"I'm in hot..."

[pete v]

When I was flying F-4's in the Navy, we would call "in hot" when we rolled in on a target and planned to drop ordnance. Well, I decided to "roll in hot" and took internet bids on a special order '09 Clubman S: BRG/silver, premium, convenience, tuscan leather, and arm rest.

Several MINI dealers came in at MSRP and some near. One dealer came in with a "drive away" price well below the MSRP. Yesterday, I placed an order with the low bid MINI dealer - all done by email. Over $2500 difference between dealer prices...

A nice little birthday present for myself.

Pete in the beautiful City of Williamsburg, VA

[Bernard_1962]

Congratulations Pete. . .

[old81]

Nice, put up some pictures when you get the Clubman.

When does it get delivered, I presume it is a dealer on the lot MINI.

[jcoop36]

Pete -
Congrats on your Clubman order and good headwork on working the internet deal - helps when you're fairly near mutliple dealers on either coast.
When we were rolling in to drop buoys or torps in the P-3, we had to be careful with our angle of bank so as not to spill water out of the hot tub back in the tube.
Fly Navy!

[pete v]

Old81,
It is a special order, corrected original message.

Jcoop36:
Know what you mean; got a few hours in P3Cs trans-lanting and -pacing when I was Aide to ComNavAirLant in the early '70s. Nice bird but a mite BIG for my tastes... tho I really appreciated the head after a couple of hours and coffees!
Pete

[BLAUGRANA]

Cool! How did you do it though? Did you just email dealers what you were looking for? I'm curious to know. I got a deal by taking a new one off the lot but I like how you worked it.

[orangecrush]

Originally Posted by BLAUGRANA

Cool! How did you do it though? Did you just email dealers what you were looking for? I'm curious to know. I got a deal by taking a new one off the lot but I like how you worked it.

I was thinking the same thing... I always thought mini's thing was "nothing off msrp". Good thing to know, I'm glad you made out Pete.

Congrats. Make sure you post pics...

Mark

[pete v]

For those who asked, I follow some basic rules when buying automobiles. My Brother-in Law was a car dealer and a close friend is an auto industry consultant – learned a lot about the way the new/used car market works

1. Research the vehicle ahead of time. Auto maker websites, KBB.com and Edmunds.com will provide you with reasonably accurate MSRP, dealer invoice, incentive, and holdback figures.

2. Know exactly what you want when you walk in the showroom for a test drive. I also tell the dealership not to waste their time pitching me as I will not buy a car from them that day.

3. When done with the test drive, I thank them, tell them I will consider the car, and if I do decide to buy it; will put an email RFP (request for proposal) out to several dealers – including them. I do this when the salesman has brought in the sales manager in a last ditch attempt to sell me. I take the sales manager’s business card saying: if I buy; I will only deal directly with him as he makes the final decision for the dealership

4. I place all orders at the end of the month, this is an incentive for a dealer to deal more in hopes of getting an additional, unexpected order on his sales book

5. I do not trade in vehicles, you lose money and it complicates negotiations. You can sell your old car for free on Craigslist,etc.. Use Edmunds.com and KBB.com to figure its worth. I also arrange my own financing if not paying cash

6. I get the email addresses for about ten dealer’s sales mangers both in- and out of – state and create a word boiler plate document such as this:

"Dear xx
]I am sending this email separately to all the whatever state and several out-of-state dealers. I want to place an order for a Cooper S Clubman by the end of the month. I want the lowest price possible and am willing to wait the 6-8 weeks a special order takes. This will be a cash deal, no trade in, no financing. The car will be titled/tagged in whatever state.

I will not share your quote with any other dealer.

I want an "out the door price" quote which includes the cost of the dealership taking care of title, tag, & vehicle tax

MINI Cooper S Clubman
British Racing Green
Silver Roof/Mirrors
Silver Rear C-Pillar Trim

Convenience Package
Premium Package
Center Arm Rest
Leather: Gravity Tuscan Beige
Cream White Color Line
Interior Surface English Oak
Interior Color: Tuscan Beige


Hopefully, this will be the start of a long term relationship with XXXX MINI. I would appreciate an email response within 48 hours. "


7. As I receive responses back from the dealers, I immediately reply, thanking them for responding, and tell them I will inform them of my decision in xx days

8. Once I ‘ve selected the winner, I then further negotiate the price with them or ask for a .pdf sales contract I can sign and return. Once that is done I email the non-winners, tell them I selected someone else and THANK them for their time and interest. (I did have one dealership salesman make a fool of himself when he found out I wasn’t interested in his full MSRP offer…

Took 2 emails and 2 phonecons with winning dealer to close the deal. Sales manager liked it because I was upfront about what I expected, it only cost him about 10 minutes of his time to bag an unexpected sale, and he didn't have to pay a salesman's comission. He also threw in free floor mats and a couple other useless goodies.

