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  #26  
Old 02-10-2009, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClubmanS View Post
Hey Tsar, you strike me to be a little emotional and defensive about this topic. Just an observation. No need to have your blood pressure raised over meaningless opinions posted on an internet message board.

And you too, Have a good day sir.
I'm not emotional, I just like to break stuff down when I type. It was a little long

Oil analysis is posted somewhere on this board, I gotta go, so I can't search for it now.
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:10 AM
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Ha Ha this topic on oil change frequency has been debated so much guys, I was afraid this would happen.

Anywho I checked out that website Tsar and I will most likely pick up the oil and filter. There is no difference in filters for the 09 CLubman S right? It shows 08+ Clubmans and 09 Coop Conv. but no 09 CLubman S. Please advise. Thanks.
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  #28  
Old 02-10-2009, 11:16 AM
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This is XSMINI's 2002 R53 S with over 180K miles. He has followed the 15K mile OBC intervals since the car was new. Here is a pic of his valve cover. He is not burning oil, no power loss, no problems:

Click the image to open in full size.
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  #29  
Old 02-10-2009, 11:17 AM
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I agree. This topic tends to be heated. Many converging opinions. Do what makes you feel better.
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:12 PM
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Just curious... why did the valve cover have to be removed in the picture?
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  #31  
Old 02-10-2009, 01:43 PM
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Just curious... why did the valve cover have to be removed in the picture?
I believe XSMINI wanted to check the looks of the valves at 160K miles. But you may want to ask him directly. XSMINI is a regular NAM poster
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  #32  
Old 02-10-2009, 02:07 PM
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I would also like to see a copy or link to the study where it is claimed that the MINI synthetic oil is completely broken down by 6K miles.
Here is one of the many threads that cover this subject. Please read the whole thread.

Just remember you really need to understand the oil and what it does and how it breaks down.

I am sure any of the folks mentioned in the thread as being analysis poeple will be more than willing to educate you if you ask the questions.
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  #33  
Old 02-10-2009, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by schatzy62 View Post
Here is one of the many threads that cover this subject. Please read the whole thread.

Just remember you really need to understand the oil and what it does and how it breaks down.

I am sure any of the folks mentioned in the thread as being analysis poeple will be more than willing to educate you if you ask the questions.
Thank you. I appreciate you locating that link for me.

Let me spend some quality time going over the posts.
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Old 02-10-2009, 02:51 PM
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Ha Ha this topic on oil change frequency has been debated so much guys, I was afraid this would happen.

Anywho I checked out that website Tsar and I will most likely pick up the oil and filter. There is no difference in filters for the 09 CLubman S right? It shows 08+ Clubmans and 09 Coop Conv. but no 09 CLubman S. Please advise. Thanks.
It says R55 '08+ Clubman S, that should work for you.
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  #35  
Old 02-10-2009, 09:16 PM
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Has anyone actually changed the oil in their 2008/2009 Clubman S? Is there a DIY for the Clubman out there? I've read that I will have to remove the coolant tank as well as a turbo hose to get to the oil filter. Sounds like a lot more work than a standard oil change...
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  #36  
Old 02-10-2009, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ClubmanS View Post
I have not seen any first hand evidence here or elsewhere, that following the suggested factory intervals will cause sludge or any other long term damage to the engine.

I would also like to see a copy or link to the study where it is claimed that the MINI synthetic oil is completely broken down by 6K miles.

I would love to see links, photos, etc that point to proven evidence of damage if following the on board computer intervals.
I seriously doubt there is any of this evidence. Oil related failures are almost none existent in modern vehicle internal combustion engines. The closest thing I have seen since 2004 is the GTO model car. GM came out with a bulletin that stated you must check your oil. Due to the fact that a very diverse demographic of people purchased this car, (I read that to mean non hot rod, non high hp performace car people) customers were NOT checking the oil between oil changes and there were several engine failures due to low/no engine oil. Of course that is a not a failure of the product but a failure to maintain the product. Those engines when pushed hard will use oil between oil changes. It's normal for a high horsepower engine to do that.

I know there were some other issues with sludge in other cars but I think those were more engineering design issues then oil issues.

With that being said I intend to change the oil at 1300 to 1500 miles on both of our MINI's but then I am going to let the cars on board system tell me when to do it next. (Yes that is the ole hot rodder in me that I just can't tame. Hey baby steps.)

I am not worried about either of our MINI's. They will last a long time and I'm sure I won't have any oil related failures.

