Start-Stop feature- what the heck???

[Dr Obnxs]

Originally Posted by JCR1960

From what I read recently in one of the major car magazines was that MINI USA didn't see any real fuel savings benefit from the start/stop feature so that was why it isn't available in the U.S.

The way the EPA drive cycle is defined it doesn't improve gas mileage. But about 10% of the gas we carry around is burnt up while idling, so in real world driving, it's a huge savings. I'm bummed it didn't come here when it first came out.

Really, this is a great idea. Why run the engine if it's not needed? You get a combo starter/alternator, and actually reduce the mechanical complexity of the car.

Matt

ps, most of the "i don't want it" excuses I hear are based on fear that the system won't work and we'll end up stranded becuase it's some electronic wizardry. Do the math on how often a computer fires a spark in you car (all done with electronic wizardry) and it's really millions of time without issue. Not all change is bad change, some is good change. I think this is good change....

[dvhone]

When I first read about it in the brochure I was planning on getting it, as it seemed like an excellent idea. I was really disappointed when I read the fine print that it was not available on North American equipped cars. I read somewhere on the web that MINI thought that North Americans wouldn't want this option. Maybe they're right, maybe people like me who would want this are in the minority over here...but I can't think why, cutting down on tailpipe emissions just seems like the right idea...though I really don't understand it when I see people at malls etc just sitting there waiting for someone/thing with their engines running and windows open. Don't they know they're just burning gas needlessly

[markusw]

I'm sad that this isn't offered for the US market. I really see this option going beyond improving mileage.

1. A married man like myself could sit in his car (while waiting on his wife to finish shopping) and enjoy music without burning fuel or draining the battery or joining her in shopping. I could even keep the car cooled with the electric ac, or the automatic ac would turn the engine on if the car gets too hot inside.

2. On cold days, I could have the car start warming up the passenger area and melt the snow off the windshield a half hour before I plan to leave for work.... of course I would lock the car before leaving it running (comfort access). The advantage is the car will stop the engine when it is at operating temperature and can run the defrosters. In fact, I'm planning on doing this anyhow without the start/stop feature.

3. Sometimes when I'm driving around town, I'll see someone I know and have a conversation in the parking lot while still in our cars and fail to turn off my car. I'm sure it would save a lot of fuel .

In the real world, I see this option being used beyond the red light and stop sign. That is with the assumption that engine kicks on when the battery is low. These comforts have me wondering why I didn't get a Prius.... Oh yeah, styling and fun .

[Benibiker]

You can do it yourself, just press the start/stop button . I use to do that when gas hit $4.35 here and I would always get stuck at this 5-7 minute traffic light. Probably hard on your starter and no A/C...

[kidnaper]

Originally Posted by mellowmcs

you can turn it off and on ;)

ever notice that blank button in front of the shifter

Isn't that blank for DCS or something? One of the electronic options for stability?

[checkercoop]

I definitely think the idea is great and it would have many uses, but I could see it having ill effects on the engine overall. If you drive the car hard in the city, you may never keep it at the optimal temp and be hurting the engine in higher rpms in the long run. Other than that it's a great idea and glad it will at least have an on/off button so you can decide when you want it in use.

[Dr Obnxs]

currently, the injectors on our engine are shut off during engine breaking, unless the car isn't warm, then they still squirt to help get it to temps when it runs cleaner.

The start/stop only cuts in when you go to a stop, and are stopped in neutral with your foot on the break and the clutch out. This means that it only really works when you anticipate a longer time at rest, not the rapid on and off that many think it means.

I don't know but I'd guess that it doesn't shut off when the A/C is running, but I don't know for sure.

In the US, about 10% of the gas we use is burned when the car is at idle. This would reduce that significantly (although not to zero, because of the short duration idle times and other conditions that wouldn't trigger the system).

If all cars had this, it would lower overall oil use by about 2%. (about 80% of oil is used for transportation, and 60% of that goes to the light vehicle fleet). That seems small, but it's not.

