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Seeking advice: An epic tale of the "dodgy" Dodge dealer
Background: Bought a 2002 Dodge Caravan, end of December 2001. Mileage is now 37,000 (not high, about average). Good news is it's paid for (and that made my MCS possible!),
The bad news is the 3/36,000 is over. The relevance of this sad fact will be obvious in a minute...
The Caravan has been a pretty great experience, all around... We had a great time buying it, 3 basically problem-free years of operating it, and we had a great relationship with the local dealer. The service technicians and the service manager, well like I said, all-around good vibrations and warm fuzzy feelings... With but ONE exception, read on...
Strike 1: Our pet issue was the haunted airbag light. The first time it came on for no reason was in April 2003. The dealer replaced something called the clockspring and reset the lamp to off, cleared the codes on the computer, and we drove off happily, all under warranty. No mention at this time, of any need, present or future, to replace an expensive component, like say, an airbag...
Strike 2: The airbag light came on again, in late May 2003. After smoothing my wife's ruffled feathers, I politely, humbly returned to the dealership and this time they replaced a broken connector for the passenger side airbag. Again, warranty work... Again, cleared the codes and reset the lamp to off. Yes I am reading this stuff right off the printed service history which I requested yesterday from the dealer. Again, no mention of any need to replace anything costly such as an airbag.
Strike 2.5: Airbag light on again, March of 2004. Warranty still in effect, so back to the dealer we go. At THAT visit, they replaced a wiring harness connected to something called a "tensioner". By now I'm on a first name basis with the manager of service. Codes were cleared, lamp reset to off. No mention of needing to replace any expensive airbag here, either... Now, the conclusion of my fable should be well enough foreshadowed...
Strike 2.75: Warranty goes away at the end of 2004. Airbag light comes on again February 2005. Back to the dealer we go, with the service history "on our side" so to speak. I completely figured, since the service dept had always done right in the past, that they would look at the history and reset me @ no cost DESPITE warranty being over. Well, now that there's no warranty, GUESS what "code" the tech found on the diagnostics? It called for replacing the passenger side airbag, parts and labor exclusive of tax = $1,092.50. AND, they say "the light will just come back on again, it's just a matter of time until another code gets thrown and presto airbag light on". I do not doubt that prediction at all, based on past observation (LOL).
I paid them nearly $50 for the diagnostics (which you basically agree to pay for up front), thanked them politely and humbly and calmly, and left, taking my potentially non-functioning passenger side airbag with me.
How will the saga end, dear readers??? In a perfect world I would have at hand ALL the codes they found during ALL the service visits for the warranty work, so I could SEE if they had prior knowledge DURING THE WARRANTY, that the airbag needed to be replaced. So much for that idea, or is there hope of proving something like that? I don't wish to "live with" this problem. If I were the main driver sure no problem but no compromises on safety for mama's kid-taxi.
I am one of those people who will give you too many 2nd chances, it's just my nature. I STILL would give this dealership the benefit of the doubt on this, but the timing is just TOO suspicious.
Can anyone offer Disappointed Tatt some suggestions of what "next steps" should be? I'm shaking my head here, thinking there MUST be some recourse.
Reading up on Illinois lemon laws, and making sad faces,
Tatt
thanked them politely and humbly and calmly, and left...
I am one of those people who will give you too many 2nd chances, it's just my nature. I STILL would give this dealership the benefit of the doubt on this, but the timing is just TOO suspicious.
I suppose by the letter of the warranty they are right in denying you coverage, however logically this is something that should have been fixed while the car exibited problems under warranty. I think you are in the right expecting them to fix this on their dime.
I also think that being nice about it isn't going to get you what you want.
IMHO you need to go back there now, before you put more miles on the thing and pitch a loud and obnoxious fit in the dealership until it is easier for them to fix your problem than deal with your complaining. Not fun, but probably what it will take to get what you want.
I can tell you for a fact that the Dodge warranty people on the national level are weasels. My Ram catalytic convertor failed and left me stranded. I paid $400 out of my pocked to get back on the road without realizing that emission devices had a longer warranty than the one for the overall vehicle which had expired. If I had had it towed to a Dodge dealer, it would have been paid for. I tried and tried to get them to even SPLIT the cost with me, just out of good will. They actually laughed and quit taking my calls. Last Dodge I'll ever buy.
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2005 MCS, EB/W, 210 WHP; 182 lbs/ft torque
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
I can tell you for a fact that the Dodge warranty people on the national level are weasels. My Ram catalytic convertor failed and left me stranded. I paid $400 out of my pocked to get back on the road without realizing that emission devices had a longer warranty than the one for the overall vehicle which had expired. If I had had it towed to a Dodge dealer, it would have been paid for. I tried and tried to get them to even SPLIT the cost with me, just out of good will. They actually laughed and quit taking my calls. Last Dodge I'll ever buy.
Dayuum, Squirlz that flat out sux. Ironically (20 20 Hindsight Warning), a trusted mechanic from whom I sought wisdom (who is not beholden to any brand or company but his own BP bizness), gave me 2 examples of Chrysler actually reimbursing people who had paid for warranty repairs (even specifically emissions ones) out of their own pocket. He thinks I have a good chance of success if I call "corporate" with my VIN in hand, and make them aware of things. At this dealer's Service Department, the first thing they checked were those "service contracts" ie what was covered outside the 3yrs/36,000 and 7 years power train, warranties. As you might have guessed, a new airbag (how does an airbag "go bad" anyhow) was not included... it only talked about emissions stuff (sigh).