Regards,

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Old 02-10-2009, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ClubmanS View Post
I have not seen any first hand evidence here or elsewhere, that following the suggested factory intervals will cause sludge or any other long term damage to the engine.

I would also like to see a copy or link to the study where it is claimed that the MINI synthetic oil is completely broken down by 6K miles.

I would love to see links, photos, etc that point to proven evidence of damage if following the on board computer intervals.
I seriously doubt there is any of this evidence. Oil related failures are almost none existent in modern vehicle internal combustion engines. The closest thing I have seen since 2004 is the GTO model car. GM came out with a bulletin that stated you must check your oil between oil changes. Due to the fact that a very diverse demographic of people purchased this car, (I read that to mean non hot rod, non car people) customers were NOT checking the oil between oil changes and there were several engine failures due to low/no engine oil. They also thought that since the engine used full synthetic they didn't need to check the oil. Of course that is a not a failure of the product but a failure to maintain the product. Those engines when pushed hard will use oil between oil changes. It's normal for a high horsepower engine to do that.

I know there were some other issues with sludge but I think those were more engineering design issues then oil issues.

With that being said I intend to change the oil at 1300 to 1500 miles but then I am going to let the cars on board system tell me when to do it next. (Yes that is the ole hot rodder in me that I just can't tame. Hey baby steps.)

I am not worried about either of our MINI's. They will last a long time and I'm sure I won't have any oil related failures.

Regards,

Pat
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  #38  
Old 02-11-2009, 05:01 AM
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Has anyone actually changed the oil in their 2008/2009 Clubman S? Is there a DIY for the Clubman out there? I've read that I will have to remove the coolant tank as well as a turbo hose to get to the oil filter. Sounds like a lot more work than a standard oil change...
I performed an oil change on my Clubman non-S at 1200 miles. It should be exactly the same for the Clubman S. I followed the DIY for R56(which is basically the same vehicle from front seats forward). There's no need to remove the turbo hose, in fact I could still reach the oil filter without removing the coolant tank. I could see how it would have made things a tad easier but it wasn't hard in the first place.

Oh and the oil was very dark and metal shavings was obviously present. Could I still have just followed the on board computer? Maybe. It sure did make me feel better about putting in clean oil though. :D
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  #39  
Old 02-11-2009, 05:28 AM
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Okay, I think I'm convinced enough that I'll change mine now at 2k miles, and then follow the OBC recommendation. I'll be going to Southfield, MI on Friday and plan to stop in to Detroittuned 20 minutes away for a kit and try not to spend any more money than that :-)
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  #40  
Old 02-11-2009, 05:52 AM
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There's no need to remove the turbo hose
That's because you don't have one. You actually don't need to remove any of the turbo hoses, but you need to at least remove the coolant tank on an S. It's very easy, the coolant tank is held on with one screw.

I did my first oil change just after break in and again at 5k. Next one will be at 10k at which point I will do an oil analysis. It just seems too convenient to me that the oil change interval on BMWs magically went from 7.5k to 15k when they started paying for them.
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Old 02-11-2009, 06:56 AM
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Oil change myths

I just did a search on Oil Change Myths and it was quite informative.
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Old 02-11-2009, 07:12 AM
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8 auto maintenance myths.....

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/auto/20041217b1.asp
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  #43  
Old 02-11-2009, 07:26 AM
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Recreational Oil Changing
The term "recreational oil changer" was coined to define people that change their oil far more than necessary because they actually enjoy doing it. It's easy to understand the psychology behind the recreational oil changing. It's the visceral feel of the tools, the victory when that old oil filter breaks free, the hot dirty oil pouring out, the joy of oiling of the gasket on the new filter, that new copper or fiber gasket on the drain plug, the clean clear oil going in, and the sense of accomplishment when you start the car, the oil light comes on for a moment, then goes out. For $8-10 in oil and parts, it's pretty cheap entertainment, but if people would be content to do it only when it provides some benefit to the vehicle it would be better.

The 3000 Mile Myth

The 3000 mile oil change interval has been pounded into people's heads for decades. It had a scientific basis when engines used non-multi-weight, non-detergent oil. It no longer has any scientific basis, but it is still being promoted by certain entities, most notably the oil change industry in the United States. This myth is also sometimes known as the "Cheap Insurance Myth."
The Dark Oil Myth
Dark oil does not indicate the need for an oil change. The way modern detergent motor oil works is that minute particles of soot are suspended in the oil. These minute particles pose no danger to your engine, but they cause the oil to darken. A non-detergent oil would stay clearer than a detergent oil because all the soot would be left on the internal engine parts and would create sludge. If you never changed your oil, eventually the oil would no longer be able to suspend any more particles in the oil and sludge would form. Fortunately, by following the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval, you are changing your oil long before the oil has become saturated. Remember, a good oil should get dirty as it does it's work cleaning out the engine. The dispersant should stop all the gunk from depositing in the oil pan.

