Thoughts on these? More particularly the Royal Purple additive available at Wal Mart. I just used some in my lowered/modified XB as it sat most of the winter. It doesn't get driven much and I was taking it on a road trip so I figured some tlc was in order after a fresh oil change.

Considering a bottle for this tank of the Mini. I run 93 octane almost all the time. This isn't an octane booster but more for fuel cleaning and efficiency.

Thanks for the thoughts guys!

 

Limiting the question to just fuel additives - the better cleaners use the same cleaning compounds you find in "top tier" gasoline as recommended by BMW - something referred to as PEA (polyether amine). It seems unnecessary to both buy top tier gas and add fuel cleaners yourself. The big difference though is how much of the cleaner chemical you get. Someone posted this before, and I looked up the MSDS for you again. The MSDS give a range of composition, not an exact formula.

RedLine SI-1 Fuel System Cleaner is listed as 30-50% of polyether amine. The Royal Purple Max Clean product is 5-15% of OLYOLEFIN ALKYL PHENOL ALKYL AMINE (I will consider this a generic name for the same or a related compound). So, you get about 3x more cleaner per bottle using the Redline product. Some people add a little bit each fill up to make a cheaper version of "top tier" gas, and some people use it for an occasional deep clean.

You are not getting "new" power from these products, they are only returning engine performance to its normal operating condition if you had dirty injectors.

Each also contain petrolleum distillates (Naptha). In some parts of the world, you can buy Naptha at the hardware store. It is a cheap solvent; seems helpful to dissolve oil deposits, perhaps that helps clean valves? The Royal Purple product is more than 85% Naptha. The Redline product is 5-20% Naptha.

 

I've been owning cars for a very long time and I've yet to find a reason that most of these various additives are nothing more than snake oil. More gimmicks to get in a guys wallet.

 

I disagree with calling them "snake oil". PEA is a real detergent/cleaner and it really does remove deposits from fuel systems.

BMW and MINI are on the record specifying "top tier" gasoline - this is an industry term to encourage gas stations to include a certain minimum quantity of detergent and also some level of purity. If you follow that recommendation, you are already buying reasonably clean fuel with reasonable levels of detergent. Some are cheaper than others - its not just a way to separate you from some greenbacks - even CostCo gas is included.

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

If you can't buy this fuel, or don't want to pay extra, than adding the same detergent from a bottle will provide the same cleaning, but ends up costing about the same... BUT, then you have to start reading labels and MSDS to educate yourself about which ones are cheap solvents and which ones have more expensive cleaners in them.

 

Maybe not snake oil but certainly voodoo science, guessing game. How exactly do you know when you've added enough or too much of these cleaners? How can you possibly calculate it versus the fuel already in your tank. If you are using quality gas you are probably ok. Only time I use it is when I had to fill the car with crap gas due to location and lack of alternatives.

 

The only additive I've noticed that seems to work is Seafoam, added directly to the vacuum line.

Others are kinda gimmicky in the sense that they really don't do much for the engine except make false claims 75% of the time.... But just my $0.02

 

We recommend and use Royal Purple products!

 

We use alot of BG products. The M.O.A., 44K, CF5 and what not. We've had some good results. It helps the cars not using premium gas.

 

I would encouarge anyone looking at these products to look up the MSDS to see what it is you are getting (and also to understand the safety hazards...). The information is out there !!!

FWIW, Seafoam is 40-60% Napthenic Base oil (middle grade light oil which serves as lubricant, plasticizer, solvent), 25-35% Naptha and 10-20% Isopropyl Alcohol (solvent, also found in "gas drier").

 

I've tried the Seafoam a couple of times on my '05 MCS. Isn't it supposed to smoke out? I did it twice in my 2 years with her and nothing has happened. It did run a tiny bit smoother. Is it really worth it? what does it really do?

 

I do use Lucas Fuel Treatment once a year... as well as STA-BIL during the long winter layups for my convertibles and motorcycles.

