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My friend (also a NAM member) and I are taking a trip to Germany. We have some ideas on places to visit, but we are still looking for some more ideas. Anyone have any suggestions on places to see, in and around Germany, Belgium, Amsterdam, Switzerland, and possibly England? We have to cram lots of sightseeing into 2 weeks! Our best plan so far is to attend the Frankfurt Auto Show! Yay!
Any suggestions will be very much appreciated!
__________________
'06 MCS JCW SB/S w/silver arches & Aero, Compass Rose roof graphic, Bilstein Pss9 coil overs, Alta sway bar, JCW strut bar, Powerflex bushings
'06 JCWGP1274 (no description required, he's my bad boy :)
ober salsberg and salsberg are good areas, also check out some of king ludwigs castles, he had like four or five of them. also if you are on the French coast go to Normandy and visit the Allied Forces cemetery and battlefields,quite moving....
I would head south to Heidelberg, the Nurburgring is nearby. Then the Black Forest region. Schwarzwald Hochstrasse runs thru the middle of the Black Forest . Badische Weinstrasse goes thru the wine country in this area. South to Boden See (Lake Constance) where Germany, Austria and Switzerland meet.
Bavaria has awesome countryside . Great beer everywhere .
You're sure to enjoy wherever you go. A trip to Germany , Austria , Switzerland or Italy is very enjoyable.
I spent a lot of time in Germany on Uncle Sams dollar and of all places in Europe that I remember the most is Switzerland, 2nd Austria. I have seen both Summer and Winter and they both have their differences but both seasons are equally impressive. I spent most of my time in Interlaken Swiss, but I think anywhere will be good. Don't forget the obvious one, AMSTERDAMN (spelling).
I spent a lot of time in Germany on Uncle Sams dollar and of all places in Europe that I remember the most is Switzerland, 2nd Austria. I have seen both Summer and Winter and they both have their differences but both seasons are equally impressive. I spent most of my time in Interlaken Swiss, but I think anywhere will be good. Don't forget the obvious one, AMSTERDAMN (spelling).
I reallllly want to go to Switzerland (my family tree takes us waaayyy back there) and we already have reservations for one night in Amsterdam. Wheee!
__________________
'06 MCS JCW SB/S w/silver arches & Aero, Compass Rose roof graphic, Bilstein Pss9 coil overs, Alta sway bar, JCW strut bar, Powerflex bushings
'06 JCWGP1274 (no description required, he's my bad boy :)
Germany ROCKS... and the drive time is actually pretty short as compared to the US. Trains and public trans are totally un-real on their efficiency ( Borne Movies) The Black Forest and Bavaria are the best of old Germany (IMHO) the Ludwig's castles are the best!! ( does Disney come to mind??) I really dont like any cities.. but the Munich and Berlin can be a good side trip..
Just remember that the Autobahn HAS speed limits ( just a few un restricted limits left) You CAN bust over to France from Frankfurt.. Paris is a good days drive.. ( there is that City thing again!! LOL) In the cities I would suggest the "Bus Tours" you can see it all and decide where you want to get off ( Ie Paris, too much to walk to) .. Bier Rocks, Bread Rocks, Brat Rocks..lol as you can tell I like that place..lol
Have fun..
Thumper ( heading back from the UK and the Italy tour)
Germany ROCKS... and the drive time is actually pretty short as compared to the US. Trains and public trans are totally un-real on their efficiency ( Borne Movies) The Black Forest and Bavaria are the best of old Germany (IMHO) the Ludwig's castles are the best!! ( does Disney come to mind??) I really dont like any cities.. but the Munich and Berlin can be a good side trip..
Just remember that the Autobahn HAS speed limits ( just a few un restricted limits left) You CAN bust over to France from Frankfurt.. Paris is a good days drive.. ( there is that City thing again!! LOL) In the cities I would suggest the "Bus Tours" you can see it all and decide where you want to get off ( Ie Paris, too much to walk to) .. Bier Rocks, Bread Rocks, Brat Rocks..lol as you can tell I like that place..lol
Have fun..
Thumper ( heading back from the UK and the Italy tour)
Thanks! Trains are def on the itinery! My traveling partner wants to go to Paris as well. I have no idea how we are going to do everything, but we will do our best!
