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My 05 MCS sits for a good portion of it's days now. It has 128K on the clock, but I do pull it out and zip around town now and again. I has been sitting for about a month. Got in the car, inserted and turned the key and everything lit up as it should but it did not attempt to fire. The relay clicked under the driver's side dash so I know there is power to the relay.
Replaced the Ignition switch, still nothing.
I can hear the fuel pump whirring for a few seconds.
I put it into gear and tried rocking it a bit to see if the starter was going but no dice. I can't try and bump start it because of where it is.
Searched the boards and that's why I replaced the Ig. switch Battery was new about 8 months ago (cost me a fortune!) and is completely charged. I have not noticed any issues with the starter prior to this...I didn't have any problems.
did you measure the battery voltage? The computer will lock out the starter if the voltage drops too low, even if there is power to operate other things. I wouldn't be surprised to have a discharged battery after sitting a month. This would be my first and second guesses...
That said, my last no-start was due to a dead starter. If you have a multimeter, and know how to use it, see if the starter is getting 12V all the time on the big (battery) cable and if it is getting 12v on the solenoid wire (smaller wire) when you turn the key.
Fully charged battery is 12.6V. My educated guess Is that I think it will try to crank if the battery is over 11.8V. Below that, nada. No soup for you.
The battery is fully charged - I had thought of that, too, and placed it on a charger that indicated it was full (after a bit). I didnt go over it with a voltmeter, though
Ok. If you have a way to measure the voltage I would. But let's assume it's not that.
Is it a manual transmission? (Are all MCS?) if it is, there is a clutch safety switch on the clutch pedal - with the key turned (don't try to start it, just to power the instruments), listen for the relay clicking as you operate the clutch pedal up and down.
Other than that, I would troubleshooting the starter.
Our MINI wouldn't start after the battery charger finished charging a dead battery and I checked voltage and it measured 12.3 volts. Also the battery can have voltage, but not be able to handle the load of a starter. You should take it in to a parts store and have it load tested.
Took the battery in and had it tested today. It performs like a champ.. 640 CCA and 12.68 volts, so it is working just fine. Ground straps look great, no corrosion.
BUT it turns out I was wrong about the lights. I had never tried to start it at night, and though the lights don't dim on the inside, the headlights do - bright as day, but when I go to crank the key they turn OFF. (Back on when I release the key) Interior lights/dash does not dim.
Here's the thing, if I keep the key all the way in the start position and release the clutch, the lights come back on...press the clutch back in and they go off again
is this normal? Like, something made to save voltage during starting?
Last edited by AvianMan; 08-31-2015 at 06:57 PM.
Reason: added detail
Ok I'll ask, did you look at th starter at all? Take it out to see if it's in good working order? There is a heavy wire that goes from the motor to solenoid that is exposed it can corrode with age or fail from a overheating starter, might be something to check out.
Ok I'll ask, did you look at th starter at all? Take it out to see if it's in good working order? There is a heavy wire that goes from the motor to solenoid that is exposed it can corrode with age or fail from a overheating starter, might be something to check out.
I didn't take it out yet - it isn't a small job. I know the wire you are talking about and I can't see it without removing the starter. This will probably be my next move...
I didn't take it out yet - it isn't a small job. I know the wire you are talking about and I can't see it without removing the starter. This will probably be my next move...
you should be able to get a decent look at the starter from the top. remove the heat shield from over top the header. its two bolts holding it on into the head. and that should give you a straight shot down at the starter. you can test your voltage at the hot wire to make sure your not dropping it between the battery and the starter
If your car won't start because the engine won't crank or cranks slowly (and the battery is fully charged), you can focus your attention on the starter circuit. A quick way to diagnose cranking problems is to switch on the headlights and watch what happens when you attempt to start the engine. If the headlights go out, a poor battery cable connection may be strangling the flow of amps. All battery cable connections should be checked and cleaned along with the engine-to-chassis ground straps.
Measuring the voltage drop across connections is a good way to find excessive resistance. A voltmeter check of the cable connections should show no more than 0.1 volt drop at any point, and no more than 0.4 volts for the entire starter circuit. A higher voltage drop would indicate excessive resistance and a need for cleaning or tightening.
Slow cranking can also be caused by undersized battery cables. Some cheap replacement cables have small gauge wire encased in thick insulation. The cables look the same size as the originals on the outside, but inside there is not enough wire to handle the amps.
If the headlights continue to shine brightly when you attempt to start the engine and nothing happens (no cranking), voltage is not reaching the starter. The problem here is likely an open or misadjusted park/neutral safety switch, a bad ignition switch, or a faulty starter relay or solenoid. Fuses and fusible links should also be checked because overloads caused by continuous cranking or jump starting may have blown one of these protective devices.