Bought my wife's Lexus with 2 emails and three phonecons lasting less tan 10 minutes total.
HTH,
Pete

[sarafil]

Originally Posted by pete v

For those who asked, I follow some basic rules when buying automobiles. My Brother-in Law was a car dealer and a close friend is an auto industry consultant – learned a lot about the way the new/used car market works

1. Research the vehicle ahead of time. Auto maker websites, KBB.com and Edmunds.com will provide you with reasonably accurate MSRP, dealer invoice, incentive, and holdback figures.

2. Know exactly what you want when you walk in the showroom for a test drive. I also tell the dealership not to waste their time pitching me as I will not buy a car from them that day.

3. When done with the test drive, I thank them, tell them I will consider the car, and if I do decide to buy it; will put an email RFP (request for proposal) out to several dealers – including them. I do this when the salesman has brought in the sales manager in a last ditch attempt to sell me. I take the sales manager’s business card saying: if I buy; I will only deal directly with him as he makes the final decision for the dealership

4. I place all orders at the end of the month, this is an incentive for a dealer to deal more in hopes of getting an additional, unexpected order on his sales book

5. I do not trade in vehicles, you lose money and it complicates negotiations. You can sell your old car for free on Craigslist,etc.. Use Edmunds.com and KBB.com to figure its worth. I also arrange my own financing if not paying cash

6. I get the email addresses for about ten dealer’s sales mangers both in- and out of – state and create a word boiler plate document such as this:

"Dear xx
]I am sending this email separately to all the whatever state and several out-of-state dealers. I want to place an order for a Cooper S Clubman by the end of the month. I want the lowest price possible and am willing to wait the 6-8 weeks a special order takes. This will be a cash deal, no trade in, no financing. The car will be titled/tagged in whatever state.

I will not share your quote with any other dealer.

I want an "out the door price" quote which includes the cost of the dealership taking care of title, tag, & vehicle tax

MINI Cooper S Clubman
British Racing Green
Silver Roof/Mirrors
Silver Rear C-Pillar Trim

Convenience Package
Premium Package
Center Arm Rest
Leather: Gravity Tuscan Beige
Cream White Color Line
Interior Surface English Oak
Interior Color: Tuscan Beige


Hopefully, this will be the start of a long term relationship with XXXX MINI. I would appreciate an email response within 48 hours. "


7. As I receive responses back from the dealers, I immediately reply, thanking them for responding, and tell them I will inform them of my decision in xx days

8. Once I ‘ve selected the winner, I then further negotiate the price with them or ask for a .pdf sales contract I can sign and return. Once that is done I email the non-winners, tell them I selected someone else and THANK them for their time and interest. (I did have one dealership salesman make a fool of himself when he found out I wasn’t interested in his full MSRP offer…

Took 2 emails and 2 phonecons with winning dealer to close the deal. Sales manager liked it because I was upfront about what I expected, it only cost him about 10 minutes of his time to bag an unexpected sale, and he didn't have to pay a salesman's comission. He also threw in free floor mats and a couple other useless goodies.

Bought my wife's Lexus with 2 emails and three phonecons lasting less tan 10 minutes total.
HTH,
Pete

Pete, great advice but there are a few points that are not quite right.

1) "ordering" at the end of the month... dealers love to meet their quotas at end of month, but an order does not count until you have physically taken delivery of a car and it is "busting bugs" so to speak... paid for and driven off the lot. There might be a bit more pressure to write deals near end of month, but there is really no incentive for the dealer for you to order on the last week of the month or the first week of the following month... the deal only counts when you take delivery.

1a) if you are looking to buy in stock, the last week of the month IS the time to buy... the dealer knows that they can get you in a car that week if they handle it correctly.

2) even on a deal like this where you work with the manager, there is likely a salesperson getting paid a commission or at least some type of delivery fee. After you order the car, the manager is handing this off to a salesperson to do all the running around with paperwork and ultimately getting the car ready for delivery when it comes in.