__________________
'06 MCS JCW SB/S w/silver arches & Aero, Compass Rose roof graphic, Bilstein Pss9 coil overs, Alta sway bar, JCW strut bar, Powerflex bushings
'06 JCWGP1274 (no description required, he's my bad boy :)
Frankfurt autoshow is awesome...you will need some serious time to see all of the exhibits. Make sure and check out all of the after-market/tuner stuff. Make sure you get down to Munich..so much to see and do there and Bavaria is beautiful. If you can tour BMW musuem (Munich) or the Porsche museum (near Stutgart) do that too. Another great day trip is to drive the Mosel river valley from Koblenz to Trier. Beautiful drive through the vinyards, lots of castles and you will find Roman ruins in Trier to tour. Too much to do and never enough time!
__________________ Wildfamily '11 R60 Countryman - Abolute Black w/Red JCW Stripes aka "VADER" '80 Mini Mayfair - English White aka "Cream Puff" '90 BMW E30 PRO3 Race Car
We lived in Germany for 5 years, returning about 3 years ago now. I also traveled alot through Netherlands...
In Germany, I second the early recommendation to see some of the Ludwig castles. Ludwig was the Michael Jackson of the day. He lived in a fantasy world, and it shows up in his castles. They're mostly in the south of Germany, not TOO far from Frankfurt am Main and Munich (Munchen). Of course there is Neuschwanstien (the Disney Castle), but not too far away is Linderhof - which is just plain ol' weird. Make sure you take the ride in the Grotto - Ludwig was in love with the composer Wagner (it wasn't mutual) - and this is as close to Neverland as one could get in those days.
The Alps - into Switzerland and Austria - are more about great scenery. Try to take a few B roads - the hamlets and open fields on the mountainsides are spectacular. The water flowing in the roadside streams is incredibly clear. If you have time, find a route to take you over the Italian border - just to say you did.
I'd also advise going EAST to Czech Republic if you can. The mountain pass between Dresden and Prague is tons of fun to drive. Switchbacks and hairpins with great mountain views. And Prague? What can I say? To me it was Paris X 3 in beauty. Sure Paris has the Eiffel Tower and the Louvre, but the square in the center of PRague is so much more genuine. And the people are not only nice, but also quite beautiful.
Up north, Berlin is OK for a day stop, but unless it's a special interest to you, it's only worth a day (I lived there for my 5 years). Walk along the brick-line where the wall used to be near Brandenburg Gate, And if you were ever into Techno, wander around TierGarten - the Berlin equivalent of NY's Central Park. This is where all the Love Paraders danced and "other stuff"ed for about 12 summers. Watch out Ethel - you're likely to see some streakers (nude sunbathers). Too late - she looked. And check out the ugliness of the old East German housing as you head East out of town away from the big TV Tower in the old East side. If you are into museums, I highly recommend the CHeckpoint Charlie museum. It's amazing how ingenious people could be - usually love was involved too. ANd for ancient history, the full-size Nebacanezzer palace at the ancient history museum downtown is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.
One last place in Germany that I'd suggest is Rothenberg am der Tauber. This is an "authentic" old fashioned European town - authentic in that it isn't a re-creation, but it's pretty darned touristy for the past 50 years. But it's where the Germans go to see old Germany - kind of like Williamsburg is for US citizens.
Switzerland was more fun to drive through than to spend time at for me - it was just so darned expensive. Although, I did have an amazing day taking the "Heidi" tour - out on the side of a mountain, supposedly where the Heidi books were written of. Really good memories of that day.
Austria - I liked Salzburg better than Vienna - Vienna is too glitzy for the farm-boy in me. I just don't like all the bling. Salzburg had a bit more grit and made me feel more at home.
As far as the Netherlands go, Amsterdam is cool - of course you have to stroll through the redlight district some night - that's where you'll find all the "coffee" shops, as well as the ladies in the windows. No cameras - you'll get the crap kicked out of you if you point one in anyone's direction. Sad but true, 15 years ago a stroll through this area was titillating - now it's depressing, so many people there who were brought into the country not knowing what they were getting into.
But a better feel for AMsterdam comes from walking down toward Leidseplein. This is my favorite area of the city. Still a bit touristy, but amazing food choices and atmosphere. Amsterdam is a walking city - so keep walking south to VondelPark to see where normal people hang out. ANd of course there are tons of museums dedicated to Van Gogh and the other Dutch Masters. Also, try to squeeze in a morning or afternoon trip into the countryside on one of hte bus trips. You'll usually get to see working mills and cheese factories and get a better understanding of how they've reclaimed land from the sea.
Sorry, but Paris does nothing for me. But head south into the Castle belt and the driving is great and the sights better. There are tons of books on the castles and vineyards of France - most have some suggested driving routes too.
