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Guys, cut some slack here. It was his son who got the burn, so saying "you should know better" may not apply to a kid.
I agree with that comment. I am sorry he got burnt. My wife did the same thing on our exhaust and she SHOULD know better (and wont read the manual). However, I do not agree that anyone should be surprised.
While I can certainly have sympathy for ANYONE hurt for any reason. Its not a design flaw. Its human error.
Can't count the number of times I got burned as a kid. It's not design flaws, it's a learning experience!
__________________ 2006 MCS-JCW No. 15543, BRG/W, Sport Pack, Chrono Pack, M7 SRP I love deadlines. I love the "whooshing" sound they make when they go by. - Doug Adams ambientpixel@mac.com
Can't count the number of times I got burned as a kid. It's not design flaws, it's a learning experience!
Good point. I got a wood burning stove. I KNOW its hot. Do I still burn myself opening the door? Of course sometimes. DUH. AND I know its hot. Design flaw? Nope. Its made that way.
I don't need a manual to tell me to avoid something something that is hot. However, that was never the point of this thread.
I wish some people could read things thoroughly and maybe empathize a little.
I can certainly sympathize with the parents of a child who was hurt. I can also sympathize with the posters who believe that these "issues" lead to car manufacturers overreacting with things like airbag warnings on sun visors that cannot be removed, traction control devices that cannot be turned off, idiot lights that won't go out and chimes that won't stop chiming.
I think the hot exhaust issue is something for which the aftermarket may have a solution. I noticed that my JCW exhaust doesn't get so hot that I burn myself on the pipes. The tips are just welded onto a smaller exhaust pipe. And didn't Borla market tips that were like radiators to aid in the extraction of gasses? Maybe it's time to shop around for some weld on tips that act as exhaust shrouds...
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"Would you classify that as a launch problem or a design problem?"- Chris Knight
Years ago, my grandpa had a car with a exposed radiator fan. I remmeber vividly seeing that huge, spinning thing when he'd would work on his car in the summertime. Didn't have a warning sticker, and I never read the manual - I was a kid. I have no idea what lengths they went to to WARN people about "not touching the spinning fan, lest your fingers go flying", but, hey, it was "common sense" to not touch one, right? Grandpa was never hurt - guess he was smarter than the average bear.
Funny thing, though... All the cars I've seen lately (as in, the last 20 years or so) now generally encase that fan in plastic, or at the least cover the top with a shroud. Why? Who knows? Maybe because it's safer?
Nah. Can't be. Why "reengineer" a car simply to pander to the mouth-breathers that are either too stupid or too clumsy to avoid something so obvious? Must be so they could add on that extra few bucks to the sticker price. DAMN these idiots with their need for unnecessary crap like seat belts and insulated wiring and a thousand curses on the radiator fan morons for driving my costs up! I say let people occasionally fall into that sucker! It would be a great learning experience, after all! Great idea!
Designers must always remember that "form FOLLOWS function" and I dearly, DEARLY hope that safety is the top of the list for automotive engineers... seeing what comes out sometimes, I wonder. If even one person could be spared getting branded by a simple VOLUNTARY (meaning: you don't have to do it if you don't want to, in case you don't get the meaning of the word) recall, then, hey, why not?
If anyone that's beeen affected by this petitions Mini for a change, let me know and I'll sign it, even though I will (probably never) be affected by this.
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~Matt Cook | Dublin, Ohio | '92 Classic Mini Sprite: "Fiona" + Purple Haze 2005 MCS Cabrio: "Dawn". See old MODs from "Nano" HERE - post #166 - many with How-to links!
Of course safety is at the top of the list for engineers, but I think that sometimes, it is simply a matter of balance. The new Mini is designed with pedestrian impacts in mind, because in a crowded Europe, this is a major concern. Not so much for rural Ohio, and I doubt that the domestic designers are really grapplig with the issue in their next car design.
Some things must be left to common sense, and if a person is too young to have any (or too forgetful to remember that hot=bad), then individual steps must be taken to ensure safety. If the issue is life threatening or commonly considered a hazard, then let the engineers worry about it.
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"Would you classify that as a launch problem or a design problem?"- Chris Knight
To own an S, which is better: a kid not being hurt, or the bitchin' tailpipes on the cool car?
We would rather fault a child we don't know, than an inanimate object we know, and love, so well. If it was a child we did know, especially one we managed to love more than the car, then it might be different. We may not be in favor of the preservation of the current design of the beloved object at that point. At least, that is behavior I have observed in the past. I could be wrong, of course.
When I first saw the thread, I thought, "give me a break." The burn isn't going to kill anyone. And it's true, this only affects a few people. But when do a few people, turn into enough people, to bring about change? When someone you know isn't paying attention, and this happens to them? When it happens to you?
Should MINI recall the car? That would be exceptional, wouldn't it? But I don't think MINI will do that.
This post is not to say either way, what I think MINI should do. I just wanted to make an observation.
Most people know they shouldn't get hit by cars....yet MINI had to redesign the whole front end of the 07's to make sure pedestrians break in the right place if they get hit.
Maybe all the previous new MINI's will be recalled to have the 07 front installed?
