! I still have scars! Was able to drain 2 qts, 5 oz fluid at room temp. None of the mentioned filler funnels worked on the curve to the hole. I used my ancient ATF filler tube, which is a 2 foot long gray hose, same diameter as the funnel ends, with a small cup on the end that holds about 8 oz fluid. It took about a half hour to pour back the 2 qts + 5 oz! I used Mobil 1 synthetic ATF. I have some Toyota T-IV and planned to do several drains, with a Mobil 1 finish, but it was such a pain I now plan to do only 3 with Mobil 1. That will get 85% of the fluid. Will drive a week or 2 before the next one. Have not driven it yet as it is on blocks and the rear interior removed for sound deadening. Finally able to stop the amp from rattling after the dealer failed twice!
#29
10-15-2010, 11:04 AM
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This is a fantastic write up.
I really appreciate that information I never thought of it - changing
out the resevoirs routinely. I am going to implement this one.
There was a question asked early on I forget exactly. But this is
the exact procedure that is used on a 99 BMW 3 series. Nobody there
seemed to measure the temperature of the fluid, they measued the
temperature of the transmission case. I think that transmission
was made by GM.
They made a big deal about dropping the pan and getting every last
drop of old trans fluid out or it "ruins the whole transmission".
I'm not sure if our cars are old enough yet after the trans oil changes
for this to manifest itself.
I just wanted to mention it in case anybody thinks something up.
I really appreciate that information I never thought of it - changing
out the resevoirs routinely. I am going to implement this one.
There was a question asked early on I forget exactly. But this is
the exact procedure that is used on a 99 BMW 3 series. Nobody there
seemed to measure the temperature of the fluid, they measued the
temperature of the transmission case. I think that transmission
was made by GM.
They made a big deal about dropping the pan and getting every last
drop of old trans fluid out or it "ruins the whole transmission".
I'm not sure if our cars are old enough yet after the trans oil changes
for this to manifest itself.
I just wanted to mention it in case anybody thinks something up.
#30
10-18-2010, 06:33 PM
Dropping the pan still won't get nearly all the fluid out... because there is lots of fluid in the torque converter all the time. So, without a flush system, there really is no practical way to get "every last drop of fluid out".
I don't think it matters. Triple drain / fill means you have about 80% new fluid. If you do that regularly, you'll be fine. I'm going to do a double drain/fill about every 20,000 miles from here on out.
I don't think it matters. Triple drain / fill means you have about 80% new fluid. If you do that regularly, you'll be fine. I'm going to do a double drain/fill about every 20,000 miles from here on out.
#31
10-24-2010, 05:58 PM
Did the second drain and fill, went a lot faster now that I have passed the learning curve. Still takes forever to put 2 quarts back in thru a straw. Maybe if there was a pump....Now at least it has 4 quarts of synthetic Mobil ATF 1 mixed in which is substantially more robust an ATF than the Toyota T-IV (JWS 3309)that was OEM from Aisin. Shifts are smoother than ever. Should be good for another 20,000 miles or trade in, whatever comes first.
A Note: I used year old Mobil 1 ATF that is listed as Toyota T-IV compatible on the bottle. The new re-formulated version no longer claims Toyota T-IV compatibility on the bottle. However you may find either bottle on store shelves, so read the back of the bottle to see it Toyota T-IV is listed.
I would use Redline D4, Royal Purple, Amsoil or Shaeffer's synthetic multi-vehicle formula ATFs.
This is from bob is the oil guy.com and has a link to the new Mobil 1 specs.
Here is a link to the latest PDS on the M1 ATF. They have made some recent changes to what they recommend it for.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Synthetic_ATF.aspx
As you can see they have dropped many of the previous vehicle recommendations, especially imports, and now only spec this as a dex/merc type fluid versus a universal multi-vehicle fluid.
A Note: I used year old Mobil 1 ATF that is listed as Toyota T-IV compatible on the bottle. The new re-formulated version no longer claims Toyota T-IV compatibility on the bottle. However you may find either bottle on store shelves, so read the back of the bottle to see it Toyota T-IV is listed.
I would use Redline D4, Royal Purple, Amsoil or Shaeffer's synthetic multi-vehicle formula ATFs.
This is from bob is the oil guy.com and has a link to the new Mobil 1 specs.
Here is a link to the latest PDS on the M1 ATF. They have made some recent changes to what they recommend it for.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Synthetic_ATF.aspx
As you can see they have dropped many of the previous vehicle recommendations, especially imports, and now only spec this as a dex/merc type fluid versus a universal multi-vehicle fluid.
Last edited by clutchless; 10-25-2010 at 06:44 AM. Reason: Correction
#32
10-26-2010, 09:47 PM
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#33
10-19-2011, 01:57 PM
If anyone's reading this old thread, I just did a partial drain/refill on a 2010 Cooper. Actually, more than that; I replaced the transmission pan and gasket, since my daughter managed to cave in the pan and I wanted to be safe.
