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Been thru this on my 03 for some time. And just now. Minicarparts used to have bad ones but changed em (I asked). Swapped my 2nd one with a mini car parts one but got a 1st bank error shortly later but it has gone away. my light wasnt always on but was on often and now its off and a big ol increase in response on the butt dyno. I watched my boost gauge and saw an increase in psi mabye .5 -1.0 was reading around 14ish but pegs 15 now on a 15% pulley after sensor replacement. Thats what I dont get how would it cause my psi to change and performance since its bank 2 replacement?
I am reading a catalog from Atlantic British/MiniCarparts.net. One of the items is the Catalytic converter oxygen sensor. The description claims that the oxygen sensor should be replaced regularly.
Is this true? And if so, what would be considered regularly?
The old saying goes, "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
Unless you work for the gov't, then, "fix it till it's broke".
The reality is that it either works or or it doesn't, so until you get the light/codes just run it 'til it dies, the sensor that is.
__________________ '07 R56 MCS, Pure Silver and Black
Mini says to replace the oxygen sensors every 100K miles.
My experience with the sensors from Atlantic British is that they post codes that cannot be cleared. I finally had to spend $700. and have them replaced with Mini parts so the "Check Engine" light would not come on.
I don't know if others experienced this problem but I changed my sensors around 120,000 when installing a header. I had bought what I thought to be OEM sensors. What arrived was Bosch. The Bosch sensors were constantly throwing CEL's. Installed the actual OEM sensors and all the problems went away. If you do change the sensors, I would recommend staying away from after market and go with OEM. More money but less trouble for me.
Well now that I read all the the postings I can thank everyone for saving me a boat load of scratch. Turns out the O2 sensors on my 2005 MCS are covered for 100,000 miles or 10 years. And the odo is sitting pretty at 91,845.
BTW: The O2 Universal Bosch Sensor listed in first part of this thread from Amazon.com...... IS NOT for Mini Coopers.....once the car info in plugged into it, the data comes up that it will not fit...
Never heard of a BOSCH O2 sensor going at 30-35K miles.....There are no wearable parts. It really sounds more like some folks are getting bad info from a mechanic and thus getting ripped....my 2 cents....
According to BavAuto, the 13878 referenced on Amazon in this thread does indeed fit Mini Coopers.
As for the "no wearable parts" how can you say that? They are electronics that deal with extreme heat every day. Of course they can wear/go bad.
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*Cyndi* 2003 Chili Red/White Top MCS
Pioneer DEH-P710BT with MFSW controls, Magnacor Wires, Brisk Silver Plugs, Optima Red Top 34R Battery, Pioneer TS-G1643R Speakers, Goodyear Eagle F1 All Season Tires (215/45ZR17), K&N Filtercharger, B&M Short Shift Kit, Detroit Tuned Bypass Valve,Koni FSD,Cravenspeed Under Tower Indurators,Powerflex Lower Control Arm Bushings Coming Soon: M7 Strut Tower Bar Motoring since 3/26/2010...
Any chance you have a .pdf of that 02 sensor swap out you wrote about a couple of years ago. Want to do the swap out, but can't find a visual swap out tutorial online.
If so, please email to mjlwriter@comcast.net. These few years later, is it now the consensus that the NTK 02 sensors are the way to go, as MINI, I believe uses them and not Bosch?
Thanks,
Michael
2002 MINI Cooper owner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Obnxs
black tip = running rich...
First off, be very careful about using anti seize on O2 sensors. The zirconia element is very sensitive to stuff in anti-seize and that can foul them.
Mini only parts is a scam as well, they use Bosch sensors, it's just a matter of finding which one.
FWIW, I'll be doing an O2 sensor swap how to in the next MC2 magazine... Not the one about to be mailed now, but the one after it.
Like others have said, they will degrade before they fail, usually....
Just placed the order with no tutorial in hand. Confident I'll be able to "wing" it just by seeing what's under there once jack up the front end. Have the diagram from RealOEM.com to help. Just will keep the things in mind from this site: use the special socket designed for O2 sensors. Will seek out the 22mm variety, not those "universals," which seem shoddy. What I took away: Let the vehicle cool down, so don't burn self. Be careful with the anti-seize, being careful not to get any on sensors (except thread, of course). Etc., etc.
I personally believe that while they degrade, the ECU does accommodate, but there is degradation in vehicle performance nonetheless once the O2 sensors do pass a certain point (i.e, an engineering threshold). At this point, the lights should start flashing, but perhaps don't (after all, they are dummy lights).
In other words, I am not adhering to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mind set. I think it's worth the $200 to enhance the performance of the vehicle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlwriter
Doc:
Any chance you have a .pdf of that 02 sensor swap out you wrote about a couple of years ago. Want to do the swap out, but can't find a visual swap out tutorial online.