I use to add a touch Amsoil with each fill up with my older cars as a lead replacement when the US switched to No Lead fuels.

And I have used SeaFoam with some vehicles I work with as a FSR. The vehicles are Diesel and the Customer was using Bio-Diesel, I used SeaFoam to cut the crud the "Bio" deposited in the fuel system making the vehicles inoperable. A few minutes and I was able to run the tank empty and refilled the vehicles with JP8 and all was well again.

But I have also used a cup of pure Acetone to do the same thing, but that is another story...

Motor on!

 

+1 I love BG and from using a lot of their products on cars at the old shop I worked at, I've really seen them make a difference.

44k for gas, MOA with oil changes, and 109 & RF7 for engine management.

 

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't depends on how gunky everything is.

 

Whats opinon on the differance between 89-91 octain with 10% ethanol or 100% gas @ 87 octain? I think running 100% gas is better-cleaner>

 

I think 87 is too low.

 

understand the meaning of OCTANE

and you will answer your own question . . .

 

If I were to use pure 87 octane gasoline in my Cooper S, I'd run a huge risk of parts malfunction and engine knocking... You have to be very very careful.

I've run into several problems where local gas stations state they've got 93 oct. but actually only have 91-92, which is obviously a lower grade. Ran into several problems and lower compression rates after extended use as well. Almost seemed as though the engine was degrading quicker. I never run the risk of adding anything to my gas for the sake of my engine, but one way or another, with additives it's about the same amount of money you'd spend on higher grade gas anyway. There really isn't a point...

 

Octane is a measured property of the knock resistance of the fuel. Mini says 91 minimum (at least for my S). The engine will try to compensate by detuning the engine to reduce knock, but that is only partially effective. using lower octane fuel than what the engine was designed for is adding wear and reducing performance.

In general, 100% gas is better than 90-10, but only if you maintain the same octane level.

Also look up the website of "top tier" fuel suppliers to see which are in your area. Those are companies that voluntarily follow minimum quality and detergent levels, which also helps.

 

^ I agree with that. Also, to answer the OPs question, I need to tell you a quick story. I worked in parts departments and for parts stores since I was 15. But most recently, about 2 years ago while managing an Oreillys store (go ahead, let the jokes out!) we had a rep come in from Royal Purple. He turned us on to this awesome website that I have since forgotten the URL. But essentially it stated that the power of a cleaner depends on the main cleaning agent in the bottle and how much is in there. Naptha seems to be a common one (Seafoam, STP, etc.). But too much cleaner is also a bad thing and creates an unwanted film in things like intake and exhaust valves.

Here was his rule of thumb, one bottle of cleaning agent of your choice, before filling up, every six months. Whether you swear by induction methods or just pour it in your tank, this site showed a great video on the ACTUAL carbon removal from these cleaners. The tech put a camera into each cylinder pre and post cleaner (with several different brands AND on different cars) to see the actual carbon removal. Gumout's latest and greatest seemed to visually work the best with RP and Seafoam as close seconds.

Really though, there's only so much a cleaner genie in a bottle can do. If you want to throw in your favorite every 6 months just to stay on top of it, go for it. But if you're using 91+ fuels from places like Chevron or Shell, honestly you'll never really need it. I have "Seafoamed" many people's cars and some swear they feel the difference and some say I scammed them for sales. Well, maybe if I made commission!

 

Did you warm your mini up?
Drove mines for 30 mins made motor nice and hot, used a whole can of seafoam waited an hour. Smoked out the whole neighbor lol.

 

Yup. Nice 45 minute drive and stopped at AutoZone and gas station right next door. No smoke! i guess it's a clean machine!

 

I just poured in a can of BG 44k when I filled up on Monday. Do you think one can is enough or would you recommend multiple treatments?

 

One should be plenty. One can every oil change is a good plan. More than that is overkill and a waste of money.

 

Gotcha. Thanks!

 

i