I have an 06 cooper s and just put in an Alta 17% pulley. I also have a CAI and a one ball mod. I'm boosting 16-17 psi on my boost gauge, which my mechanic said is very high for these modifications. He told me not to drive it hard until I get a tune for it. I don't want to spend 1,000 on a tune quite yet, so is there another option I have that would make it run better in the meantime?
Thanks

 

You changed the plugs right? I'd give it time for the ecu to adjust.

 

Haven't changed the plugs. Is that my problem? What should I get?

 

Ugh yes! Get one step colder jcw plugs on there ASAP ! I dont kno where you bought the pulley but all vendors sell them, or just get jcw plugs from somewhere local.

 

Thanks for the help!

 

The colder plugs are going to help prevent detonation but wont fix a lean issue.

When you say you are running lean is the car throwing a code or is that just based on the boost gauge?

 

Based on what my mechanic said. Also there is pinging

 

if you are lean and detonating and can't do a tune maybe you should step it down to a 15% for now. But def. change the plugs.

 

and reset the ecu to clear the adaptations

 

What plugs exactly should I switch to?

 

NGK BKR7EQUP you are getting the plugs that they put in the JCW mini which are one step colder than what goes in a stock S

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ark-plugs.html

 

http://www.waymotorworks.com/john-co...gs-by-ngk.html
These

 

Thank you very much for the help! Just ordered them

 

Not sure what your mechanic means by 16-17 psi is very high for your mods. That is not out of line for a 17% pulley. A 17% pulley might be a little much for a stock tune and stock injectors.

I would recommend a tune over injectors as a next step and always a tune with an injector change. But JCW injectors and a JCW tune would be an option if you could find a dealer that would do it for you.

 

How much would most dealerships charge for that tune?

 

If you got your plugs from Way, just talk with him, he can set you up with everything, including a temporary tune if you want (temporary meaning just until you can get a custom, but honestly his tune will be all you'll need, it will be adjusted for your mods)
But, if your actually getting that much boost, I'd do injectors first, the stock ECU will actually adapt itself "well enough" for the 380 (JCW) injectors to get you by without a tune, it just won't be optimal.
You have to remember how the injectors work, they work on a % basis, "if your lean", that means that 100% flow on the 330cc injector isn't enough fuel, where as a 380cc would be, a tune won't actually fix a lean condition if your running out of fuel in this way, (sure it will help with adjusting other things to match up better, but in essence that's limiting things, to compensate for a condition, so why not get the right parts and take full advantage of what you can) and at high rpm with the 330's and that boost, that probably would be the case.
For the time being though, you'll be OK/Safe under most conditions, as long as you don't redline the car and it's not too hot outside. Just keep your max RPM to 6300 or so.

 

I don't understand how you know your running lean. I thought it has been proven with a 17% the 330cc injectors are at like 86% duty. although high, but not maxed. spark plugs may help the pinging, I don't think your lean tho. with the new plugs and some 93 gas you should be fine. you could upgrade to the 380cc injectors. way less cost than a tune, unless its the JCW tune, in where you need the 380cc injectors anyways. the stock ecu will adjust to the 380cc's without tuning, anything larger than that the ecu wont be able to manage

 

After reading Saltys post, I went back and re-read everything, and he's right, that boost and pinging doesn't really translate to "lean", (I really should stop skimming things) the colder plugs really should be all you'll need, don't forget the ECU will also pull timing if needed, so with the plugs you should be safe, unless it still continues to pings on you, then look farther.

 

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm more assuming that I'm running Lean. The pinging is what got me nervous. I'll see what the plugs do!

 

Dealers don't do tunes...
Many actually take a negative view of it...back in "the day" they would VOID your warranty....
Some HAVE become more understanding that modded cars need different software...some even will install JCW software (adds more fuel, and has a pulley that was ABOUT a 12% reduction
it is highly specialized...there are several places that do "tunes"....
a few places can do it remotely with the right tools (about $350),plus the tune $$...and the dyno time...
so if you want t a tune, one option might be ship the ecu out for a "canned"tune.......about 24 hr turn around plus shipping....

And 'BOOST" is just the resistance to the motor taking the air in with a boosted car...Excessively HIGH boost can point to an issue...even a melted CAT, or other obstruction....
your numbers seem OK for you mods...a 17% pulley is common, no tune.
A 17% pulley CAN run a bit lean WOT, especially near redline, but unless it is a track car, you should be fine with premium fuel....

 

I didn't want this guy to go out and spend that kind of money on a custom tune for a proven part. I would be a bit more hesitant if there were more mods like a header, cam, and cat back. but just a cai and pulley... doesn't seem appropriate. like I said your getting into the upper limits of the 330cc injectors, so don't track it and you will be fine, IATs will be higher than normal, since fuel does cool the intake down. but you should still be around 11-11.5 AFR under WOT @ redline.


pinging is has to be fuel octane or spark plug related. With IATs over 100 deg the ECU should pull timing to reduce this. Either the gap needs to be smaller to avoid pre det or you need colder plugs

 

I basically assumed what you thought was running lean was an issue from the stock plugs. Which is why I said the plugs are the issue, gotta change the plugs for sure whenever doing a pulley. My had to swap my wires out and my bypass valve also. Hopefully the plugs will be enough for you.

 

If not registering a lean code then probably not running lean but your mechanic is wise to bring that possibility up since you have done all sorts of air management mods and nothing for fuel delivery.