[ftttuhzbmcs]

I was in Scottsdale last week working with MA Greg Witt and they didn't want to give me anything for my 2008 MINI Cooper Clubman(see signature for details). They wanted to give me 1k less than bluebook and it is low mileage in excellent condition. I was going to use the 3.9% financing promotion they had going for vehicles sold off of the lot before the end of the month but they wouldn't deal down their lot lizards at all. I'm glad you got the deal but I'm still happy with mine though.

[pete v]

Sarafil,
You are very possibly correct on your first point. However, the dealer is still more motivated to deal.

On the second, the sales manager controls how much whoever he/she assigns it to will get...not a sale, just staff work.

Bottom line, I don't care how they spread their profit and costs, that's why I only look at my total cost to drive off the dealership.
Pete

[sarafil]

Originally Posted by pete v

Sarafil,
You are very possibly correct on your first point. However, the dealer is still more motivated to deal.

On the second, the sales manager controls how much whoever he/she assigns it to will get...not a sale, just staff work.

Bottom line, I don't care how they spread their profit and costs, that's why I only look at my total cost to drive off the dealership.
Pete

I agree that all that matters is "the bottom line" and it shouldn't matter to you how they spread it out.

This type of deal is called a "spoon"... the manager is basically giving the salesperson a deal that is already done (spoon feeding it to them, where the name comes from) and all they have to do is fill out some paperwork and then get the car ready when it comes in. Basically a way for the manager to reward top salespeople with a bit of extra money for very little work.

Just giving my input on some of your points, being a former sales manager and having plenty of experience with deals like yours. (most of the time I was the winner in the bid contest )

[Mike1968NM]

Pete,

Thanks for the detailed write-up! Thanks for SERVING the country as well! I will be retiring at the end of February after 20+ years in the USAF...can't wait to relax just a tad bit .

I have done very similar things when purchasing vehicles such as my wife's 2002 Jeep Liberty and my 2005.5 VW Jetta TDI.

I approached this in slightly different ways for each of those vehicles. For the Jeep I looked into "Fleet Sales" and conducted my business via that route. The dealer we ended up getting the Jeep from was about 3 hours away fortunately for us. PRIOR to that I was able to get the local dealer to show me and give (a "no no" for him) me a printout of all the Liberties within a 500 mile radius or so. Fortunately for us, it had the dates that the vehicles arrived on the dealership lots so that helped in determining if "X" vehicle was "hot" to move.

Another bit of great luck was that the dealership that dealt in fleet sales happened to have the EXACT vehicle my wife and I were looking for. I called their internet manager and stated that I was prepared to pay cash and take it off the lot after a test drive to ensure it was good to go. We made the drive the next day and was instructed to not meet with any of the sales people but to ask for him directly. The Jeep was in it's final sale state, washed, prepped, ready for the test drive. We took her out and did a bit of very mild 4 wheeling off road as I indicated that if we could not do so then the sale was off. Heck a Jeep is designed for that! Needless to say the entire process took 2 hours including the test drive. I normally do NOT purchase extended warranties from the dealers but they offered us the "fleet" price which ended up being considerably less than the online price we found from Warranty Direct (who I have used in the past with great success). I then asked if they would be willing to give us zero percent financing for 5 years and he said no problem . Heck keeping the money for ourselves was great even if it was solely put into an interest bearing money market! The final straw was to then ask for the Military discount they were offering at the time. No problem either! We signed on the line and then the owner came out to meet us. He stated that we were one of only a handful of folks that have ever done this and indicated that if we ever wished to purchase again they would do the same thing for us OR order exactly what we wanted with the same stipulations. We still have the Jeep and it has been great. We are keeping it until I have my knee replacement done on Tuesday the 30th, as I will need an automatic for several months.

For the VW, I did almost the exact same thing you did and with the help of a friend who works for VW in South Carolina, he was able to tell me where/when the shipments were coming into. The funny thing was that there were quite a few dealers that stated MSRP. The only different thing that I did was to indicate via telephone for the ones that were "close" to what the lowest price was....was to give them ONE more shot at the best price. (Funny side note is that the other local dealer in town would simply NOT budge off of MSRP...their loss )

Another bit of good fortune is that the dealer that had the best price was one of two that were located in San Antonio where I was living at the time. I also knew that they would be receiving (through the assistance of my buddy in SC) "MY" perfect car in a week. We were getting rid of my Lincoln Navigator and had already had a Carmax offer and an offer from another car dealer in town. Both had the same price and although we could have made a bit more money off of a private sale, we did not want to go through the hassle.