The only real way to determine whether oil is truly in need of changing is to have an oil analysis performed. Since most people don't want to bother with this, it's acceptable to err heavily on the safe side and simply follow the manufacturer's recommended change interval for severe service. There are still a few cars that specify 3K intervals for severe service, but not many. If you look at countries other than the U.S., the oil recommended change interval is much higher than even the normal interval specified by vehicle manufacturers in the U.S.
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  #44  
Old 02-11-2009, 07:30 AM
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16,000 miles surely seems like a long time for an oil change, and it is, and it goes very much against my previously firm belief in the 3,000 mile interval. But I dropped in the Mobil-1 10w-30 and the XHD oil filter as a part of the just-purchased-it cleandown (check for codes, full tune, oil change, check all brakes, replace burnt bulbs, etc.). I kept checking the oil and seeing a crankcase full of mighty clean engine oil which didn't smell or feel any different from the stuff that came right out of the bottle. It grew slightly dark--think "soy sauce" if new oil is "honey"--but no darker. It never got sticky or gritty or began to smell gasoliny or carbonacious. It was down by a pint (half a quart!) at 8,000 miles, so I changed the XHD filter, added a quart and a pint, and had my mother keep driving.

When I drained the oil at 16,000, it looked great and smelled and felt fine. So in short, I didn't do this because I read about it, or because somebody told me I should, or to rationalize the higher cost of Mobil-1. I did it based solely on my own executive decision.

We're closing in on our second 16,000 mile interval, and will probably hit it within the year. When the engine was apart for a head gasket, everything looked great. No abnormal wear anywhere, no weird noises, no oil pressure problems, no smoke, so...what can I say? More notes on the 53020311 Severe Duty oil filter: List is around $7.something per filter. They fit all four of our cars, so I buy them by the case and pay $4.30/filter. It's built with very good materials and workmanship. I have yet to find a sample--and I have cut several open--with sloppy or incomplete gluing, half-assed construction, foreign material inside the filter, etc. The antidrainback and overpressure relief valves are MUCH more robustly designed than any other filter I've ever examined for this application (and there have been many). The filter element inside is *very* large. I like this filter a lot.

Webmaster update: General Motors has started fitting its cars with a computer based monitoring system which determines the need for oil changes based on driving habits, weather, and other conditions. They find that many customers can safely change their oil at 10,000 miles, rather than 3,000 miles. Indeed, some can stretch it out longer.
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Old 02-11-2009, 09:49 AM
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[quote=proximal;2663376]That's because you don't have one. [quote]


I meant according to the R56 DIY posted. :P
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:13 AM
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Just a little add to this topic. My British Friends were in town this weekend, from Britain, and somehow we got to talking about oil changes. They said that very few people in GB get their oil changed after the factory warrenty period. EVER! Something about the philosophy that as long as the car has oil in it, it is fine.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:04 AM
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THAT's interesting... 'very few' ? so which few are changing after the warranty ends and which lot aren't I wonder?

I have a fairly international audience for my web site... let me pose the question to them and I'll get back to y'all.
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Old 02-11-2009, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JDZ View Post
Just a little add to this topic. My British Friends were in town this weekend, from Britain, and somehow we got to talking about oil changes. They said that very few people in GB get their oil changed after the factory warrenty period. EVER! Something about the philosophy that as long as the car has oil in it, it is fine.
Very interesting. I lived in Banbury England for 4 years and it was a ritual for the men of the household to get out and change the oil in their cars every 3-4k miles just as it is here. OF course i lived there from 1984 to 1988 so things may have changed but it seems to me they would not have. The British were just as much car freaks as many of us americans, at least where is lived.
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Old 02-11-2009, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by NeuroticRobot View Post
Has anyone actually changed the oil in their 2008/2009 Clubman S? Is there a DIY for the Clubman out there? I've read that I will have to remove the coolant tank as well as a turbo hose to get to the oil filter. Sounds like a lot more work than a standard oil change...
Look at the NAM Aliance Magazines one of them has the oil change procedure for the 2nd gen Mini's
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Old 02-12-2009, 07:27 AM
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I don't get the NAM Magazine... is there anything unique about the procedure beyond drain, swap filter, replace plug, refill w/recommended oil, test run, double check level?

Thanks :-)
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