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I love my Mini but I really believe the JD rankings, I've never seen a new car have so many problems right out of the gate.
Me too. I had the cold start issue and it was fixed. I have several trunk rattles, a driver door rattle, the entire roof panel rattles and now I have a rattle in the dash. Im in love with the the image of the Mini, but falling out of love with my Mini rapidly. It came with a door ding in the Drivers side rear quarter panel upon delivery and I had to have it fixed on day one. Where is Quality Control?
The controls were crazy to learn and the day I picked my car up, it was thunderstorming....NOT the best day and way to learn how to operate the wipers! Now I know how to operate all the controls. The funny thing I find now is that when I get into my other cars to drive, I forget where their controls are and reach to the center to open a window! Frustrating but it does make me laugh at times.
My car has 8,000 miles and is only 10 months old. I will probably sell it if the rattles are not fixed at the next scheduled Mini service.
__________________ '08 BMW M Coupe Alpine White/Imola Red|Nav| Loaded- Weekend Fun
I have never seen so many people have issues about controls and such I bet you all know how to program your DVR though Come on people you own a Mini, not a Honda or a Toyota. When we picked up my wifes new Mini, by the time we got home from the dealership, 180 miles, I could do anything on the car. There is a thing called the "manual". I heard some people complain about the big speedo on the other "JD" thread, ITS A MINI!
I have never seen so many people have issues about controls and such I bet you all know how to program your DVR though Come on people you own a Mini, not a Honda or a Toyota. When we picked up my wifes new Mini, by the time we got home from the dealership, 180 miles, I could do anything on the car. There is a thing called the "manual". I heard some people complain about the big speedo on the other "JD" thread, ITS A MINI!
So, were you driving while your read the manual?
In spite of this being a German designed car, form does not follow function for many of the controls. It is more like form follows cute. Much ergonomics has been sacrificed for what someone though looked cool. The row of toggle switches looks good, but putting window controls where they cannot be easily reached from the driving position is a bad design.
I don't have a problem adapting to different controls. My Dad had a 1967 Citroen DS21, and I loved driving that car. It was a Bauhaus inspired design with many unusual controls. The difference was that they made sense, and were generally improvements over commonly used control designs.
Attributing poor design to its MINIness, is an argument I do not find convincing. The whole idea of the original Mini design shows a lot of influence from the form follows function idea. Its most innovative design aspect was the transverse engine. This was a major contribution towards the goal of making a very small economical car. It wasn't just done to be different. It was done to be efficient, and allow more room for passengers. Style over function is not part of the Mini heritage.
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Robin Casady Bombadil: 2007 MINI Cooper S, R56, Pure Silver, LSD, Wood Shift Knob, Rota Slipstream 16x7, NAV, HIFI...
In spite of this being a German designed car, form does not follow function for many of the controls. It is more like form follows cute. Much ergonomics has been sacrificed for what someone though looked cool. The row of toggle switches looks good, but putting window controls where they cannot be easily reached from the driving position is a bad design.
I don't have a problem adapting to different controls. My Dad had a 1967 Citroen DS21, and I loved driving that car. It was a Bauhaus inspired design with many unusual controls. The difference was that they made sense, and were generally improvements over commonly used control designs.
Attributing poor design to its MINIness, is an argument I do not find convincing. The whole idea of the original Mini design shows a lot of influence from the form follows function idea. Its most innovative design aspect was the transverse engine. This was a major contribution towards the goal of making a very small economical car. It wasn't just done to be different. It was done to be efficient, and allow more room for passengers. Style over function is not part of the Mini heritage.
She wouldn't let me drive it About the window controls, since this is the way its been since the reintroduction back in 2002, I think people should be used to it now The only thing I have found annoying on her car is that you can no longer "one touch" the sunroof I do agree that the new R56 interior is too "cute" compared to R53, but its still functional in my book I strongly think that "quirkness" is part of the Mini experience. I mean, come on, look at the center speedo Non Mini people have looked at her car and LOVE it! They LOVE the toggle switches, both sets. I dont know, I feel the Mini experience is a give and take, take the quirkness and a few rattles and then smoke the crap out of them on the backroads
Rental cars get high marks in JD Power initial quality ratings. The Mini is indeed a little harder to figure out than the average car, and suffers in ratings like this for that reason. Personally I don't care about most of the stuff they use in this rating event. Cars that I like can score low because of things that I personally care nothing about. Most people just read the summary/numbers but in fact they may hate the cars that score best once they drive them for awhile.