Matt

[Btwyx]

Originally Posted by Dr Obnxs

The start/stop only cuts in when you go to a stop, and are stopped in neutral with your foot on the break and the clutch out. This means that it only really works when you anticipate a longer time at rest, not the rapid on and off that many think it means.

I thought it was handbrake on, not foot brake.

In other parts of the world (such as England) drivers are taught to throw it into neutral and put on the handbrake, whenever coming to a stop. I could have failed my driving test if I hadn't done that, and friends have been known to query my habit of still doing it. With a habit like that, the start/stop would cut in for me, even on quite short stops.

[mellowmcs]

Originally Posted by kidnaper

Isn't that blank for DCS or something? One of the electronic options for stability?

the blank middle one is for the start/stop feature.

[Angib]

Here in England, my new R57 has stop/start. Of course it takes some getting used to as sitting waiting for the lights to go green with a dead engine just doesn't feel right at first. It does take a fraction longer to start from a dead engine, because although the engine has already started by the time you press the clutch and put the car in gear, the engine revs haven't stabilised and so you have to learn how to engage the clutch in this condition. Like anything, you quickly get the hang of it.

The 'rules' by which the stop/start works are a maze and frankly it's fun to try to work out what the engineer had in his mind when setting them up:
- yes, the stop/start still operates with the A/C on, at least with the basic A/C I have;
- the stop/start only requires the footbrake, not the handbrake;
- the major 'rules' are stationary+footbrake-on+neutral+clutch-out;
- rolling to a stop in neutral, it's fun to see when the engine stops (a dashboard symbol lights up the moment the ignition is cut);
- rolling down a slope in neutral, the engine is automatically restarted at about 3 mph, as with the engine cut out, the power assistance to the steering disappears (why, when it's electric?);
- the stop/start won't operate when the engine is cold, but it's amazing how soon it starts working, certainly less than 1 mile in British summer temps (=US spring temps, eh?).

I sometimes visit properties that require lots of gate-opening on private tracks, so I don't put my seat belt back on. Once the no-seat-belt chime starts bonging (do you have that in the US?), the stop/start no longer works. I wonder what that rule is for?

Andrew

[Btwyx]

Originally Posted by Angib

- the stop/start only requires the footbrake, not the handbrake;

Does it work with the handbrake, and not the footbrake as well?

Once the no-seat-belt chime starts bonging (do you have that in the US?),

They certainly do, its caused more than a few threads and some heated controversy around here.

[Angib]

Yep, stop/start works fine with the handbrake... but that brings in another set of rules (I'm avoiding the word 'algorithm'), this time for the 'hill assist' function.

When the stop/start activates, and the car is on a slope, it holds the brakes on for a second or two when you engage first gear (I think Subarus have had something like this in the US for a long time), so the car doesn't roll back. Fairly convenient, though it's another thing to learn how to use as the first few times you stall the car until you learn how many extra revs to use to overcome the light brake friction. Plus the degree of slope seems a bit variable - after two months I still can't predict 100% when the hill assist will function on shallow gradients.

And if you apply the handbrake, the hill assist doesn't work - I guess their logic is that you don't need it when you're releasing the handbrake yourself.

Of course I'm making this all sound difficult when it's just the typical familiarisation that you need to do on a new car. I already notice that other peoples' cars have something wrong with them, as their engines don't stop at traffic lights like they should. And don't get me started about when I'm sitting behind them on a pedal bike breathing their exhaust...

Andrew

[pilotart]

Would think that BMW/MINI would figure out how to offer Stop/Start on the Automatic as well. I do stop the engine when I know the wait might exceed a minute or two, just have to slip auto to 'N' and hold foot brake to start.

Studebaker had a "Hill-Hold" with manual transmissions from 1936 until 1966 (when they stopped auto production), it just held brake line pressure (simple valve at bottom of clutch travel) until you released clutch.

My Drivers License had expired while I served my draft and I had to take a driver test in 1967 San Francisco. I hired a Driver School to provide a car and it happened to be a 1964 Studebaker.