I've never been to Spain (3 Dog Night song), but I have been to Portugal - Lisbon in particular. Oh yeah - bring your walking shoes. The churches alone are worth spending a day checking out. And try to work in a dinner so you can have some authentic Atlantic European fare. Just be careful of the salted cod - it's an acquired taste (which I didn't acquire).
Some quick driving notes: Germans follow the rules. Always. Pass on the left, return to the right. Never pass on the right. Ever. IN Germany and German speaking countries, don't put on your turn signal to change lanes until there is actually an opening - you don't signal to ask for a favor. You signal because the law says you have to. Many intersections have no stop signs. The car to your right always has right of way - UNLESS you noticed a sign before you got to the intersection that has a big red arrow pointing up - then you have right of way and don't have to stop. Germans will avoid accidents at all costs - and if they get into an accident they will get their car fixed - even if it is a beater.
The French are like the Italians. Rules? What rules? They wear their scrapes and dents like badges of honor. Never play street poker with the French - they don't bluff. They will hit you if you don't give way. You can't predict what someone will do - pull out in front of you, squeeze into your lane, stop in the middle of the street, run a red light. Drive defensively. And rent a small car - the streets are VERY narrow.
I know I've forgotten a bunch, and already given you too much for just 2 weeks. But I hope some of the ideas help.
__________________ Every day leave someone or something better than you found it.
We lived in Germany for 5 years, returning about 3 years ago now. I also traveled alot through Netherlands...
In Germany, I second the early recommendation to see some of the Ludwig castles. Ludwig was the Michael Jackson of the day. He lived in a fantasy world, and it shows up in his castles. They're mostly in the south of Germany, not TOO far from Frankfurt am Main and Munich (Munchen). Of course there is Neuschwanstien (the Disney Castle), but not too far away is Linderhof - which is just plain ol' weird. Make sure you take the ride in the Grotto - Ludwig was in love with the composer Wagner (it wasn't mutual) - and this is as close to Neverland as one could get in those days.
The Alps - into Switzerland and Austria - are more about great scenery. Try to take a few B roads - the hamlets and open fields on the mountainsides are spectacular. The water flowing in the roadside streams is incredibly clear. If you have time, find a route to take you over the Italian border - just to say you did.
I'd also advise going EAST to Czech Republic if you can. The mountain pass between Dresden and Prague is tons of fun to drive. Switchbacks and hairpins with great mountain views. And Prague? What can I say? To me it was Paris X 3 in beauty. Sure Paris has the Eiffel Tower and the Louvre, but the square in the center of PRague is so much more genuine. And the people are not only nice, but also quite beautiful.
Up north, Berlin is OK for a day stop, but unless it's a special interest to you, it's only worth a day (I lived there for my 5 years). Walk along the brick-line where the wall used to be near Brandenburg Gate, And if you were ever into Techno, wander around TierGarten - the Berlin equivalent of NY's Central Park. This is where all the Love Paraders danced and "other stuff"ed for about 12 summers. Watch out Ethel - you're likely to see some streakers (nude sunbathers). Too late - she looked. And check out the ugliness of the old East German housing as you head East out of town away from the big TV Tower in the old East side. If you are into museums, I highly recommend the CHeckpoint Charlie museum. It's amazing how ingenious people could be - usually love was involved too. ANd for ancient history, the full-size Nebacanezzer palace at the ancient history museum downtown is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.
One last place in Germany that I'd suggest is Rothenberg am der Tauber. This is an "authentic" old fashioned European town - authentic in that it isn't a re-creation, but it's pretty darned touristy for the past 50 years. But it's where the Germans go to see old Germany - kind of like Williamsburg is for US citizens.
Switzerland was more fun to drive through than to spend time at for me - it was just so darned expensive. Although, I did have an amazing day taking the "Heidi" tour - out on the side of a mountain, supposedly where the Heidi books were written of. Really good memories of that day.
Austria - I liked Salzburg better than Vienna - Vienna is too glitzy for the farm-boy in me. I just don't like all the bling. Salzburg had a bit more grit and made me feel more at home.
As far as the Netherlands go, Amsterdam is cool - of course you have to stroll through the redlight district some night - that's where you'll find all the "coffee" shops, as well as the ladies in the windows. No cameras - you'll get the crap kicked out of you if you point one in anyone's direction. Sad but true, 15 years ago a stroll through this area was titillating - now it's depressing, so many people there who were brought into the country not knowing what they were getting into.