__________________ April 07:MCS SS/B/Tuscan Beige/Cream colorline interior/Manual/Conv Pkg/Premium Pkg/17" Flame Spoke/LSD/Chrome Line/English Oak/Xenon/HiFi/Anthracite Headliner. African Blackwood/Amboyna burl inlay shift knob and ebrake handle by Robin Casady (see my gallery) 19mm H-sport rear asb, Bridgestone Potenza G019 Grid non-RF tires. HTC Incredible phone.
Rental cars get high marks in JD Power initial quality ratings. The Mini is indeed a little harder to figure out than the average car, and suffers in ratings like this for that reason. Personally I don't care about most of the stuff they use in this rating event. Cars that I like can score low because of things that I personally care nothing about. Most people just read the summary/numbers but in fact they may hate the cars that score best once they drive them for awhile.
It annoys me that almost every time I see a car commercial, I see that JD Power and Associates "Best in Initial Quality" trophy at the end, like I just did in the Nissan commercial I saw 5 minutes ago.
If that many cars are "Best in Initial quality," according to JD, it really is meaningless. After almost a year with my car, I'm still realizing it can do more.
Now I get it. While the MINI is German engineered, it's BRITISH made! Every British car I've ever known anything about - Rovers, Triumphs, MG's, Jaguars etc. - were a blast to drive, but broke down all the time.
I'm wondering if the MINI is just following tradition...
Sure hope mine, due for delivery in about 3 weeks, doesn't follow suit.
Last edited by bottomfeeder1; 06-25-2009 at 10:12 PM.
I was thinking the same thing. They seemed to have captured the true " flavor " of the British motoring experience.
I took delivery of mine on 6/20 my first repair ( battery ) was on 6/22 and it is scheduled to go in for another problem on 7/1. Looks like the alternator is going bad. Probably a bearing.
" Lucas electric the prince of darkness " ahhh...this brings back memories
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2009 MC OB/B only option MCSW
2001 Corvette Z 06
1970 Dodge Coronet 383
1969 Dodge Superbee
1977 Dodge Power Wagon
1973 VW Super Beetle ( had since new )
To be fair mine sat in a mall as a display for 6 months without ever running and I knew this up front and the car was discounted to make it attractive even with the wear it suffered as a display. I think the battery died because they never charged it over all that time and the alternator issue is no biggie. On the plus side mine seems to be solid. Zero rattles so far!
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2009 MC OB/B only option MCSW
2001 Corvette Z 06
1970 Dodge Coronet 383
1969 Dodge Superbee
1977 Dodge Power Wagon
1973 VW Super Beetle ( had since new )
I picked up my 2009 MCS last month and I'm satisfied overall however I have a few points to mention:
1. The trunk latch started to rattle at 1800km and adjusting the latch cannot resolve the issue (the latch hook on the hatch is hitting the latch housing)
2. I have a very light vibrating rattle that started in the dash (around the tach) which I can only reproduce at exactly 4000rpm +- 100rpm
3. The trunk was missing the right side rubber stopper (apparently was never installed from the factory!). The dealer provided me with the missing part.
On the engine side, everything is top notch so far... cross fingers!
I agree! It took me awhile on the test drive to figure out how the turn signals work. Then before the drive my car had the auto ac, which the fan and temp controls looked like dials...so I was trying to roll the dial instead of pressing it... I eventually gave up (I pieced it together when I got my car with the standard AC). Auto AC has rocker switches that look like dials, while the standard AC has dials...
I can see why it came in dead last. Any car that makes you "feel" stupid because you don't know how to work the controls isn't going to fair very well.
I consider myself to have a lot of common sense, logical with average to above average intelligence. I too write and deploy software.
It was probably a marketing person who came up with this bright idea. I can't see any good engineer purposely misleading anyone. It would have to be a team of them conspiring together to get buy in from MINI management. This reeks of Marketing.
NOTE: After reading some of the posts, it seems there are two camps. In the one camp, intuitive design and layout should be inherent in the design of the MINI. In the other camp, ... "its a MINI, get used to it". It is clear which camp has the majority judging by the JD Powers survey. To appeal to more of the mainstream market, MINI will need to reassess their approach. I know my wife is a "point and shoot" type of person. She would be befuddled in the MINI and its cuteness would wear thin on her after having to ask me for the nth time how to get to the <take your pick> setting.
