Alignment - adjust rear camber

[richs9118]

I was doing some routine checking under my 2006 Cooper S and noticed some pretty serious wear on the inside of my rear tires. I took it to my local tire dealer who put on two new tires and did a "complete" alignment.

He said that the rear tire camber was out of spec on both tires but that it could not be adjusted by anyone but the dealer (drives me crazy when I hear this). He also said it may be caused by worn bushings.

In a nutshell he doesn't know how to diagnose the problem or offer an appropriate solution.

The rear tires were down to the cords on the inner edge. and both measured excessive negative camber. I have these tires regularly rotated so this must be a recent development.

Where do I start (except for the dealer)?

Many thanks!!! These forums have saved me soooooooo much money with all the info!

Richard

[quikmni]

The rear camber is easily adjustable by someone other than the dealer. The rear toe is a little more complicated and takes some trial and error to get it adjusted without special tools. However, my local tire shop fully aligned my 06 MSC to my specs without any special tools.

Actually, the first time they adjusted the camber without adjusing the toe because I new it would be a pain and the toe was in spec (I just wanted something different than spec). When they adjusted the camber the mechanic did not have a 22mm 12-point wrench to hold the nut while adjusting the smaller adjusting bolt so he used channel locks to hold the nut. That bothered me so next alignment I provided the 22mm 12-point wrench for them to use. They also adjusted the toe to my spec at that second alignment but it took them two hours to get the toe to my spec.

[MINICHEF]

The toe is adjusted by moving the mounting plate for the rear trailing arms. There are 3 bolts per side and this is adjusted to correct the toe. For rear camber the best way to get this adjustment is to install adjustable rear control arms (available from TSW, Helix, Alta, H-Sport)

[WayMotorWorks]

What year car do you have? If you have an 05-06 you have a very slight adjustment for the rear camber. It's a simple eccentric at the end of the control arm. But if your car is an 02-04 you don't have any rear camber adjustment and only aftermarket control arms will fix that.
All 02-06 MINIs have rear toe adjustment, and that is a big cause of tire wear. So if you want to adjust the rear camber get a set of adjustable rear control arms. We have had the best luck with the Hsports.

Now on another note, if you have the 05-06 and the alignment shop couldn't figure out the adjustment, take your car to another shop immediately. Those guys don't know.

[quikmni]

If your 06 Mini is not lowered or not lowered more than about 5/8" the alignment shop can use the stock adjustable lower control arms to properly adjust the rear camber, without purchasing aftermarket adjustable control arms.

[richs9118]

My Mini is an '06. I was underneath and I easily saw the adjusting bolts for the lower control arm. According the results from my alignment shop left rear camber is -2.78deg and Right Rear is -3.47deg.

their claim is that the camber can only be set by using a "rhombus guage". I've never heard of this and I googled it until my fingers bled with no meaningful results. I'm going to call more people tomorrow.

The camber seems so far off that I wonder if it can be corrected by the stock adjustment? I also wonder what the underlying cause of this somewhat sudden change (within 5000 miles) in camber. Underneath all looks in order. No bends, dings or loose linkages.

[Crashton]

When I had my 2006 MINI aligned they were able to give me -1.5 degrees in the rear. The tech told me there was only .5 degree of adjustment available.

[quikmni]

Originally Posted by richs9118

My Mini is an '06. I was underneath and I easily saw the adjusting bolts for the lower control arm. According the results from my alignment shop left rear camber is -2.78deg and Right Rear is -3.47deg.

their claim is that the camber can only be set by using a "rhombus guage". I've never heard of this and I googled it until my fingers bled with no meaningful results. I'm going to call more people tomorrow.

The camber seems so far off that I wonder if it can be corrected by the stock adjustment? I also wonder what the underlying cause of this somewhat sudden change (within 5000 miles) in camber. Underneath all looks in order. No bends, dings or loose linkages.

Is your car lowered with aftermarket springs or coil-overs?
If so, how much lower? You might need aftermarket lower control arms.
You should not have that much negative camber at the stock ride height.
If stock, I suspect the shop is not measuring correctly.
Is the shop using a normal four wheel alignment station to do the alignment? If so, it should be able to easily measure rear camber.

[HWWCooper]

I have the same problem with one of rear wheels on a 06 MSC. Yesterday I got my wheel allignment checked which found the rear camber on one of my rear wheels to out by -3.00 degrees.



