Hello,

Scarlet, my wife's 2005 MCS, has the 17" wheel package as shown. I recently learned that one of my wheels is slightly bent causing the inside edge of the tire to run slightly out of true, which seems to cause vibration and exaggerated tire wear.

QUESTION 1: Does anybody have one of these rims for sale?

Another direction I'm thinking about going is a set of 16's. When we bought Scarlet a year ago, we weren't looking for the 17's, but the car we found had them. We use the car for pleasure, town driving and trips. Obviously you don't buy this car for it's nice ride, but I'm thinking the 17's must make that worse. Thus, I might like to find a set of 16's for sale.

QUESTION 2: Do the different rims / tires (16's vs 17's) make any appreciable difference in the ride? How about handling?

QUESTION 3: Will factory 16" rims fit OK on the S with the 17 package? As far as I know the brakes are the same on all S's, but would like to confirm.

FINALLY, 4: Does anybody have a set of used factory 16's they want to sell?

Thanks!
Jeremy

 

Hi Jeremy,

I have a set of take offs R98 Webspokes from my 2006 that have done their share of driving in the PNW. If you can't find a replacement locally, let me know and I might be able to sell and ship one to you.

16" wheels IMO are great for the R53 and I personally I prefer the added tire width which improves ride quality. Performance for handling is a bit more subjective and it depends on your preference, more sidewall might make it feel more 'squirmy', but I prefer the extra rubber when tossing the car into corners.

Factory 16" wheels should fit on any standard R53 fine, you might into a few cases where they wont fit for those equipped with the JCW brakes. I run an aftermarket 16" wheel with the JCW brakes and have no clearance problems.

 

16s are better for ride quality, are lighter, and cheaper in terms of both the cost of the wheels themselves and the cost of tires for them. I think 17s generally look nicer if you are at stock height. In my opinion, you need at least a small drop to make a smaller wheel look good. 16s look perfect with a small drop and a lower offset though. 15s can look good too but I find you need to be pretty low and have an aggressive offset to pull it off.

How much they change the braking/handling/acceleration characteristics depends on how much weight you drop. For instance, on a test they did on car & driver, losing 14lbs per corner made the car 0.3 seconds quicker 0-60 and improved mpg by 10%.

Those 17s you posted are about 22lbs each. You could easily find a 16" wheel that weighs 14lbs or so. Add that to the fact you'd drop about 3-5lbs ditching the oem 17" run flats (assuming thats what you have) and going to a non run flat 16" tire and it would certainly be enough of a weight loss to notice an improvement.

 

I had stock 16" x-lites, they were decent weight and comfy. I now have heavier 17" motegis, I prefer the lower profile tire feel myself though.

 

Going from 17" S-Lites (S-Heavies) to 16" SSR Type C wheels was a huge improvement in ride quality, performance, and general feel. It actually felt like how I envisioned a R53 should have felt from the factory.

 

16' rims ARE THE STOCK SIZE, with 195/55r16 tires....
The 17 was an option....so unless somebody installed a BBK (big brake kit) they will fit...
You will likely find the car MORE FUN on 16 rims...the OEM 17 rims are VERY heavy...makes the car almost truck like...lighter rims and tires make a mini more fun IMO!!
Enjoy!!

 

One more tip...
You can use gen2 16" rims...they fit fine, and sometimes are sold pretty cheap as folks buy bigger rims!!

 

Thanks all. It sounds like, handling-wise, it depends on what you like, but ride-wise, the 16's should make an appreciable improvement. I have a little time before I need tires so I'll poke around and see what I find.

TIRE SIZE: On 16" rims, do most people stick with the stock 195/55's? I'm finding a lot more choices and better prices on 205/55's and 205/50's.

Jeremy

 

For a single wheel check marketplace or your local MINI clubs-

For a set of wheels or a single wheel by chance try ECS
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-oem-mini.html
They might have OEM 16" wheel sets.

To make your ride quality better you can change tire size or the tire itself to one that is softer riding, taller sidewall, etc.

An excellent riding street tire in 205/45-17 would be Michelin Pilot Super Sport, alternatively 215/45-17 also works and costs less.