If so, please email to mjlwriter@comcast.net. These few years later, is it now the consensus that the NTK 02 sensors are the way to go, as MINI, I believe uses them and not Bosch?
I don't know if others experienced this problem but I changed my sensors around 120,000 when installing a header. I had bought what I thought to be OEM sensors. What arrived was Bosch. The Bosch sensors were constantly throwing CEL's. Installed the actual OEM sensors and all the problems went away. If you do change the sensors, I would recommend staying away from after market and go with OEM. More money but less trouble for me.
You can also get the NGK/NTK 25648 sensors. The OEM sensors are NTK, so these are fully identical to the OEMs, and much cheaper too - around $100 on Amazon.
I too had constant CELs after putting ACDelco and Bosch sensors. Did a little research, called NTK to verify their aftermarket sensor would be identical to the one they make for MINI, got the NTK, and haven't had a CEL since!
__________________ 2003 MC BRG soon-to-be 6-speed formerly CVT - 121000 miles
Any advantage to replacing in the face of no lights/codes whatsoever, but my vehicle has reached 105k mi. (recommend replacement interval is @ 100k)? Two NTKs (OEM but not MINI-branded) are on their way for a little over $200. If do myself, only have to pay for the ~$12.00 22 mm. socket. Otherwise, shop will install for reasonable $69.00. I'm hoping that this "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" concept is faulty and that changing the sensors at the proper maint. interval can lead to better fuel economy, etc. My thinking is that the ECU can only do so much accommodating when the sensors are asleep at the wheel, but not enough so as to trigger a light. Please weigh in.
Also, can anyone supply a link to a tutorial. Have never done this before. Only thing @ hand is the RealOEM schematic, but need more.
Any advantage to replacing in the face of no lights/codes whatsoever, but my vehicle has reached 105k mi. (recommend replacement interval is @ 100k)? Two NTKs (OEM but not MINI-branded) are on their way for a little over $200. If do myself, only have to pay for the ~$12.00 22 mm. socket. Otherwise, shop will install for reasonable $69.00. I'm hoping that this "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" concept is faulty and that changing the sensors at the proper maint. interval can lead to better fuel economy, etc. My thinking is that the ECU can only do so much accommodating when the sensors are asleep at the wheel, but not enough so as to trigger a light. Please weigh in.
Also, can anyone supply a link to a tutorial. Have never done this before. Only thing @ hand is the RealOEM schematic, but need more.
There is an advantage. The engine will consume less fuel and possibly make more power. To see the difference between the old and the new check and record the fuel trims before and after. The fuel trim is a direct indication of the changes commanded by the oxygen sensors. You will need an OBD scan tool capable of reading data stream.
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In the abundance of Water only the fool is thirsty!
My 04 r50's been doing extremely terrible gas mileage(18-19 mpg) since 26,000m.And @30,000 I decided to bring it to a local bmw/mini mechanic and the codes showed both sensors were failed.now I am about to hit 33,000 and the damned light still hasn't come up yet so I can't bring it to a dealership to get them replaced.I guess I'd have to order and replace them myself....I'm so pissed....Why the heck can't this light just come up to make my life a little easier!Lol
My 04 r50's been doing extremely terrible gas mileage(18-19 mpg) since 26,000m.And @30,000 I decided to bring it to a local bmw/mini mechanic and the codes showed both sensors were failed.now I am about to hit 33,000 and the damned light still hasn't come up yet so I can't bring it to a dealership to get them replaced.I guess I'd have to order and replace them myself....I'm so pissed....Why the heck can't this light just come up to make my life a little easier!Lol
Surprising you'd have an issue with such few miles - those sensors are supposed to last over 100k miles! I vaguely remember reading somewhere that with certain year MINIs the o2 sensors are covered under warranty until 100k. If someone has more confidence on that, chime in. Without a code, you might have trouble getting them to cover it under warranty, but they should still be able to test the sensors and see that they are bad without it, especially given your poor gas mileage.
If you get the sensors yourself, make sure you get the NTK ones. Amazon has a good price. The fix is easy - just need the front end on jacks and a 22mm wrench! I see you're in Falls Church - if you're ever coming north of Baltimore - I can help out.
__________________ 2003 MC BRG soon-to-be 6-speed formerly CVT - 121000 miles
CEL light has been coming on and going off intermittently for about 3000 miles now. I have 96790 miles on my 05 MCS right now. A friend read the codes and showed a bad O2Sensor. Went to the MINI dealer and "Yes it's covered." and yes it was.