But a better feel for AMsterdam comes from walking down toward Leidseplein. This is my favorite area of the city. Still a bit touristy, but amazing food choices and atmosphere. Amsterdam is a walking city - so keep walking south to VondelPark to see where normal people hang out. ANd of course there are tons of museums dedicated to Van Gogh and the other Dutch Masters. Also, try to squeeze in a morning or afternoon trip into the countryside on one of hte bus trips. You'll usually get to see working mills and cheese factories and get a better understanding of how they've reclaimed land from the sea.
Sorry, but Paris does nothing for me. But head south into the Castle belt and the driving is great and the sights better. There are tons of books on the castles and vineyards of France - most have some suggested driving routes too.
I've never been to Spain (3 Dog Night song), but I have been to Portugal - Lisbon in particular. Oh yeah - bring your walking shoes. The churches alone are worth spending a day checking out. And try to work in a dinner so you can have some authentic Atlantic European fare. Just be careful of the salted cod - it's an acquired taste (which I didn't acquire).
Some quick driving notes: Germans follow the rules. Always. Pass on the left, return to the right. Never pass on the right. Ever. IN Germany and German speaking countries, don't put on your turn signal to change lanes until there is actually an opening - you don't signal to ask for a favor. You signal because the law says you have to. Many intersections have no stop signs. The car to your right always has right of way - UNLESS you noticed a sign before you got to the intersection that has a big red arrow pointing up - then you have right of way and don't have to stop. Germans will avoid accidents at all costs - and if they get into an accident they will get their car fixed - even if it is a beater.
The French are like the Italians. Rules? What rules? They wear their scrapes and dents like badges of honor. Never play street poker with the French - they don't bluff. They will hit you if you don't give way. You can't predict what someone will do - pull out in front of you, squeeze into your lane, stop in the middle of the street, run a red light. Drive defensively. And rent a small car - the streets are VERY narrow.
I know I've forgotten a bunch, and already given you too much for just 2 weeks. But I hope some of the ideas help.
Wow, great info. I am very impressed! You should write a travel brochure! Thanks so much!!
__________________
'06 MCS JCW SB/S w/silver arches & Aero, Compass Rose roof graphic, Bilstein Pss9 coil overs, Alta sway bar, JCW strut bar, Powerflex bushings
'06 JCWGP1274 (no description required, he's my bad boy :)
Germany ROCKS... and the drive time is actually pretty short as compared to the US. Trains and public trans are totally un-real on their efficiency ( Borne Movies) The Black Forest and Bavaria are the best of old Germany (IMHO) the Ludwig's castles are the best!! ( does Disney come to mind??) I really dont like any cities.. but the Munich and Berlin can be a good side trip..
Just remember that the Autobahn HAS speed limits ( just a few un restricted limits left) You CAN bust over to France from Frankfurt.. Paris is a good days drive.. ( there is that City thing again!! LOL) In the cities I would suggest the "Bus Tours" you can see it all and decide where you want to get off ( Ie Paris, too much to walk to) .. Bier Rocks, Bread Rocks, Brat Rocks..lol as you can tell I like that place..lol
Have fun..
Thumper ( heading back from the UK and the Italy tour)
Black Forest, Bavaria, and castles it is! Awesome!
__________________
'06 MCS JCW SB/S w/silver arches & Aero, Compass Rose roof graphic, Bilstein Pss9 coil overs, Alta sway bar, JCW strut bar, Powerflex bushings
'06 JCWGP1274 (no description required, he's my bad boy :)
Frankfurt autoshow is awesome...you will need some serious time to see all of the exhibits. Make sure and check out all of the after-market/tuner stuff. Make sure you get down to Munich..so much to see and do there and Bavaria is beautiful. If you can tour BMW musuem (Munich) or the Porsche museum (near Stutgart) do that too. Another great day trip is to drive the Mosel river valley from Koblenz to Trier. Beautiful drive through the vinyards, lots of castles and you will find Roman ruins in Trier to tour. Too much to do and never enough time!
Trier is very close to where we will be spending a lot of time. Yay!
__________________
'06 MCS JCW SB/S w/silver arches & Aero, Compass Rose roof graphic, Bilstein Pss9 coil overs, Alta sway bar, JCW strut bar, Powerflex bushings
'06 JCWGP1274 (no description required, he's my bad boy :)
You might want to consider driving on the World's Greatest Driving Road. Ever. Stelvio Pass, Italy. This pass is on the Swiss/Italian border and is ridiculous. I've made the trip out there twice and was thwarted by snow both times: once in October, the other in May!! Once I get another MINI, I'm >SO< making this pilgrimage!!