Moving from 17" to 16" wheels gives you several options. 16x7" aftermarket wheels can be very light compared to OEM 17x7 wheels. You can use 205/55-16 as the tire size which gives you a good tire selection and good ride quality both in summer tires and in All Season tires.

Generally if you want more street comfort and longer treadle look for Grand Touring All Season tires while if you want better blend of handling with ride comfort look for Ultra High Performance All Season tires.

For those that don't drive that many miles per year and live in warm areas you can look at Max Summer tires which tend to give a better tire selection for the MINI. Even a base cooper can benefit from a Max Summer tire, but it's not required.

16" or 17" wheels will fit your MINI just fine. Wheels alone don't make that much difference but the tire sizes and the exact tire you choose do affect handling, ride quality, noise, wear, price and performance greatly so choose carefully. Consult with Alex@tirerack.com if you need more info.

 

have you considered repairing the damaged wheel?


There are places that can straighten bent wheels if not TOO severe . . . costs a lot less then new wheels


of course, if you are just looking for an excuse to change, that's a different situation

 

I think everything has already been said, don't forget wheels can be repaired =)


also 16's will help against strut tower mushrooming

 

I really appreciate all the feedback. That a great point about tire model as well as size. I figure that any 16, to achieve similar tire OD, will have a taller sidewall with more give, but the model of tire is also important. The 205/55-16 size does carry many more choices, some of which seem to be more touring oriented. I would like a little more clarification on the following.

Some say the 16" wheels tend to be lighter and thus improve the lightness of the feel of the Mini. Is that simply due to the reduction in weight, or does it also relate to the slightly narrower tire (195 vs 205)? Is the offset different on the stock 17's? How does weight of the wheel make the car feel lighter? (I understand the effect on acceleration, but not on the "feel" of the car.)

Speaking of offset, if you shop for aftermarket wheels, how do you make sure to get the right offset?

I did NOT know that wheels can be straightened! Mine is almost certainly a candidate for this as the runout is minimal. What sort of business do I look up for this?

Strut tower mushrooming: I just learned about this, need to check mine for it. How do the 16's reduce that problem?

Thanks again, Jeremy

 

-smaller wheels mean a taller sidewall and more cushion. More cushion means less force transmitted to the strut towers. So it won't reduce mushrooming, it just won't worsen it as much as a larger wheel would.

-You probably want about a 7" width in the tire size you are looking at. There isn't necessarily a "right" offset, just what fits. In a 7" width though you should have no problems with fit. Most wheels in that width are anywhere from 30-50 offset and anything in that range will be fine unless you decide to slam the car. 50 will be closer to stock in appearance, going towards 30, the wheels will protrude more and provide a more aggressive stance.

-as for how it affects the agility of the car, losing a comparatively small amount of rotational weight is like losing a much bigger amount of weight anywhere else on the car. So if you lost 10-15lbs per corner, it would be almost as if you just kicked a passenger out of your car. The exact multiplier is debated, but most people agree that losing a lb of rotational weight is the same thing as losing anywhere from 2-4lbs anywhere else on the car.

 

Think of a heavy rim causing two differences in feel....both actually basic physics...
A spinning disc acts as a gyroscope...giving more of a STRIGHT LINE stability, making a vehicle more resistant to turning.....Thats why a scooter with tiny tires+rims feels so squirily at speed, but a motorcycle at the same speed feels stable...(sure there is a diameter difference there, but still a good functional example of the felling and why they feel difference)...
If you want a better ride....could go to a 15....will fit fine..can even get similar width...
Offset in this case does not matter....both of the rims discussed are OEM, so FIT the car the same, keeping the weight in the same part of the rim...remember, the offset just located the bolt holes in relation to the rim location...as the rim gets wider, the offset changes to keep rim fitting physically in the same spot...
Yes...sidewall height DOES change a feeling of the ride...
IMO try a "touring" or grand touring" tire if you want a good ride...you will loose grip, but will gain comfort and the tires last longer....the runflats are known for riding HARD, as are some performance tires...interesting thing is some folks think hard ride = good grip, or good handling...pretty much false, a 4wheeled suspensionless wagon(an old radio flyer) has zero grip poor ride.....its all about compromise...oh yes...the load rating must match or exceeded the stock tire, and I suggest you do the same with the speed rating...
My suggestion...if you do not understand the compromises getting made with things like speedometer accuracy, gearing, etc, stick to a stock size...heck some large shops will not install non-stock sizes...

