Hi Guys,


Last winter I changed to Castro 0-30w European formula oil. Winter here is cold in the morning, and car lives outside. (-20 to 0 degrees F).


Now, when first starting the engine, after sitting overnight, for about 2 seconds, the oil light comes on, and there is a rattle. Then once the engine builds pressure, its gone. This has been happening all summer.


Wondering if anyone has experienced this. I'm guessing the 0wt is too thin when cold? and I should go back to 5-30w?


Any thoughts?

 

The Timing chain tensioner is run with oil psi...so the rattle is likely from that as it is building pressure to extend....hopefully the guided have not been trashed...
Frankly have never heard of any issues running a 0w oil....heck ow-30 seems to be the most popular weight run by the euro guys due to a slight mpg gain....
Hopefully thicker oil might help...
But makes we wonder if something else is going on....how many miles on the motor? Any odd history with it?
I would drain the oil asap, and yank the filter....look for plastic chunks....and try again...
What filter are you using?

 

57,000 miles. I'm the second owner, and aside from the startup noise, it runs perfect.
It ran hot one time when the coolant was low due to a thermostat housing leak that was undetected, but only for a few miles.


Used a Mini oil filter last oil change, with Castrol Edge 0-30 European formula.

 

Would the timing chain tensioner cause the oil pressure light to light for 2 seconds upon startup? Somehow I think no.

 

Little update, pulled the oil filter and timing chain tensioner.


Not sure how much spring tension the tensioner should have, but I could compress it in and out between my thumb and index finger with not too much effort.


it has 527404693261AB on it, but googling that yielded no results.


Oil and filter looked good in the oil filter housing.

 

My gut says the tensioner rattling is a symptom... It uses oil psi to extend...but confirms the RED light should be on...
My gut says the anti drain back valve in the base of the oil filter housing is bad...
Fit might be a new o filter housing....but just a guess.hopefully somebody will chime in....
Oil psi should be pretty instant, and a bit high on start-up (I have the chrono kit with a real oil psi guage), and even run a bit high till the oil warms up...based upon using 5w-30

 

I believe the oil pump o-ring dries out over time and can make the pump not hold oil when the car is parked.

I have a fresh motor and the light goes out by the time it hits the highest rpm it gets to upon startup. My old 110k motor waited until the rpm dropped back to idle to then the light off.

 

Thanks fellas,
I'm going to order a timing chain tensioner, install that, and see what happens.


Then do an oil change with either 0-30 or 5-30, depending on if that solves the problem.


I recall now why I went to 0-30, I couldn't find Castrol Edge 5-30 in European formula. I don't think they make it.


I made a video of the startup, but it wont upload, but basically, on a cold start, the oil light stays lit until the revs reach max (2,000 RPM), then as soon as they drop down to 1,500 RPM, the light goes off.


I think I'm going to order a oil pressure gauge and install that as well.

 

I run Mobil one full synthetic it's pretty easy to get. Even Walmart carries it.

 

http://www.promini.com/technical/tec...l_pressure.php

 

Yup...mobil1 is very popular...
Mobil1 euro is approved...but the weight is not what you are looking for....
But the extented life 15,000 mile version in 5w30 should be fine IMO, as would the regular mobil1 5w-30 with a 7500 mile oilchange ....used both many times....the fact Walmart has it on sale, sometimes with rebates is great.....
And I would not worry about extreme cold with syenthic 5w-30....
If I recall, full syenthic mobil1 flows at temps lower that you would ever see up in ak...heck having lived in co, I think it would be fine...

 

I hope that you guys are changing your oil every 5 to 7.5k miles. These oils, even though they say they can do 15k miles, they actually can't. I have opened up 4 engines now and they all have oil that gummed up the piston rings and seized them to the piston completely. Not good for proper compression.

 

you guys are trying to extend the timing chain issue to the GEN1


on my GEN1, when I heard what sounded like valve chatter (on my Mini that means adjust the valves) I'd check the oil and usually find myself 1/2 quart low. Topping off ended the noise.


I do basic maintenance for others and a local 04 just had the same issue .... and 1/2 quart solved it. This was a MAYBE one 'tween oil change event.


***************
I did 12,000 mile changes on my 02-S and when sold at 120,000 miles it burned no oil and got better MPG then when I bought it . . . no leaks .... used Mobil One EURO and OE filters.


you guys should research the issue of extended use oils ..... the MAJOR guy advocating them as BAD is a big wig at Jiffy Lube!

 

Major guy?


Regardless 12k miles still does not equal 15.5k miles like your odometer suggests. I still wouldn't run my car on the same oil for that long. But then again I have more experience with 400-ish horsepower cars and so the oil might take more of a beating. I would start to hear the valves clattering like a diesel at around 6k miles. That's already pushing it as far as oil changes are concerned.