This is not hard for MINI to fix. The day to day use and operation of the car should be designed as non-thought provoking, then they should add the "cute" stuff. Take the VW Beetle for example, a car with some personality. I though the flower holder was silly when I first saw it. But now, I am envious of their interior. It is setup for driving FIRST, then they added the "cute" stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by j730d
I was interested in seeing how folks here would react to this review.
"Initial Quality: Taken from the Initial Quality Study (IQS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 90 days of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems that have caused a complete breakdown or malfunction, or where controls or features may work as designed, but are difficult to use or understand."
What I get from that is complex non-intuitive controls rank as bad as a breakdown in the initial quality phase of this review.
I have to say the MINI is the least intuitive vehicle I've ever driven. The problem of having to have an owner's manual with you and video's to explain the windshield wipers etc. would lead to a last place ranking I would think.
I'm a guy that for 20 years has designed user interfaces for software, trained a lot of folks on how to use computers and so on, but the interface for the MINI is from outer space as far as I'm concerned.
Cute gadgets don't get it. It's a fun car to drive, and appears to be well made - but the designers of the controls need to go back to school as far as I'm concerned.
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1989 4x4 tire gauge "Blowhard" | metal color | Made in China | R.I.P
1998 Tire gauge "Whistler" | Born in China 07/16/1988 | chrome with white face | psi | vinyl carrying case | 2 extra valve stem caps (i found near the pay air pump) |
2009 Digital tire gauge on order "psssssst" | Plastic gray | Week 52 delivery |
My wife found this in our local paper at http://tiny.pl/36lh That link will go out of date in about 7 days so here is the article verbatum.
Mini at bottom of quality study
New York -- For Mini, the maker of sporty -- if sometimes eccentric -- pint-sized hatchbacks, landing at the bottom of another closely watched vehicle quality study this week is almost a point of pride.
Mini says it deliberately engineers quirks into its cars, like oddly placed dashboard controls or unusual interior lighting, that drag down its ratings in such studies. But Jim McDowell, vice president of Mini's U.S. operations, said those design features are central to the brand's personality.
"Mini has some idiosyncrasies that we engineer into our cars," said Jim McDowell, vice president of Mini's U.S. operations. "We want to make our cars remarkable little cars."
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Coop is a box stock 09 MCS.
I'm just an old guy that likes good equipment!
When we got Coop we were talking to one of the employees and she got off one of the funniest comments about cars I've heard.
"I like German cars. I drive a BMW because of the quality. My boyfriend's dad has a couple of Ferris in the garage. You can't housebreak those things. Even when they are just setting not being driven they still make messes in the floor."
Folks I just about passed out from laughing.
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Coop is a box stock 09 MCS.
I'm just an old guy that likes good equipment!
Now this makes me laugh, a Beetle and driving in the same sentence A Mini can out drive a Beetle with flat tires
Go back to putting more stickers on your car.
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1989 4x4 tire gauge "Blowhard" | metal color | Made in China | R.I.P
1998 Tire gauge "Whistler" | Born in China 07/16/1988 | chrome with white face | psi | vinyl carrying case | 2 extra valve stem caps (i found near the pay air pump) |
2009 Digital tire gauge on order "psssssst" | Plastic gray | Week 52 delivery |
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1989 4x4 tire gauge "Blowhard" | metal color | Made in China | R.I.P
1998 Tire gauge "Whistler" | Born in China 07/16/1988 | chrome with white face | psi | vinyl carrying case | 2 extra valve stem caps (i found near the pay air pump) |
2009 Digital tire gauge on order "psssssst" | Plastic gray | Week 52 delivery |
MINI's interior design is certainly a bit eccentric and some of the control functions may not be the most intuitive, especially on first contact with the car. But after a period of adaptation, you become accustomed to MINI's quirkiness and all works smoothly. Personally, I appreciate the retro-originality of the car's interior: Even though testers unfamiliar with the car may find the controls or displys confusing, I find them perfectly functional, now that I know how everything works. I t justtakes a littel familiarization.
There are those on this board who have experience problems with their new MINI's, and we have heard about it exhaustively. Many others, myself included, have never had significant problems. These happy experiences, greatly in the majority, I believe, are seldom documented here, so the board tends to become a forum for problems to an extent which does not proportionately reflect the experience of the total corps of MINI owners.
My MCS - April 07 build - now has 24K miles. I have changed oil and filters about half a dozen times and changed the winshield wiper inserts once. That's it. The car has been impeccable. Zero problems, not even a good rattle. I've owned a number of Japanese cars, and none has been as problem-free as my MCS has been to date. YMMV, but in my experience MINI build quality is excellent. It's hard to see how the J.D. Power rating is relevant.