Due to the bogus "lifetime" label BMW puts on this transmission and its fluid, what should be a quick and easy job is a major PITA. And apparently, many dealers invoke the "lifetime" label to refuse to do a drain/refill for you. Unlike any other auto trans I've seen, this transmission has no dipstick to check the level, nor a dipstick tube through which to add fluid. It's designed to be virtually sealed unit. I did all this with the car and transmission cold and without warming the new fluid.
1) T55 Torx socket to remove and install the fill plug. Make sure you first verify that you can/want to take this plug out before you drain the fluid or you will be a most unhappy camper. The plug is located on the top of the transmission, just to the driver's side of the cylinder head, under the coolant return hose and basically beneath the snorkel for the airbox. You will not be able to get a ratchet nor an extension on it. I put a socket hex cap in the Torx socket and used a 15mm box end wrench to turn the cap. An extension magnet is handy for when the socket falls off and you can't get your hand in to retrieve it. If you're okay with manipulating this plug, proceed.
2) A 5mm Allen socket to remove the drain plug and the overflow tube. And a torque wrench to cinch up the plug when you're done. You may want to get a new washer for the plug before starting. I re-used mine and it's fine.
3) Fluid to replace what you drain out. How much will that be? Probably only between 2-3 qts. Controversy here; BMW says you will void your warranty if you use anything other than Mini fluid, which is $60 (no misprint) a quart. They also claim this fluid includes special additives specific to the Mini transmission, to distinguish it from Toyota T-IV fluid and many others which seem to be, and maybe actually are, identical to the Mini fluid. Since I am still under warranty, I bit the bullet and used Mini fluid. You can do what you choose. I know others have used Toyota T-IV or other spec 3309 fluids.
4) Jack up the front of the car as high as you can, put it on jack stands, and open the drain plug so fluid flows into your catch pan. The higher you lift the front end, the more fluid you'll get out. If you have a pan with measuring lines, the better, because you're going to try to buy and put back only as much fluid as you get out.
5) When the flow stops, you're next going to take out the overflow tube. This approx. 2"-long plastic tube sticks up into the transmission pan and is threaded into the drain plug hole and holds back any fluid that's below the top of the tube. Take your Allen socket and insert it into the drain hole and turn counter-clockwise to loosen the overflow tube. It should turn easily by hand, but be careful, you don't want to mangle this tube. When the overflow tube comes out the drain hole, so will a lot more fluid.
6) When the fluid flow stops, replace the overflow tube by carefully inserting it and threading it back into the drain hole. Just tighten it lightly by hand using the socket; it's not going anywhere and is held in place by the drain plug anyway. This overflow tube is essentially your measurement device for refilling the transmission. Do not install the drain plug.
7) Now lower the car so it's level and contemplate refilling the tranny. This is the lifetime part, as it takes a lifetime to refill it. Seriously, it took me over an hour of basically dripping fluid into this hole to fill it. If you go too fast, you'll have fluid all over your transmission, pooling up in the valleys that make up the casing. You're going to need flexible tubing that will fit in the refill plug hole and a funnel that will fit in the tubing. Once you get that figured out, start adding fluid. Oops! Spilled all over, didn't it? Slow down and start again, maybe with a beer to pass the time.
8) Keep adding fluid until you hear fluid trickling out the drain hole. You have now added enough fluid so that the level in the pan is sufficient. You know this because fluid has risen over the top of the overflow tube and is coming down through it and out the drain hole. Go ahead and install the drain plug with the washer and torque to spec. I didn't know what spec was, so I used 20 lb/ft. But, you're not done.
9) Now, go back to the top side and continue adding fluid until you have added as much as you drained out. It may take approximately forever, but it will happen. When this miracle occurs, put the plug back in with the Torx socket and the box end wrench and clean up the fluid you spilled on the top of the transmission. You are done and will have achieved a new level of patience.
Anyone reading, please feel free to correct/augment these instructions.
Due to the bogus "lifetime" label BMW puts on this transmission and its fluid, what should be a quick and easy job is a major PITA. And apparently, many dealers invoke the "lifetime" label to refuse to do a drain/refill for you. Unlike any other auto trans I've seen, this transmission has no dipstick to check the level, nor a dipstick tube through which to add fluid. It's designed to be virtually sealed unit. I did all this with the car and transmission cold and without warming the new fluid.