The reason I got my allignment checked was because one of the rear wheels started rubbing the arch after I fitted a set of R112s alloys a couple of weeks ago. I thought this was a bit strange since the 18" Rota suibzeros, with a wider tyre, had no problems.

[richs9118]

My mini is completely stock. Not lowered at all. Yes, they used a 4 wheel alignment system which looked like all the rest to me.

[BlimeyCabrio]

I don't even know how it's possible to yield that much camber on a stock ride height car - even if your bushings were shot... I have low confidence that they measured it properly.

That said - you can definitely wear out the inner shoulders of your tires when the camber is IN SPEC -



This happens especially fast on runflats, when they're run at relatively low pressures - the reinforced sidewall pushes that edge of the tire into the pavement harder.

My strong suspicion is that your rear camber is OK - and not way out like they said - and that you just experienced very typical rear inner tire wear.

How many miles on the tires? Runflats or not? What PSI are they at RIGHT NOW? Have you ever checked them and found them to be more than a few PSI below 35? I have a buddy here who drove around on 15PSI for MONTHS and didn't know it - the runflats hide it.

[quikmni]

Paul, Great picture of the tire wear. Also for anyone wondering you can also see the rear camber adjustment bolt in the picture.
Good point about tire pressure. My run-flats were spec'd to have 44 psi.
With the two Mini's I have had, I wore-out the run-flats in a little over 15,000 miles.

[dentspeed]

I would say that the toe may be off to get that much wear. A lot of neg. camber will wear, but toe is the enemy. Basically you are dragging the tire instead of rolling.

[quikmni]

+1 on too much toe causing quick wear.
In the case of Paul's picture, it would be too much toe-out to cause the inside wear. However, in Paul's picture I would suspect incorrect air pressure due to the outside edge also being worn.

[CARdiac]

what are the best settings for the rear wheels?

[dentspeed]

Your best bet is 0 toe. Some car manufacturers recommend a slight toe in in the rear to help highway speed stability. I always run 0 to keep wear to a minimum. Plus you decrease rolling resistance and thereby increase gas mileage.

[MerchoMini]

For camber to be adjusted u need rear adjustable control arms. Once i got my rear control arms, sears was able to adjust everything and put it into spec.

[Crashton]

Joel since your MINI is an 05 you have just a bit of camber adjustment available without the need for new control arms. My alignment tech told me there is about 1/2 a degree of adjustment with the stock suspension. For me that was enough to get me where I wanted to be. My MINI is not lowered if yours is you will definitely need adjustable arms.

[AutoXCooper.com]

but only if his 2005 was built in or after Jan of 2005. That's when MINI added the rear camber adjustment.

[MINICHEF]

Originally Posted by CARdiac

what are the best settings for the rear wheels?

-1 to -1.5 degrees camber
0 - .5 degrees toe in

Factory specs are higher, dont have manual handy or I would post.
Most alignment machines today should have the factory specs in the software. A good machine today does all the work except physically doing the adjustments. I have also found that to let the machine comunicate properly with all 4 wheels that the front bumper needs to be removed, otherwise the beams cannot reach each other because we sit so low and have no overhang.

[dentspeed]

screw taking off the bumper. Just go to an old fashioned shop that knows what they're doing. You can get a good alignment without a laser machine.

[BlimeyCabrio]

Originally Posted by MINICHEF

I have also found that to let the machine comunicate properly with all 4 wheels that the front bumper needs to be removed, otherwise the beams cannot reach each other because we sit so low and have no overhang.

The big Hunter machine my shop uses has no problem.

http://www.hunter.com/PUB/product/AL...84-T/index.htm

[Crashton]

I had no issues with the Hunter machine. While a good machine is very important IMHO the tech who knows how to use it is the most important thing.

[BlimeyCabrio]

yep... same kind of rig my guy uses.

While my alignment shop does "regular" alignments - they also do all the track prep work for the local track club. And they know their way around a MINI. So they don't look at you funny when you tell them what you want... and can even make *real* suggestions that are based in fact.

[CARdiac]

Thanks, mine was built after January... I am assuming that I have an adjustable plate since the last shop wanted to use the JCW suspension settings... I have a JCW but not the suspension.