Batta Bing Batta Boom another happy MINI owner going down the road.
Surprising you'd have an issue with such few miles - those sensors are supposed to last over 100k miles! I vaguely remember reading somewhere that with certain year MINIs the o2 sensors are covered under warranty until 100k. If someone has more confidence on that, chime in. Without a code, you might have trouble getting them to cover it under warranty, but they should still be able to test the sensors and see that they are bad without it, especially given your poor gas mileage.
If you get the sensors yourself, make sure you get the NTK ones. Amazon has a good price. The fix is easy - just need the front end on jacks and a 22mm wrench! I see you're in Falls Church - if you're ever coming north of Baltimore - I can help out.
I called my local dealer to tell them about whats going on with my car.And they told me my car is covered but only if the light is one...otherwise I would have to pay them for pulling out the codes.That pissed me off that I didnt even bother to ask how much would it cost. And I'm still wondering why the heck the light is not on when both sensors are obviously f'ed up...Is there any way to make it appear?LOL...like...take the sensors off then abuse them SOBs and put em back on again?
I called my local dealer to tell them about whats going on with my car.And they told me my car is covered but only if the light is one...otherwise I would have to pay them for pulling out the codes...........
As long as the codes were not cleared it should not matter if the light is on or not. The codes are stored in memory until cleared. When I took my MINI in this morning the light was not on. But they fixed it anyway.
I called my local dealer to tell them about whats going on with my car.And they told me my car is covered but only if the light is one...otherwise I would have to pay them for pulling out the codes.That pissed me off that I didnt even bother to ask how much would it cost. And I'm still wondering why the heck the light is not on when both sensors are obviously f'ed up...Is there any way to make it appear?LOL...like...take the sensors off then abuse them SOBs and put em back on again?
Did the dealer tell you to drive it with the CEL on? I just bought my wife an 06 R53 w/ 53K miles and the CEL just came on. It is not flatting or red, but I have no way of checking code. We are seeing similar issues with poor mileage as well.
Go to Autozone, Advanced Auto, other similiar parts stores. They will usually check the codes for free! I changed out my sensors at 100K just because I was installing new headers. But I first got non OEM sensors (Bosch). Had nothing but severe problems and spent money unnessarily on other sensors trying to correct the problems (CEL codes). Finnaly spent the money for OEM and all the problems went away. I cannot tell you why.
Did the dealer tell you to drive it with the CEL on? I just bought my wife an 06 R53 w/ 53K miles and the CEL just came on. It is not flatting or red, but I have no way of checking code. We are seeing similar issues with poor mileage as well.
Thanks.
Yes,they told me to bring my car in while the lights on.But make sure that th o2 sensors are causing the CEL, otherwise I'm pretty sure that you would have to pay them for pulling the codes.Thats wat happened to me,drove my car in with no light and it took them 2hrs just to pull the codes,but there wasn't any related to the 02 sensors and I had to pay $68...for nothing...
Molly is @ MINI of Portland as we speak for her 4th CEL for an O2 Sensor, they've opened up a PUMA Case and hopefully I'll have her back home later today...not holding my breath though.
She's averaging 28.5mpg according to Fuelly.com which I use exclusively to track her and her Little Brother "SMAUG"'s mileage. She did get a 33.9mpg (08/12)...I was floored...for in City Driving, 10min. to Freeway, 20min. on Freeway (ridiculous stop&go), then 10min. off Freeway (M-F), this week we are home though and have been since Friday, she went to the dealer yesterday @ 7am.
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"Good Golly Miss Molly" MATOC #004
08 MCa OB/W, Leatherette, Anthracite Headliner, Cold Weather Package, Convenience Package, Premium Package, Sport Package, White Bonnet Stripes, White Turn Signals, Chrome Line Interior, Fluid Silver Interior, ClearBra, Front Fogs, Mud Flaps, Alarm. Mods: British Flag Side Scuttles, 1390LMT, Union Jack/Finish Flag Boot Emblem, 35% Tint, JCW Grill, Chrome Line Exterior, 16x7 Enkei T Fork Wheels...
Go to Autozone, Advanced Auto, other similiar parts stores. They will usually check the codes for free! I changed out my sensors at 100K just because I was installing new headers. But I first got non OEM sensors (Bosch). Had nothing but severe problems and spent money unnessarily on other sensors trying to correct the problems (CEL codes). Finnaly spent the money for OEM and all the problems went away. I cannot tell you why.
I had this same experience. OEM (which is NTK) is the only way to go with these sensors.
__________________ 2003 MC BRG soon-to-be 6-speed formerly CVT - 121000 miles
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2003 MC BRG soon-to-be 6-speed formerly CVT - 121000 miles