You might want to consider driving on the World's Greatest Driving Road. Ever. Stelvio Pass, Italy. This pass is on the Swiss/Italian border and is ridiculous. I've made the trip out there twice and was thwarted by snow both times: once in October, the other in May!! Once I get another MINI, I'm >SO< making this pilgrimage!!
Cheers!!
OMG! That road looks awesome!! I think I will save that one for next year!! I may have to drive it over and over and over and over...
__________________
'06 MCS JCW SB/S w/silver arches & Aero, Compass Rose roof graphic, Bilstein Pss9 coil overs, Alta sway bar, JCW strut bar, Powerflex bushings
'06 JCWGP1274 (no description required, he's my bad boy :)
Thanks! Trains are def on the itinery! My traveling partner wants to go to Paris as well. I have no idea how we are going to do everything, but we will do our best!
You can board the Thalys bullet train from Cologne to Paris. It's a 3,5 hour trip I think. I did it once and for a train buff it's da bomb.
Thanks! Trains are def on the itinery! My traveling partner wants to go to Paris as well. I have no idea how we are going to do everything, but we will do our best!
Any of the high-speed trains are worth the ride. We've been on the Germany's ICE, France's TGV, and Italy's new ETR. As a locomotive engineer here, it was a great experience.
If you are planning on taking many trains, we strongly recommend checking into a Eurail Pass(http://www.eurail.com/). These allow travel for a set number of days over several weeks/month (for example 7 days in a month) and have numerous country combinations. You can ride an unlimited number of trains per day. The catch is that you must purchase it BEFORE you leave the US.
Something else we recommend is purchasing 2nd class passes on trains. Our experience is that the local people most often ride 2nd class so you will have more opportunity to meet a lot of interesting people and maybe find out about some lesser known things to do or see.
Depending on your plans, taking night trains can be helpful. You board the train in the evening and sleep while traveling. The next morning you wake up in a new place. You have taken care of your travel and hotel at the same time. While visiting family we took night trains to Venice and Paris, then took night trains back to my brother's house.
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GROMIT 2005 HO/B MCc Premium, Sport, Cold Weather, CVT, Black/Chrome Stripes, Driving Lights, Ian's Auto Up, Way Motor Works Cooper Intake, MinSpeed Exhaust
All of these comments are very much appreciated. You guys/gals are a wealth of knowledge and have made our planning so much easier. It's nice to find such a great community of traveling experts!
I just wish I could take the Minis with me!
I plan to make this an annual event, so whatever we can't do this trip will be put on future years agendas.
Thanks so much for the great suggestions and please keep them coming!
__________________
'06 MCS JCW SB/S w/silver arches & Aero, Compass Rose roof graphic, Bilstein Pss9 coil overs, Alta sway bar, JCW strut bar, Powerflex bushings
'06 JCWGP1274 (no description required, he's my bad boy :)
ober salsberg and salsberg are good areas, also check out some of king ludwigs castles, he had like four or five of them. also if you are on the French coast go to Normandy and visit the Allied Forces cemetery and battlefields,quite moving....
Docv, I think it's spelled Obersalzburg. Also, FYI, King Ludwig's castles include Neuschwanstein in Howenschwangau and Linderhof. If anyone is surprised at seeing the former, don't be. Walt Disney based Cinderella's castle on the design. Worth a trip but not for the weak-kneed as you have to climb a very steep hill to reach Neuschwanstein. Oh, and do remember to take the autobahn into Switzerland. It's a pilgrimage every car buff must do once their lifetime.
tc-mini, you my friend, have obviously not met the Belgians! They are THE scariest drivers in Europe. I kid you not. They make the Italians look sane. Took a trip to Brussels a few years ago. We were in the middle of downtown, walking along a long row of parked cars. To my shock, almost all of the cars had a dent on the front right side. Why? My dad said the Belgians are so stubborn that they absolutely REFUSE to yield when necessary. They simply do not believe in it! One driver will try to play chicken with the other and, CRUNCH! No wonder so many cars had their right headlight cracked! Gives a whole new meaning to the word stubborn. On the other hand: the chocolate is simply to die for!
SHOW-ME MINIS 
is recommendable...
They are THE scariest drivers in Europe. I kid you not. They make the Italians look sane. Took a trip to Brussels a few years ago. We were in the middle of downtown, walking along a long row of parked cars. To my shock, almost all of the cars had a dent on the front right side. Why? My dad said the Belgians are so stubborn that they absolutely REFUSE to yield when necessary. They simply do not believe in it! One driver will try to play chicken with the other and, CRUNCH! No wonder so many cars had their right headlight cracked! Gives a whole new meaning to the word stubborn. On the other hand: the chocolate is simply to die for!