When the sale was about to be finished, I asked about trading in my Navigator. There was a bit of a hassle but after I showed them the Carmax and the other dealer's written offer, they ended up taking the Nav in trade. The side benefit was that the total price was MUCH lower than what we would have paid directly with no trade, so the tax was much less.

I was very happy with this arrangement and my service guy at that dealership became a good friend. Glad this place was in town.

For those folks that have never done what Pete or I have done, it is worth the extra time (actually a lot less because there is no haggling with the lot sales people) to get a better deal on the vehicle.

We did not go this route with MINI because the local dealer had one that was PERFECT for us on the lot. I am so enamored with the MINI CLUBMAN that I am planning on getting an MCS within a year most likely. I will do the same thing Pete did but will give our local folks the first shot as we really do like their support and relationship thus far!

You will simply LOVE your Clubman Pete! Just watch your speed....LOL.....these cars are addictive as all get up when you hit the sport button and the "skinny pedal"!

[Mike1968NM]

Originally Posted by ftttubrgcm

I was in Scottsdale last week working with MA Greg Witt and they didn't want to give me anything for my 2008 MINI Cooper Clubman(see signature for details). They wanted to give me 1k less than bluebook and it is low mileage in excellent condition. I was going to use the 3.9% financing promotion they had going for vehicles sold off of the lot before the end of the month but they wouldn't deal down their lot lizards at all. I'm glad you got the deal but I'm still happy with mine though.

ftttubrgcm,

AWESOME Flickr album! I noticed that there was a New Mexico "run" that you had pics of. Do you know how often this happens? I am here in ABQ and would love to participate in the next one and the next Mini's in the Mountains run!

[N666BK]

Thank you Pete. I am waiting for 2010 models and thinking of the strategy. Very useful and well-timed for me post.

[pete v]

serafil:
Call it what you will, sorta figured you sold at one point or another , your: "being a former sales manager and having plenty of experience with deals like yours. (most of the time I was the winner in the bid contest) " is typical of new car sales people.

Sorry, but my approach is a bit different, I'm just looking for a "win -win" for myself - and the dealership - I don't want them to go out of business and never meant to imply I was out to screw the dealer, I just want to pay a fair price and give them a reasonable profit. Dealer's choice as to what they want to do.

With the internet, the car business is changing, still there are those who will pay MSRP, hopefully those numbers are decreasing as folks learn. Will/is this changing the new car sales business? I believe so, and for the better, however, the the game continues as the manufacturers and smarter dealers realize they can make their money on downstream lifecycle maintenance as vehicles become more complex.
***************

MIKE1968NM:
Thanks for sharing your experience so others on NAM can benefit, that's all I was trying to do. You were lucky and found the car you wanted on the lot. At my advanced (ahem) age I wanted a very specific configuration and none were available so I special ordered (since I'm so bloody old maybe that wasn't so smart? ) . Buying out a car out of inventory is the way to go. We did that with three previous cars. Every deal is different: you did well with a trade: shows there are no absolutes.

BTW, Check six and THANK YOU for your current service to this great country. I know it has not been easy for active duty folks since 9/11... from someone who saw some fun times over NVN, you have my utmost respect.

Maybe between the two of us the NAM folks can save some $$$
Pete

[Dnevnoy Dozor SF]

Originally Posted by pete v

When I was flying F-4's in the Navy, we would call "in hot" when we rolled in on a target and planned to drop ordnance. Well, I decided to "roll in hot" and took internet bids on a special order '09 Clubman S: BRG/silver, premium, convenience, tuscan leather, and arm rest.

Several MINI dealers came in at MSRP and some near. One dealer came in with a "drive away" price well below the MSRP. Yesterday, I placed an order with the low bid MINI dealer - all done by email. Over $2500 difference between dealer prices...

A nice little birthday present for myself.

Pete in the beautiful City of Williamsburg, VA

OUTSTANDING!!!!!

Happy Birthday and Congrats! Enjoy the new toy!

