R50/R53 :: Hatch Talk (2002-2006) Cooper (R50) and Cooper S (R53) hatchback discussion.

R50/53 Sneed4Speed 1.7L Big Bore kit development - follow along

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #1  
Old 09-27-2016, 12:12 PM
SneedSpeed's Avatar
SneedSpeed
SneedSpeed is offline
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pfafftown
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Sneed4Speed 1.7L Big Bore kit development - follow along

Here at Sneed4Speed we are developing a 1.7L big bore kit for R53. We have all heard of the notorious 1.8L big bore kits cracking blocks which is why we started from scratch. We took a R53 test block, bored it to the 1.8 liter size and cut it in half to measure the cylinder walls thickness to see if we could successfully make a bigger bore kit that would not crack the block. Below are our findings. The block is plenty thick everywhere but right at the deck where the walls become to thin at the 80.5mm bore. Thats why the 1.8L kits were cracking the blocks.



 
  #2  
Old 09-27-2016, 01:49 PM
Minibeagle's Avatar
Minibeagle
Minibeagle is offline
6th Gear
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: New Brunswick, CANADA
Posts: 1,113
Received 75 Likes on 68 Posts
Following
 
  #3  
Old 09-27-2016, 05:32 PM
Shawnnn's Avatar
Shawnnn
Shawnnn is offline
5th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 680
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Will follow and hope I get that winning lottery ticket so I can buy one of these 1.7's
 
  #4  
Old 09-27-2016, 06:29 PM
BlwnAway's Avatar
BlwnAway
BlwnAway is offline
6th Gear
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Arnold, MO.
Posts: 2,545
Received 255 Likes on 191 Posts
Stop it, you're giving me a tingling in my nethers...
 
  #5  
Old 09-28-2016, 04:07 PM
The Breed's Avatar
The Breed
The Breed is offline
Neutral
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Excuse my ignorance as I just picked up my R53 less than a week ago but if the issue is wall thickness and there is plenty of block left are you not able to overbore and sleeve the block? Is a sleeving solution not available or are there other issues complicating the matter?
 
  #6  
Old 09-29-2016, 07:15 AM
SneedSpeed's Avatar
SneedSpeed
SneedSpeed is offline
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pfafftown
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by The Breed
Excuse my ignorance as I just picked up my R53 less than a week ago but if the issue is wall thickness and there is plenty of block left are you not able to overbore and sleeve the block? Is a sleeving solution not available or are there other issues complicating the matter?
The cylinders in a R53 block are made too close together, therefore you are not able to overbore and sleeve the block.
 
  #7  
Old 09-29-2016, 10:07 AM
sevin's Avatar
sevin
sevin is offline
6th Gear
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,118
Received 24 Likes on 22 Posts
I saw an R53 with your 1.7L kit on your Instagram feed. Pretty sweet. How much horsepower would you gain from just doing the stroke?
 
  #8  
Old 10-01-2016, 04:46 PM
Fir3Chi3f's Avatar
Fir3Chi3f
Fir3Chi3f is offline
2nd Gear
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St. Xavier University
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Really awesome stuff! Love to see more
 
  #9  
Old 10-02-2016, 08:46 AM
The Breed's Avatar
The Breed
The Breed is offline
Neutral
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SneedSpeed
The cylinders in a R53 block are made too close together, therefore you are not able to overbore and sleeve the block.
I would imagine that true with a dry liner but with the proximity to the water jacketing a wet sleeve should work. I see Darton produces a wet sleeve for the R56, have they been contacted about production for the R53?
 
  #10  
Old 10-03-2016, 07:20 AM
Saltysalt's Avatar
Saltysalt
Saltysalt is offline
6th Gear
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 2,257
Received 15 Likes on 13 Posts
well this will be interesting =D
 
  #11  
Old 10-10-2016, 09:06 AM
SneedSpeed's Avatar
SneedSpeed
SneedSpeed is offline
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pfafftown
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Sorry we forgot to give all of you an update last week. Here are the pistons we are getting made for these kits. The pistons are being custom made for Sneed4Speed by Ross Racing Pistons, they are a forged piston and we are able to get a 8.7 to 1 compression ratio with them.




 
  #12  
Old 10-10-2016, 04:45 PM
qolor's Avatar
qolor
qolor is offline
4th Gear
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 457
Received 10 Likes on 9 Posts
i assume a built engine will be over 4grand.. rip wallet.
 
  #13  
Old 10-24-2016, 08:16 AM
SneedSpeed's Avatar
SneedSpeed
SneedSpeed is offline
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pfafftown
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by qolor
i assume a built engine will be over 4grand.. rip wallet.
Our big bore kits are available for purchase without getting an engine from Sneed4Speed for $1,098.00 the kit includes big bore pistons, rings, wrist pins and matching MLS head gasket. Kit can be used with any stock length connecting rod.
 