1) T55 Torx socket to remove and install the fill plug. Make sure you first verify that you can/want to take this plug out before you drain the fluid or you will be a most unhappy camper. The plug is located on the top of the transmission, just to the driver's side of the cylinder head, under the coolant return hose and basically beneath the snorkel for the airbox. You will not be able to get a ratchet nor an extension on it. I put a socket hex cap in the Torx socket and used a 15mm box end wrench to turn the cap. An extension magnet is handy for when the socket falls off and you can't get your hand in to retrieve it. If you're okay with manipulating this plug, proceed.
2) A 5mm Allen socket to remove the drain plug and the overflow tube. And a torque wrench to cinch up the plug when you're done. You may want to get a new washer for the plug before starting. I re-used mine and it's fine.
3) Fluid to replace what you drain out. How much will that be? Probably only between 2-3 qts. Controversy here; BMW says you will void your warranty if you use anything other than Mini fluid, which is $60 (no misprint) a quart. They also claim this fluid includes special additives specific to the Mini transmission, to distinguish it from Toyota T-IV fluid and many others which seem to be, and maybe actually are, identical to the Mini fluid. Since I am still under warranty, I bit the bullet and used Mini fluid. You can do what you choose. I know others have used Toyota T-IV or other spec 3309 fluids.
4) Jack up the front of the car as high as you can, put it on jack stands, and open the drain plug so fluid flows into your catch pan. The higher you lift the front end, the more fluid you'll get out. If you have a pan with measuring lines, the better, because you're going to try to buy and put back only as much fluid as you get out.
5) When the flow stops, you're next going to take out the overflow tube. This approx. 2"-long plastic tube sticks up into the transmission pan and is threaded into the drain plug hole and holds back any fluid that's below the top of the tube. Take your Allen socket and insert it into the drain hole and turn counter-clockwise to loosen the overflow tube. It should turn easily by hand, but be careful, you don't want to mangle this tube. When the overflow tube comes out the drain hole, so will a lot more fluid.
6) When the fluid flow stops, replace the overflow tube by carefully inserting it and threading it back into the drain hole. Just tighten it lightly by hand using the socket; it's not going anywhere and is held in place by the drain plug anyway. This overflow tube is essentially your measurement device for refilling the transmission. Do not install the drain plug.
7) Now lower the car so it's level and contemplate refilling the tranny. This is the lifetime part, as it takes a lifetime to refill it. Seriously, it took me over an hour of basically dripping fluid into this hole to fill it. If you go too fast, you'll have fluid all over your transmission, pooling up in the valleys that make up the casing. You're going to need flexible tubing that will fit in the refill plug hole and a funnel that will fit in the tubing. Once you get that figured out, start adding fluid. Oops! Spilled all over, didn't it? Slow down and start again, maybe with a beer to pass the time.
8) Keep adding fluid until you hear fluid trickling out the drain hole. You have now added enough fluid so that the level in the pan is sufficient. You know this because fluid has risen over the top of the overflow tube and is coming down through it and out the drain hole. Go ahead and install the drain plug with the washer and torque to spec. I didn't know what spec was, so I used 20 lb/ft. But, you're not done.
9) Now, go back to the top side and continue adding fluid until you have added as much as you drained out. It may take approximately forever, but it will happen. When this miracle occurs, put the plug back in with the Torx socket and the box end wrench and clean up the fluid you spilled on the top of the transmission. You are done and will have achieved a new level of patience.
Anyone reading, please feel free to correct/augment these instructions.
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mebaku (02-28-2019)
#34
10-19-2011, 06:45 PM
My local MINI dealer will change the auto trans oil for almost 500 dollars. For the moment Im going to stick to Lubegard as it has a proven history of protecting the auto transmission for at least 100k miles. I know how hard it was to just get the 5oz in the filler hole so Im not excited to change it right now.
#36
10-19-2011, 07:31 PM
Where would you buy one? The dealer? I couldn't find it online. However I'm thinking of buying a pump you would use for a differential to pump fluid in the tranny.
#37
10-19-2011, 07:51 PM
If you cannot find one at a Dealer then try a junkyard. Then there is the machine shop way to go; take out the plug and make another one using the original as a pattern for the threads.
#39
10-20-2011, 04:41 AM
It would seem that boring out some Alu Rod and tapping it for a hose fitting and then running the O.D. through a Die is a Do-It-In-your-Garage item. Doesn't need hex nut since finger tight should do it. Perhaps a simple marketable tool? Might need a vent hole to relieve excess pressure from pumping?
#40
10-20-2011, 01:20 PM
Here is a link from Passatworld on chaning the ATF in the VW version of our transmission. http://www.passatworld.com/forums/91...ilter-diy.html
Looking at this I think it may be faster to use their tool to squirt most of the ATF in thru the drain hole, then finish up filling thru the microscopic fill hole on top of the trans.