What I find unacceptable for a fairly new car, seeing that mine is still less than a year old, is rattles coming from every direction in the car. I have attempted to isolate them so I can have them (hopefully) fixed at the next service appoint. (Several from the boot, one in the drivers door, one in the sunroof, one in the dash.) Unfortunately, my next service appointment is this week because I am now experiencing ANOTHER rattle in my engine that is similar to before I had the Cold Start Issue remedied 2 months ago. It is coming from the left side of the engine as was before. While I understand that a car is still a man made object, prone to problems, I find that I have had more with this Mini in the first year of ownership that any other car I have ever owned.
One issue that baffles me why Mini has not corrected, is the fact that the doors will not stay open unless FULLY opened at a 90 degree angle! Why will they not stay open at 45 degrees? I get my leg bashed every time I go to get out of the car unless I remember it is not going to stay open. I remember more frequently now since Im tired of bruises on my calf.
Quirkiness I can get use to...Poor initial quality and quality during the first year, I find harder to stomach.
__________________ '08 BMW M Coupe Alpine White/Imola Red|Nav| Loaded- Weekend Fun
MINI's interior design is certainly a bit eccentric and some of the control functions may not be the most intuitive, especially on first contact with the car. But after a period of adaptation, you become accustomed to MINI's quirkiness and all works smoothly. Personally, I appreciate the retro-originality of the car's interior: Even though testers unfamiliar with the car may find the controls or displys confusing, I find them perfectly functional, now that I know how everything works. I t justtakes a littel familiarization.
Although I think highly of the JD Power awards, I think MINI's have special details to consider when looking at such results. For example, MINI's aren't for everybody and it takes a special type of car owner like someone who sees a long term value in a car for it's history and uniqueness rather than someone who sees long term value in a car for it's reliability. And those type of drivers are usually more intently perfectionistic in their approach when taking good care of their MINI. I myself panicked at the site of "grease" falling from the side of my R56 and reported it to my local dealer recently and I've only had it for 2 months (4,500 miles.. I know I drive a lot). MINI drivers are also enthusiasts of sporty driving but not to the point of choosing a car with boring aesthetic details such as a Civic Si or a Mazda Mazdaspeed 3 (although I do love those cars both).
Simply put, the type of car owners we, MINI owners, are... I believe we're more likely to complain about a minor problem such as a grease leak from the bonnet as opposed to a Toyota owner who'd probably will be satisfied with washing their car every time they see a grease leak out of their car. They care less about keeping their cars in pristine condition for a long period of time than we do.
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NAPOLEON
2009 Horizon Blue MCS: sport | manual | HIFI
HzB Member #8
The MINI is extremely unique and designed to a different standard than most other cars. Yes, it took a bit of time to figure out all the functions in the cockpit but now it is second nature. I actually enjoy having a car that is so different and yet so much fun. Yes the doors shutting are irritating, yes a rattle or two can be a problem but at the end of the day, this is the first car that I have owned that has really made me enjoy my motoring experience....and that says a lot coming from 2 sport sedans. It is superbly engineered, fun and very very unique. I would never go back
Mini Me - 2008 Laser Blue/Black MCS - 6 sp Auto, Multi-Function Steering Wheel, Piano Blk/Anthracite, Black JCW R105 Double-Spoke 18-inch Wheels on Pirelli PZero RF
I bet you all know how to program your DVR though 
Come on people you own a Mini, not a Honda or a Toyota. When we picked up my wifes new Mini, by the time we got home from the dealership, 180 miles, I could do anything on the car. There is a thing called the "manual". I heard some people complain about the big speedo on the other "JD" thread, ITS A MINI! 
The only thing I have found annoying on her car is that you can no longer "one touch" the sunroof 
I strongly think that "quirkness" is part of the Mini experience. I mean, come on, look at the center speedo 
April 07:MCS SS/B/Tuscan Beige/Cream colorline interior/Manual/Conv Pkg/Premium Pkg/17" Flame Spoke/LSD/Chrome Line/English Oak/Xenon/HiFi/Anthracite Headliner. African Blackwood/Amboyna burl inlay shift knob and ebrake handle by Robin Casady (see my gallery) 19mm H-sport rear asb, Bridgestone Potenza G019 Grid non-RF tires. HTC Incredible phone.
"Scarlett"