However that does not somehow discount the fact that the 4 engines that I took apart had seized piston rings against the pistons which is really bad.

 

Captbj...
The op reported he has a RED OIL PSI light on startup....the clatter he describes ENDS as the red light goes out....
The gen1 timing chain tensioner EXTENDS with the application of oil psi..so this seems to confirm an ACTUAL DELAY in oil psi on startup....
Timing chain rattle(still not good) appears to be a result of low psi....(as opposed to a failing tensioner)...
The REAL question is WHY the oil PSI is taking time to build.....having a DRY, zero psi startup is pretty bad....to me it indicates the drain back valve in the oil filter housing has failed or maybe another issue with the doing in the unit at the least....
And perhaps excessive wear internally at worst....
As a longtime gen1 owner, my oil Changes and consumption matches yours very closely.... But no need to turn the thread into an oil change debate...

 

I would follow the logic of the link I posted. In my case, I didn't know that the oil filter cap is supposed to have this screen in which the filter sits in. It was missing when I bought the car. As a result I put in the filter upside down and it caused the oil pressure light to always be on when I am idling. That didn't mean I was clogging up the system because the oil was going through normally but the filter was blocking the oil pressure sensor from reading correctly and the light would only go off when I revved the car a little bit.

 

Ok. Small update. Did an oil change yesterday. Verified the filter was installed correctly.

Started today and still got the knocking upon overnight startup.

I also verified the drain back valve is intact. At least it's still there. I can wobble it back and forth and push it in and it seems like it seals, but hard to tell really.

Replaced the timing chain tensioner today. I'll see what sounds happen tomorrow am.

 

OK, another update.


Installed timing chain tensioner, no change.


So today I pulled the filter cover off again, took some pics (drainback valve looks OK to me), and seated the filter first, then the cap. My thinking is that maybe the twisting of the filter is cocking the drainback valve just enough that its not sealed all the way.


Pics attached, not the greatest, its about 35 degrees and snowing, and my hands were getting numb, and I didn't have a good rag to clean out the oil.


I called Mini and talked to a tech, and they thought if its not the drainback valve, it could be a seal for the oil pressure sender, that is integral to the housing. I don't see how that's possible, but then again I don't know. The only seal I can see is the one that goes to the block, and I cant see how that can be leaking unless its leaking from one chamber to another.


I tried to find an oil flow diagram, but came up empty.

I think the next step is to drill a hole in the side of the oil filter cap, tap it, plug it, and let the car sit for a day or two, then take the plug out and see if oil comes out, if not, then obviously the filter housing is empty and I guess i'll order the whole housing.


Running Castrol 0-40. I cant imagine a difference in 5 weight cold would cause this to happen.

 

Well, Replaced the oil filter housing, and unfortunately no change.


After sitting, the engine starts up as if you just did an oil change, with no pressure for about 2 seconds. On a hot start, it has pressure immediately.


Hot oil pressure is at about 18PSI at idle, and pressure tracks RPM to a degree.


Thoughts on where to look next?

 

Could be the oil pick up tube that is clogged up. But if that is the case, it would only be clogged up with bearing shards. The motor isn't knocking, is it?


Have you dropped the oil pan yet to inspect?

 

Haven't dropped the pan, but the engine doesn't knock at idle, or at RPM.
I did an oil change a few weeks ago, and no metal in the oil, nor on the magnetic drain plug, or in the filter....

 

Ok that is good news then. Your next option is to take out the oil pump and inspect that. It could be clogged somewhere or the gear is busted but that is unlikely. It is a bit of a task to do though. Need to take off passenger wheel, wheel well, crank pulley and tensioner. Then you need to loosen all the bolts and just try and get around that water pump pulley to get it out.... but I just noticed that you have an MCS and so it might be a bit more involved than an r50.

 

Any updates on this situation?

It would be interesting to hear if it was ever resolved.

 

Finally getting back on Nam,
So after replacing the Timing chain tensioner, and the oil filter housing (added a oil pressure gauge while I was at it), the problem went unresolved.


I finally took it to Mini, and they kept it for 2 weeks, and couldn't find anything wrong. Tested oil pressure, let it sit for days, tested again, etc. All normal.


Turns out, the noise I was hearing was something in the clutch. When you start it, there's a rattle for a few seconds, but if you start it and leave the clutch in, no rattle. ******* me should have thought of that.


So after about $2k at the dealer (they fixed a minor oil and coolant leak, did a seat sensor recall under warranty, and gave me a brand new 2016 (like 16 miles new), clubman to drive for 2 weeks, I guess I cant complain.

 

After reading all that, and seeing that the clutch was making the noise, what was up with oil light light going on?