I went through similar process of mods, added the 380 JCW injectors ( Doable mod for most without much help ) and then about 6 months later my dealer loaded the JCW Tuning Program. Charged one hour shop time for the programing.

 

I have the same size 17% pulley, and the same pinking (ping), I don't have a CAI, but do have a K&N panel filter, and a Kent cam, plus a GTT intercooler. Most people don't have the problem though.


Nothing got rid of the pinking. I have always used Shell V power, and I have used the colder plugs. An extremely slight difference was apparent with the I/C & plugs, but not right. Plus it lost 'off idle' power pulling away, and that was mainly the plugs. The ones that have been mentioned above have four electrodes, and are generally better, so you may not experience the same as me there. The ones I used are Iridium, and those are Platinum.


Since then, I have added Bosch 550's and BytetroniK, and it still pinks. The car only has 36k now, and has done it since 28k. The exhaust is not blocked and I have used three catback systems, and changed to a header and decat three times while investigating.


Yes I agree to get the adaptions in the ecu reset, as it will allow the car to start to collect fresh information after your mods, but I wouldn't rely on it at all to correct or adapt fully to any mods you do. It does adapt, but suppose it did, it only will after significant mileage, not immediately, and then if you have significant light throttle high speed cruising, it will readapt lean again, so don't trust this as a solution either. Either get some more fuel in, change the plugs if you want, but I suspect you will still have ping.


Really, the plugs will not make the difference alone. I have actually upgraded the original heat plugs to Bosch platinum 4's FGR7DQP+ instead of the colder NGK BKR7EIX, and after the map it has been a lot better. I'm not saying I won't go back, I just don't believe in throwing things in without checking what I have is actually a causal problem. They have been proven to help, but using them to negate the requirement for a map seems to me like a bit of a mask of the problem. Good advice though as they are going to help shed heat from the tip.


16/17 psi is not unusual for a 17% pulley, but is good pressure, and the chances are you 'are' running weak. However, as a specific tune for your car will reveal, the IAT's or detonation will pull the spark advance, and the car will dump fuel in to protect itself a bit, then at lighter high rpm throttle it'll go weak, and an AFR graph will be all over the place.


To improve it easily, but not fix it, put the JCW 380's in. You ultimately might reconsider the map option where you'll possibly get the advance altered to suit within a map. Mine had 7 degrees of advance taken off the timing, and then another after a road test. What's worse, is that was a 'mapped' ecu to begin with, generic, but by a hugely recognised provider.


I don't know if you get a traction warning on that won't turn off unless you key off/on, or an EML if you push harder, but I did both, and between the three faults, the car just couldn't be enjoyed.


The tailored map sorted those problems and 'most' of the pinking, so it is in my opinion, one alteration you could genuinely consider an investment, additionally because under normal driving conditions, your fuel consumption will change, and where my car started at 24-27 mpg it is now 34-39 so far, which even roughly, is a third of my fuel back, on a car with bigger injectors, running much safer, more enjoyable, that I can drive faster etc. That has got there slightly with each mod, the map has changed the cruising consumption almost passively, as they didn't particularly test for the fuelling there.


Anyway, aren't these forums great, so much good info, I read loads before starting doing anything, and just stuck right now with an air intake solution. I want something that pulls air from the scuttle, and also keeps the front intake and retains the bulkhead panel. I don't object to making a hole in it, but won't remove it. This might help reduce the IAT's, which is a pinking contributor. I have fitted a header and decat which has also helped a little with IAT and pinking slightly, plus freeing the last 500 rpm. It's not a keeper, just while experimenting and logging to test a few things. I want a longer primary header that already has a third bung for a wideband sensor, but only Mynes used to do them I think. I want one ready made.


Sorry long reply, but I have a similar issue, and just want to share something. I guess, just try and protect the engine from the outset as best you can, is all I can say. I wish I'd had mine mapped like this way back, especially now I have seen it all 'live' and how wrong it was, and that's with it 'still' not being totally correct! There were no solutions offered, so you have to read what you can, and take the advice of these guys that hopefully have overcome stuff like it already.


Oh, my original injectors were at 86% at 5.5k.

 

You say you're running "lean", yet you have provided no Air:Fuel ratio. Suffice it to say, nobody, including your mechanic, knows if you're actually running lean or not. We're all guessing until you provide an AFR or logged fuel trim data from the primary O2 sensor.

Regarding the JCW plug that people love to recommend (BKR7EQUP), I'm not sure why so much love. There are tons of posts regarding misfires using those plugs, and no wonder why. There's no reason to run a plug that has 4 ground electrodes...it increases spark quenching, consequently causing misfires in many cases. "Spark quenching" is when heat (spark flame) is inhibited by an interfering mass (in this case multiple ground electrodes). The result is incomplete combustion (AKA misfires). They're also not supposed to be gapped, which means you're relying on these plugs being perfectly gapped for your application. Just run a standard electrode V-Power plug, gapped a hair smaller than stock.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...90447912000883

You may find section 4.1 and 4.3 especially interesting. The few and minor faults found in section 4.1 have since been mitigated by NGK, through offering a finer and more durable electrode (V-Power). CliffsNotes: Single ground electrode spark plugs offer a more consistent and hotter spark, and are easily gapable for custom applications.

Also, you can most certainly run 380cc injectors without a tune; tons of people do it, BUT: your car cannot and will not adapt to these larger injectors under both cold-start conditions and wide-open-throttle conditions (both "open loop"). Only in "closed loop" operation (when the car is using the primary O2 sensor for feedback) will the ECU trim the excess fuel from un-tuned and larger injectors.