 

Well, I sho ain't kicking out the passenger! Lol. So reduced rotational mass sounds good :-)

 

16' rims generally reduce strut mushrooming because more rubber to absorb the shock...so less of the potholes force is transfered into the car, bending sheetmetal....
The 16' size IMO is the "right" size for most daily driven r53 cars unless you have "moon smooth" roads in your area...potholes and 17' tires and rim damage can get $$... But OK for some...a compromise.
Sure you can get a single rim online... Or get it fixed...
But modding a car and spending $$$ can be more fun....

 

I do understand the implications of diameter on things like speedo calibration, so I'm okay with that. I'm actually looking to keep the overall diameter about the same. It turns out that a 205/55-16 is about a half inch bigger in outside diameter than my stock tires. That's about 2.5%, which is about the amount that my speedometer is off, so it would actually make my speedo dead on accurate!

Here's another question: are stock 16s much lighter than stock 17s, or when you guys talk about lighter rims are you referring to aftermarket?

 

Weight depends on the rims....
I run my stock r84 xlites....lightest stock 16' rims that was very common...the opposite of the 17' s lites, aka s heavies, which are some of the heaviest OEM rims know for that size..
The heavy rims also seem to contribute to early PS pump failures on gen1_cars....that DID get an extended warranty... But a Hassel...
The 205 width OK...that's what I have...in the 50 series...would go stock or 55 next time, but SOME folks reported rubbing...I know my car is not lowered, I bought it new so I should be fine unless the seats are full...but one more uncertainty... Stock 16 rims are 6.5 wide...195, and 205 are both fine.

 

Where can I find pics / names of the different stock rim series'?

Just had the PS pump done this year. ;-)

 

weights:

http://www.mini2.com/forum/faq.php?faq=faq_wheels_tyres

pics:

http://libraryofmotoring.info/facts/wheels/

 

Most people go with 205/50-16 tires. Big outside diameter means slower acceleration.

 

Losing a pound at the tread of the tire is like losing 2 pounds elsewhere in
terms of rotational inertia. Losing a pound on a wheel is closer to losing
about 1.5 pounds elsewhere, figure about a 1.75 factor for lighter sidewalls
of the tire.


most people didn't take physics in school.

 

And higher cruise rpms, larger speedo error, and less "cushion" from the sidewall... And more wheel gap if stock height...lowers your gearing, but you do loose a bit of mpg from cruising 300 rpm higher to get the same speed...so a compromise.
Frankly, once I got my car fulley modded, I wish I had gone the other way...slightly larger diameter, especially in a 2005+ refresh with the better gearing...

 

I'm just going off what I've read. I think it also depends on where the weight is on the wheel. 2 wheels could weigh the same weight, but if one of them has more of its weight centered around the hub it would act as a lighter wheel.

 

Andy, thanks for the resources of wheel pics and weights - those are fantastic! I knew there were a bunch of wheel designs stock on Mini's, but I had no idea how many, it's almost overwhelming

I'm an engineer and I did take physics, so I get what you are saying. I've not tried to do the calculation to add the momentum and the rotational momentum together for a tire/wheel combo to know exactly HOW MUCH the effect is, so I appreciate all the input on that. Frankly, the car is plenty quick for us so that's not really what I'm looking for.

Thinking about 16" vs 17", the bulk of the weight (in the rim portion) is slightly closer to the rotational axis on a 16, so even at the same weight it would have slightly less rotational inertia. But if I go with a slightly larger outside diameter tire it will counteract that.

Also, regarding run-flats: that makes sense that they are heavier. They are also stiffer. When we bought it, it had worn-out run flats. New ones were very expensive and I read that they ride worse. I installed standard Cooper tires (on sale) and the ride was noticeably improved. We carry on trips a tire plug kit and a foot pump, as well as AAA. I'm just about wearing out those tires, learning about inside tire wear and rear camber, found the bent rim, and figuring out what I want to do to make things better for ride and tire mileage.

Jeremy