  #14  
Old 10-24-2016, 07:13 PM
Racingguy04's Avatar
Racingguy04
Racingguy04 is offline
5th Gear
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 931
Received 118 Likes on 95 Posts
Originally Posted by SneedSpeed
Our big bore kits are available for purchase without getting an engine from Sneed4Speed for $1,098.00 the kit includes big bore pistons, rings, wrist pins and matching MLS head gasket. Kit can be used with any stock length connecting rod.
Forgive my ignorance but this means, that I could buy your big bore kit, pull my motor, and take the motor with the kit to an engine builder/machine shop and they could bore out my motor and reassemble it? this is rather tempting, any idea/estimate on the power gained by increasing the displacement?
 
  #15  
Old 10-25-2016, 01:30 PM
SneedSpeed's Avatar
SneedSpeed
SneedSpeed is offline
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pfafftown
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Racingguy04
Forgive my ignorance but this means, that I could buy your big bore kit, pull my motor, and take the motor with the kit to an engine builder/machine shop and they could bore out my motor and reassemble it? this is rather tempting, any idea/estimate on the power gained by increasing the displacement?
That's correct Racingguy! Our race engine makes around 250hp with just the big bore kit added to the engine we made power in the 270hp range.
 
  #16  
Old 10-25-2016, 01:39 PM
qolor's Avatar
qolor
qolor is offline
4th Gear
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 457
Received 10 Likes on 9 Posts
Originally Posted by SneedSpeed
That's correct Racingguy! Our race engine makes around 250hp with just the big bore kit added to the engine we made power in the 270hp range.

what would be your estimation with a good bvh, mild cam, 17% pulley, header and catback, intake and injectors

280whp? assuming its tuned correctly?
 
  #17  
Old 10-25-2016, 02:04 PM
SneedSpeed's Avatar
SneedSpeed
SneedSpeed is offline
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pfafftown
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by qolor
what would be your estimation with a good bvh, mild cam, 17% pulley, header and catback, intake and injectors

280whp? assuming its tuned correctly?
I would say a good estimate would be around the 225 - 250 range, as you stated tuning does have a lot to do with that. Our race engines do come with ported and polished heads, bigger valves, and heavier valve springs, as well as an upgraded cam.
 
  #18  
Old 10-31-2016, 01:06 PM
SneedSpeed's Avatar
SneedSpeed
SneedSpeed is offline
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pfafftown
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Just wanted to give everyone an update to clarify some questions we have had. Our kit does not require buying a full engine from Sneed4Speed, nor does our kit require any cylinder sleeves. We have cut a test block in half and measured the cylinder walls and have confirmed that it is safe to bore these engines to fit our kits. We also have tested these kits in engines with no problems.
 
  #19  
Old 11-01-2016, 07:36 AM
Thinker2112's Avatar
Thinker2112
Thinker2112 is offline
5th Gear
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 819
Received 86 Likes on 70 Posts
Are the R50 and R53 blocks the same? Would this work on an R50?
 
  #20  
Old 11-01-2016, 09:00 AM
SneedSpeed's Avatar
SneedSpeed
SneedSpeed is offline
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pfafftown
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Yes, our kit will fit both blocks. The R50 and R53 blocks are basically the same. The R50 doesnt have piston oil squirters that is the main difference.
 
  #21  
Old 11-02-2016, 06:05 PM
Dennis Bratland's Avatar
Dennis Bratland
Dennis Bratland is offline
3rd Gear
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Seattle
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
But the normally aspirated R50's compression ratio is 10.6:1. Taking that down to 8.7:1 would, uh, well at least you could run regular gas. I must be missing something.
 
  #22  
Old 11-03-2016, 05:54 AM
SneedSpeed's Avatar
SneedSpeed
SneedSpeed is offline
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pfafftown
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
You ask about the R50 block. The R50 rotating assembly is totally different from the R53. The crank is not forged, the rods are longer and the piston pin height is different. To install our 1.7 pistons with R50 rods would cause the pistons to come out of the top of the block.
 
  #23  
Old 11-10-2016, 08:31 AM
SneedSpeed's Avatar
SneedSpeed
SneedSpeed is offline
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pfafftown
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Engine completed and installed


 
  #24  
Old 11-10-2016, 09:07 AM
Thinker2112's Avatar
Thinker2112
Thinker2112 is offline
5th Gear
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 819
Received 86 Likes on 70 Posts
not to beat the R50 to death to take too much of your time, but I have one... With the lower compression and the larger displacement, knowing that this was not part of your build/thought process, what kind of bhp would you guess this would make in an R50?
 
  #25  
Old 11-10-2016, 09:40 AM
SneedSpeed's Avatar
SneedSpeed
SneedSpeed is offline
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pfafftown
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
If you just slapped a 1.7 big bore kit and R53 crank and rods into a R50 block you would lose power. You could however install the 1.7 pistons with the correct length rod and R50 crank and keep the compression ratio close to where it is stock then power output would be about 8-12% higher than a stock R50 engine. We would have to mock it up here to figure out the rod length needed. It would be longer than the R53 but shorter than R50 rods
 


Quick Reply: R50/53 Sneed4Speed 1.7L Big Bore kit development - follow along



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:43 PM.