I made a call, told the sales manager at the dealership I would consider a "Fleet" deal...($500 over invoice..) and after advising them that would close the deal THAT day, I got the car I wanted..all options, etc and a free set of floor mats.... (It helped that I mentioned the JD Powers survey! )

Again, end of month, car was in their inventory, and had checkbook in hand.....

(And the window stickers ALL had +$2K MARKUPS over MSRP....)

(Naval Aviation....if it flies, it dies!!!!!)

Semper Fi

[pete v]

DNEVNOY DOZOR SF:

"2007 Lotus Exige S 265 (1816 lbs..0-100mph in under 9 seconds"

That Lotus needs a cat shot! Bet we could get 0-150+ in 3.5 seconds... one time...

Nice wheels!!! I'm jealoussssssss,
Pete

[jointheclubman]

Originally Posted by Dnevnoy Dozor SF

OUTSTANDING!!!!!

Happy Birthday and Congrats! Enjoy the new toy!

I made a call, told the sales manager at the dealership I would consider a "Fleet" deal...($500 over invoice..) and after advising them that would close the deal THAT day, I got the car I wanted..all options, etc and a free set of floor mats.... (It helped that I mentioned the JD Powers survey! )

Again, end of month, car was in their inventory, and had checkbook in hand.....

(And the window stickers ALL had +$2K MARKUPS over MSRP....)

(Naval Aviation....if it flies, it dies!!!!!)

Semper Fi

Just curious, what dealer were you working with to get that deal? I notice your location is SF, so I'm assuming a Bay Area dealer. Reason I ask is because I'm from the Bay Area as well and can use help getting a good deal on a Clubman

Thanks in advance!

[Dnevnoy Dozor SF]

Originally Posted by jointheclubman

Just curious, what dealer were you working with to get that deal? I notice your location is SF, so I'm assuming a Bay Area dealer. Reason I ask is because I'm from the Bay Area as well and can use help getting a good deal on a Clubman

Thanks in advance!

Hey Zug,

Actually I got my deal in Irvine...sorry...but, if you are looking for a good deal in the Bay Area, I have a friend at SF Mini that will work with you....

Jackie is a doll, and if you like, I can make a call, and hook a brother up....

Let me know...

[Dnevnoy Dozor SF]

Originally Posted by pete v

DNEVNOY DOZOR SF:

"2007 Lotus Exige S 265 (1816 lbs..0-100mph in under 9 seconds"

That Lotus needs a cat shot! Bet we could get 0-150+ in 3.5 seconds... one time...

Nice wheels!!! I'm jealoussssssss,
Pete

Pete, one time would be it too...lol

With a bit of Nitrous I could probably get her in the very low 3's....(Then rebuild her.....a drag racer she is not.....a road racer she is....lol)

I love the speed, but the handling is INSANE, as well as the breaking......I have pulled her at 1.25+G's so far, and that was before the mods, and suspension tweaking! Hopefully will be running Lotus Challenge this year.....look for the white #013 car.....

Will post some pics soon....

In mean time, any time you are in the area, hit me up...will take you out for a spin....Makes the MCS ride and room feel like a Mercedes Benz afterward!

[ftttuhzbmcs]

Mike, I'm a member of New Mexico MINI Motoring out of Albuquerque ( http://www.nmmini.org/index2.html ). We had the Entanted Circle Tour last year in the beautiful Taos, New Mexico area and had a blast. There just happens to be a rift in the club and I don't know if it will mend or has been mended. If not, there are great people still in the club to motor with. One of the MA's at Sandia is also part of the club and is a very active member. He is always trying to get events going, especially having Sandia be involved.

[Dnevnoy Dozor SF]

Originally Posted by pete v

DNEVNOY DOZOR SF:

"2007 Lotus Exige S 265 (1816 lbs..0-100mph in under 9 seconds"

That Lotus needs a cat shot! Bet we could get 0-150+ in 3.5 seconds... one time...

Nice wheels!!! I'm jealoussssssss,
Pete

Just for Pete!

[pete v]

Dvenoy Dozor SF,

AWESOME; 1800# of action!

Here's a pic of me driving my 40 ton "fun" other wheels, a 4-4-0 steam loco... Don't try to cut me off and jam on the brakes...


Pete

[Dnevnoy Dozor SF]

Pete, "Das ist Giele!"

Great train....Now I have envy!

Still think I can out brake ya! LOL

Stan