Here are two more sources for OEM equivalent fluid as the VW 09G transmission is the same Aisin model as ours with only a difference in the cooling system and ability to add fluid. http://www.bimmerspecialist.com/part...0025%20A2/7085
These are both conventional fluids, same as OEM and T-IV. I cannot believe MINI claims their $60 fluid has special additives over T-IV to justify a price increase of $55 over the Toyota dealer usual price of $4 to $5 a quart.
Looking at this I think it may be faster to use their tool to squirt most of the ATF in thru the drain hole, then finish up filling thru the microscopic fill hole on top of the trans.
Here are two more sources for OEM equivalent fluid as the VW 09G transmission is the same Aisin model as ours with only a difference in the cooling system and ability to add fluid. http://www.bimmerspecialist.com/part...0025%20A2/7085
These are both conventional fluids, same as OEM and T-IV. I cannot believe MINI claims their $60 fluid has special additives over T-IV to justify a price increase of $55 over the Toyota dealer usual price of $4 to $5 a quart.
Last edited by clutchless; 10-20-2011 at 01:29 PM. Reason: update
#41
10-20-2011, 01:26 PM
Here is a link from Passatworld on chaning the ATF in the VW version of our transmission. http://www.passatworld.com/forums/91...ilter-diy.html
Here are two more sources for OEM equivalent fluid as the VW 09G transmission is the same Aisin model as ours with only a difference in the cooling system and ability to add fluid. http://www.bimmerspecialist.com/part...0025%20A2/7085
These are both conventional fluids, same as OEM and T-IV. I cannot believe MINI claims their $60 fluid has special additives over T-IV to justify a price increase of $55 over the Toyota dealer usual price of $4 to $5 a quart.
Here are two more sources for OEM equivalent fluid as the VW 09G transmission is the same Aisin model as ours with only a difference in the cooling system and ability to add fluid. http://www.bimmerspecialist.com/part...0025%20A2/7085
These are both conventional fluids, same as OEM and T-IV. I cannot believe MINI claims their $60 fluid has special additives over T-IV to justify a price increase of $55 over the Toyota dealer usual price of $4 to $5 a quart.
#42
10-20-2011, 01:53 PM
I was wrong. The VW and the MINI use the same cooling system that circulates coolant thru the transmission to both warm it up faster and keep it cool. Here is a link to the VW trans manual. Look at page 76. http://docs.jayzone.eu/erWin/VW/Jett...rbox%2009G.pdf
#43
10-20-2011, 04:17 PM
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Not sure that "fill" hole on the top of the transmission case will lend itself to pumping in fluid. I don't know why, but there was precious little drainage when adding fluid through that hole. Maybe because the tranny innards so fill the case, the fluid has little room to drain. Or perhaps it's the lack of venting at the fill hole that causes such slow filling. Maybe heating the fluid would make it more viscous and flow better.
#44
10-20-2011, 04:56 PM
Not sure that "fill" hole on the top of the transmission case will lend itself to pumping in fluid. I don't know why, but there was precious little drainage when adding fluid through that hole. Maybe because the tranny innards so fill the case, the fluid has little room to drain. Or perhaps it's the lack of venting at the fill hole that causes such slow filling. Maybe heating the fluid would make it more viscous and flow better.
I believe I mentioned the possible need for a vent hole of some sort (maybe a tube?).
#45
10-20-2011, 11:48 PM
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It would seem that boring out some Alu Rod and tapping it for a hose fitting and then running the O.D. through a Die is a Do-It-In-your-Garage item. Doesn't need hex nut since finger tight should do it. Perhaps a simple marketable tool? Might need a vent hole to relieve excess pressure from pumping?
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...63&hg=24&fg=15
#47
10-21-2011, 05:33 AM
#48
10-21-2011, 06:40 AM
I just ordered that VW fill tube that screws into the drain pan. Next time I do the ATF fluid change, in 3,000 miles, (I will have 40,000 then, I did it at 20,000 the first time). I plan to measure how much drains before I remove the fill level tube. Then measure the additional fluid that comes out after I remove it. Then when I refill I will use the VW fill tube, a plastic hose and a fluid pump for differential fluid to pump in that amount of fluid that first drained out. Then seal up the pan and drip in the remaining fluid from the top. I think this method should speed up the process of re-filling the transmission. I will post an update afterward.
#49
10-21-2011, 07:06 AM
I just ordered that VW fill tube that screws into the drain pan. Next time I do the ATF fluid change, in 3,000 miles, (I will have 40,000 then, I did it at 20,000 the first time). I plan to measure how much drains before I remove the fill level tube. Then measure the additional fluid that comes out after I remove it. Then when I refill I will use the VW fill tube, a plastic hose and a fluid pump for differential fluid to pump in that amount of fluid that first drained out. Then seal up the pan and drip in the remaining fluid from the top. I think this method should speed up the process of re-filling the transmission. I will post an update afterward.
Let us know how that VW part works!