If the starter or solenoid clicks but nothing else happens when you attempt to start the engine, there may not be enough amps to spin the starter. Or the starter may be bad. A poor battery cable, solenoid or ground connection, or high resistance in the solenoid itself may be the problem. A voltage check at the solenoid will reveal if battery voltage is passing through the ignition switch circuit. If the solenoid or relay is receiving battery voltage but is not closing or passing enough amps from the battery to spin the starter motor, the solenoid ground may be bad or the contacts in the solenoid may be worn, pitted or corroded. If the starter cranks when the solenoid is bypassed, a new solenoid is needed, not a starter.
Most engines need a cranking speed of 200 to 300 rpm for your car to start, so if the starter is weak and can't crank the engine fast enough to build compression, the engine won't start. In some instances, a weak starter may crank the engine fast enough but prevent it from starting because it draws all the power from the battery and does not leave enough for the injectors or ignition system.
If the lights dim and there is little or no cranking when you attempt to start the engine, the starter may be locked up, dragging or suffering from high internal resistance, worn brushes, shorts or opens in the windings or armature. A starter current draw test will tell you if the starter is pulling too many amps.
A good starter will normally draw 60 to 150 amps with no load on it, and up to 200 amps or more while cranking the engine. The no load amp draw depends on the rating of the starter while the cranking amp draw depends on the displacement and compression of the engine. Always refer to the OEM specs for the exact amp values. Some "high torque" GM starters, for example, may have a no load draw of up to 250 amps. Toyota starters on four-cylinder engines typically draw 130 to 150 amps, and up to 175 amps on six-cylinder engines.
An unusually high current draw and low free turning speed or cranking speed typically indicates a shorted armature, grounded armature or field coils, or excessive friction within the starter itself (dirty, worn or binding bearings or bushings, a bent armature shaft or contact between the armature and field coils). The magnets in permanent magnet starters can sometimes break or separate from the housing and drag against the armature.
A starter that does not turn at all and draws a high current may have a ground in the terminal or field coils, or a frozen armature. On the other hand, the start may be fine but can't crank the engine because the engine is seized or hydrolocked. So before you condemn the starter, try turning the engine over by hand. Won't budge? Then the engine is probably locked up.
A starter that won't spin at all and draws zero amps has an open field circuit, open armature coils, defective brushes or a defective solenoid. Low free turning speed combined with a low current draw indicates high internal resistance (bad connections, bad brushes, open field coils or armature windings).
If the starter motor spins but fails to engage the flywheel, the cause may be a weak solenoid, defective starter drive or broken teeth on the flywheel. A starter drive that is on the verge of failure may engage briefly but then slip. Pull the starter and inspect the drive. It should turn freely in one direction but not in the other. A bad drive will turn freely in both directions or not at all.
I didn't take it out yet - it isn't a small job. I know the wire you are talking about and I can't see it without removing the starter. This will probably be my next move...
It's actually not that bad of a job if you have some extensions. Shouldn't take that long to pull out and check, I pulled mine a year or so ago took like 30min to get out.
It's actually not that bad of a job if you have some extensions. Shouldn't take that long to pull out and check, I pulled mine a year or so ago took like 30min to get out.
I will remove the heat shield when I get home and have a look at the starter. I'll see if I have a voltmeter that works and measure the voltage. Not sure I have long enough extensions but its an excuse to get a new tool....
Thanks so much for the replies. I will post an update.
To get the starter out , it will be through the passenger side wheel well with a very long extension and a swivel joint. To get to the terminals and the bolts that hold it to the engine. Make sure you disconnected the battery before you touch anything down there and good luck.
I will remove the heat shield when I get home and have a look at the starter. I'll see if I have a voltmeter that works and measure the voltage. Not sure I have long enough extensions but its an excuse to get a new tool....
Thanks so much for the replies. I will post an update.
Hey buddy, what's happening what was the problem i have the sames symptoms. Thanks you in advance for your help me.
Originally Posted by AvianMan
My 05 MCS sits for a good portion of it's days now. It has 128K on the clock, but I do pull it out and zip around town now and again. I has been sitting for about a month. Got in the car, inserted and turned the key and everything lit up as it should but it did not attempt to fire. The relay clicked under the driver's side dash so I know there is power to the relay.
Replaced the Ignition switch, still nothing.
I can hear the fuel pump whirring for a few seconds.
I put it into gear and tried rocking it a bit to see if the starter was going but no dice. I can't try and bump start it because of where it is.
Searched the boards and that's why I replaced the Ig. switch Battery was new about 8 months ago (cost me a fortune!) and is completely charged. I have not noticed any issues with the starter prior to this...I didn't have any problems.
I had the same issues twice so far . First time was the ignition switch ( easy fix $90 ) and second time was the starter ( corroded solenoid wire) .
Changing the starter was a big job and yes you can take it out without removing the exhaust header ( there are a few good videos on YouTube
) . I would add to these that removing the airfilter box and moving the water and steering pump reservoir side way it will give you much more room and makes the job easier .
08-29-2015, 02:51 PM