Early Apex I appreciate that you took time to respond. I completely agree that taking my time would only have a negative effect. And, I hear you on "now is not the time to be nice". Mentioning my prior attitude was only my way of saying that I hadn't been rude, loud, (or wrong) on THREE prior visits that supposedly were to address this specific issue. I got satisfaction (which turned out in each case to be temporary) every time, and so I think that there may be still some mileage I can get from the calm reasoned (respectful, positive) approach... Yeah OK you have my permission to call me a SUCKER when I write that check. Not only that, a BROKE sucker.
I will greatly appreciate more feedback, if anyone's got the time and the dime, and thanks again you guys,
Usually, when a repair is made under warranty, that work is guaranteed for 10k-12k miles.
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Cheese
Thank you, Macncheese that's a good point (thoughtful chin-rubbing smiley here)...
In my cynical view though, that may be the reason why EACH time I returned to have the airbag light "reset", they found a DIFFERENT "cause", including this most recent visit (the one that led to starting this thread), where inexplicably the airbag now requires replacement. None of the repairs that they have made in the past have required additional attention, so I never had the opportunity to test this. Or, at least if they did do any re-do's of past work, I was never advised.
I need someone to explain to me how a never-used airbag in a never crashed car, can "go bad". Here's my theory:
They don't mention in the Owner's Manual about how the airbag is actually constructed of perishable materials , with a "Best Used By..." date that usually is a few weeks after your warranty is over.
I think the first step would be talking to the dealerships general manager and service manager. Keep you cool head and positive attitude that you have in the past and clearly explain your situation and let them know worst case it should be covered under good faith since there were issues with the bags recently that WERE covered under warantee. I am sure if you press enough thay will fix it if nothing else to make you go away. If the gm wont do anything definatly contact chrysler main office and explain your situation, be sure to have all the info you can from all the repairs infront of you and make your case.
Good luck, just dont be too eager to pay the bill unless you have exhausted all your options and it becomes easier for you to just pay and fix it for your own piece of mind and safety, not to mention time spent spinning your wheels.
Thanks DetlMan, that's the plan. The dealership gets one more visit - one more opportunity to do the right thing - before we (with no further options) escalate.
A buddy is currently seeking feedback from a Chrysler technician whom he knows personally (holy cr*p, what if it's the same tech! lol).
Some interesting information on federal laws may also be forthcoming, since mine is a "safety thing" and unrelated to abuse or neglect (at least by the OWNER LOL)...
In other words, when the Service Dept told me it's not an item which is under warranty, they may have either had incomplete information (they're mechanics not lawyers right?) or been deliberately less-than-totally-truthful.
I appreciate that the community takes an interest in this thread,
Tatt
Other resources:
Odd that you don't have the codes that were cleared before. I have worked several investigations on Dodges and have always been able to find the specific codes in their paperwork. Be sure to ask for not just invoices, but any other descriptions of what they did. Bear in mind that the dealership you are working with isn't necessarily in total control of this. Assume they are perfectly willing to help you get approval from "corporate" to get paid to do more work on your vehicle. At least that attitude is most likely to garner their support.
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2008 MCSCm Sport, Premium w/ Auto A/C deleted
M7 brace, brake pulsar, just getting started!
(huge pile of MINI mod parts waiting for their time to shine, now in storage)
Oh, when researching recalls, TSB's and complaints, be sure to search any vehicle that shares that failed system. For example, if you search for information on airbags for a 2002 Dodge Caravan, you would miss a complaint of even a recall of the same system on a 2003, or a Grand Caravan. You need to look up when Dodge sold that version of the caravan, and search every year and version in NHTSA's database. Each search for TSBs, Recalls, and complaints has to be run seperately, too. So its a lot of individual searches, but they don't take long to run.
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2008 MCSCm Sport, Premium w/ Auto A/C deleted
M7 brace, brake pulsar, just getting started!
(huge pile of MINI mod parts waiting for their time to shine, now in storage)
This year we had warranty issues (or should I say out of warranty issues) with the battery in our T&C. Didn't like the treatment from the dealer, so we spent our money at Advance Auto Parts. Subsequent to that, the dealership was one of the ones Chrysler shut down over the summer. I said good riddance.
All I'll say is this: having driven Chrysler products almost all my life with my MINI being the first different brand I've owned, I'll never even think about a Chrysler product again. They're so bad in all areas that they deserve to go under. My Jeep Cherokee always had coolant and electrical problems. My Dodge Intrepid was made from such cheap parts that something always broke each year. I find it hard to believe that a door liner thinner than paper could cost $90. Ridiculous. The dealers were sloooooow. Not only did it take a whopping 25-30 minutes per customer to make it to the front of the line at the service desk, there were always at least 3 people in line so that meant at least a one hour wait! I always wound up having to go home and wait a day or two for them to fix the car. The dealers were also cold and aloof to customer concerns. The only thing out of those two cars worth anything was the 7-year warranty on the Jeep and even then, I wouldn't buy their cars if they offered a 20-year warranty. It just isn't worth the frustration. If Chrysler went under, I wouldn't care a bit.
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It's called a MINI so what the heck are we all "overcompensating" for!?
, with a "Best Used By..." date that usually is a few weeks after your warranty is over.