You cannot equate a superficial leg burn to getting fingers lopped off by a fan blade.
And if it's all a matter of personal preference -- in that I prefer the car I bought to the temporary discomfort of someone who brushes against my pipes -- then I say we need to COMPLETELY reengineer vehicles. Why? Because I don't so much care for kids and people who should (or will, in any event) know better, but I LOVE cats. And cats crawl up into engine bays to nap then get their little legs broken by fan belts. TO HELL WITH FAN BELTS!!!
I, personally, know of one cat who suffered such a fate (my friend adopted him and paid for his surgeries) and I know that there must be others. Probably more cats are killed or maimed by fan belts than people are burned by tail pipes. Someone, please, halt all automobile production until this issue can be addressed.
Now, I know some of you are going to say; "Tsk, Toastie! How can you compare cats to people???" To you doubting Thomases and Thomasinas I say 2 things:
1. I just genuinely prefer cats, and;
2. You CAN'T equate stupidly unrelated things like, say, serious risk of death or dismemberment and a superficial flesh wound!
I don't recall the black knight suing the maker of king arthur's sword -- and that sorry SOB got all his limbs chopped off!
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"You got a great car... Yeah what's wrong with it today?"
I haven't been burned (yet), but I have been slightly cut across my shins. I was reaching into the boot to extract a wheelchair, and brushed up against the tips...sound up with a slight cut and some blood on my legs. It wasn't a big deal, but I do watch out for those tips when I'm wearing shorts.
What about slamming your finger in the door, or my favorite, which I still do is catch my head between the window and roof when some tool parks too close and I cant open the door all the way and you have to squeeze in?!!!
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Mo' fun than a barrel full of monkeys!
I'm not sure if your pipes extend out a little more than everyone else's. Mine are pretty tucked under and I would have to do some fancy legwork to touch the pipes. However, since this has happened to three different people you know on your one car, you might just want to check. On the other hand, it might be happening with other MINIs, we just don't know. Owners might be afraid that if they post they're going to be called insane, idiotic, or something else.
Maybe you might start at your MINI dealership and ask if anyone else has mentioned a problem similar to yours.
And Chows4us, I was not trying to "point" at you. I'm sorry if it seemed that way. It's just that, from reading a lot of responses, it seemed like a lot of people did not understand that it was three different people hurt by one car.
__________________ Cricket: 2010 Pepperwhite JCW Convertible with 'tude.
The Fact is, you do not realize that the Tail pipe is there until it is to late.
Just a bit of a reminder that cars can be dangerous.
Burns hurt, but they do go away.
Hope all is good and take care
Cheers
Shawn
__________________ MOTOR ON!!! FROM The LAST Frontier MMC #50
What about slamming your finger in the door, or my favorite, which I still do is catch my head between the window and roof when some tool parks too close and I cant open the door all the way and you have to squeeze in?!!!
Climb in through the boot!
__________________ Disclaimer: No claim is made that the quality of the MINI-related advice offered by Yucca Patrol
is greater than the quality of MINI-related advice offered by other NAM members.
Still have to contend with the flaming hot exhaust tip.
Ok. . . climb in through the boot very carefully
__________________ Disclaimer: No claim is made that the quality of the MINI-related advice offered by Yucca Patrol
is greater than the quality of MINI-related advice offered by other NAM members.
I'd contend that the PURPOSE of a stove is to heat things, and that burning oneself on it, accidentally or otherwise is a known hazard when you choose to use one.
Tail pipes' design purpose, however, is not to heat things, and burning oneself on one is not something that a user would expect (usually, anyway). In general, tail pipes are either offset, on the corners, or are better shrouded by the rear bumper (via cut-outs) or are even beneath the curve. At least, every car *I* have ever had did this, whether they were VWs, Mazdas, Hondas or otherwise, and leaning into the trunk and gettig burnt was never a real consideration.
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~Matt Cook | Dublin, Ohio | '92 Classic Mini Sprite: "Fiona" + Purple Haze 2005 MCS Cabrio: "Dawn". See old MODs from "Nano" HERE - post #166 - many with How-to links!
It sounds like a number of people have suffered similar burns like the one the child did in the original post.
Question #1: Was the child using the product (i.e. the Mini) as designed?
It sounds like he was.
Question #2: Does a child have to be burned as part of some larger learning process?
I don’t believe so.
Overall, I like the Mini design, but I also believe that any product with a design that inherently creates a dangerous situation should be modified to correct that situation.
Then put the Mini in the garage, and never touch it.
Risks are a part of life.
I sincerely feel bad that the kid got a burn mark, but if he doesn't know enough about the car (any car) to know where the exhause pipe is, and that it is hot, he should never be allowed near the thing.
__________________ 2006 MCS-JCW No. 15543, BRG/W, Sport Pack, Chrono Pack, M7 SRP I love deadlines. I love the "whooshing" sound they make when they go by. - Doug Adams ambientpixel@mac.com
This is definately a safety issue that should be addressed. I think the govt. should issue a mandatory recall and have all these dangerous MINIs crushed and disposed of before something like this happens again.
Cricket: 2010 Pepperwhite JCW Convertible with 'tude.
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