I am thinking of upgrading my Countryman's under-seat speakers to the SWS-8X, like many others have done. At first, at least, I am going to run them off the stock head unit. I believe the under-seat speakers in the factory setup are 2 ohm, but I cannot seem to find definitive confirmation of this. Am I correct? I'd like to have the impedance matched correctly if I am going to run them off the stock head unit for a while.

Thanks.

 

The stock drivers are 4 ohm, I'm looking at one of my old ones as I type this. At least that is the case from my '13 CMS.

I went with the 2 ohm because the amp I was going to use to power them (JL HD200) outputs 2 X 100w @ 2 ohm (2 X 70w @ 4 ohm), and I need every bit of that to drive them adequately. You may find that your options are very limited in a quality 2CH smallish amp that pushes more than 60-80w @ 4ohm without going north of $500. Maybe there are more options now, haven't looked in a while.

Honestly, though, if you are going to go through the trouble of removing your seats to replace the stock drivers, I'd advise you do an amp under there at the same time. But even as I think about it, I recall the slippery slope here...one thing requires another, and proceeds to another...

If you aren't prepared to go 'All In' with the entire system, I'm not sure what you stand to gain by simply replacing the drivers with the SWS. To this day, I'm still not clear on how the stock system handled the crossover between the front door speakers and the underseats, so dabbling in either area usually results in disappointing or unpredictable results.

Have you got the premium HK system or the stock one?

 

I have the stock one.

My thinking on going ampless at first is twofold. One: money (obviously). Two: I'm having a Best Buy install, and there really isn't a price difference doing it all at once vs. removing the seat again later for an amp, so I'd at least like to hear how it sounds without it. Earthquake specifically touts the SWS as being a drop-in replacement for the stock system that will be an upgrade sans amp, but that may be marketing puffery. And you are right about the slippery slope concerns.

Plus, this is primarily my wife's car. Mine is a 2006 MCS that already has an upgraded stereo.

The Earthquakes are being installed at the same time as a set of Focal IC 100s up front, FWIW.

 

Cool, understand completely.

Good luck, that should change things fairly significantly. The IC100 is a good choice IMO for your 'use case'

Just out of curiosity, what is BB charging for the underseat install? That's a decent amount of labor, and they'll have to crack open the enclosures.

 

So far it's just looking like ~$100 for all 4, but you always get concerned they aren't really quoting vehicle-specific and will "adjust" once they realize what is involved. If they do want to charge more at that point, I will definitely inquire as to whether a I would save some bucks by having an under-seat amp done at the same time.

At first, I was just going to do the IC 100s, but now the dominos seem to be falling a bit.

 

I bought the Earthquakes and installed my self no problems at all!! However I do not have any amp hooked up just running the HK setup... I cannot tell any bit of a difference in bass at all?! Solooo what do I do install an amp? Rail gun I saw your other posts about tapping into the HK amp but how do I do this and from where??
I really just want the two subs under the seat to punch altitude harder that's all!!

 

My system was the stock one, not HK, so a good bit different. There was no external amp, just the HU. So bear that in mind.

If all you want to do is add an amp for the two underseats, I'd do the following:

1) Pick out an 100W+ 2CH amp (with speaker level inputs) that will fit in the utility kit recess under the drivers seat. I went with the JL Audio XD200. I also installed the remote volume control **** so that I could adjust the volume independently from the rest of the system. I put the **** just below my shifter for easy access.

2) Run power (use an in-line fuse, should come with an ) from the battery, through the firewall above the pedals / driver's side. I ran this further along the doors (beneath the trim) and then under the seat to the amp. I tapped into the cigarette lighter power on the back of the center console to act as the 'remote power on' trigger so that the amp is only on when the car is running.

3) Use the existing speaker wires feeding the enclosures as inputs to your new amp. Be sure to mind the polarity!

Remember, though, the signal being fed to those speakers is probably not full bandwidth, and may not make the most out of the SWS8's.

 

Assuming whatever crossover is in the head unit is feeding relatively low frequencies only to the under-seat speakers, wouldn't that be a good thing? It would seem to eliminate the need for some other form of crossover. Or do you think the head unit crossover may be set at a non-optimal frequency?

 

Right, but what if it is only sending 80Hz / 60Hz or lower? The SWS8 can handle 130Hz and down fairly well. But the stock 4" door drivers can only cover down to ~150Hz at the very best. Just watch out for the 80-200Hz hole that is easy to end up with if you are changing out the door speakers too. That's not really where the 'BUMP' is, but is where a lot of 'WARMTH' is. I'll wager that the HK system actually does a fairly decent job of avoiding a gap like that, just not with as much power as many would prefer.

When you start modding, it's possible to lose a step in SQ in some areas. With a full bandwidth feed you could shape that to your liking with the crossovers on a decent amp, maintaining some control / tweakability after that new gear is installed.

Slippery, slippery slope. If you intend to change out doors AND the underseats, and already have the intention of adding an amp for the underseats, go ahead and get a 4CH amp, with crossovers, to cover the front doors too. You will be very glad you did.

Splitting hairs? Maybe But if you are going to invest your time, money and effort into something like this, just wanted to share with you my experience doing similar.

 

Okay sorry I am a visual person so kinda like this but obviously with the battery and ground as well.... Also... If it's not full bandwidth then will it not push them? Like I said just a little kick in the seat would be nice! Or I have read people taping into the speaker wires before the HK amp in the back? Thanks for the help I am really learning allot as well...

 

 

Hey, I appreciate the input for sure. I definitely know that the setup you're describing as an endgame makes a lot of sense. At this point, I think I'm going to swap the four speakers and go unamplified, and then if I'm (inevitably?) dissatisfied, at a 4ch amp with x-overs and finish it off.

 

An update:

The vocals and subs are in, running off the factory amp. Geek Squad did a great job. The Focala are plenty loud off the head unit, but really struggle and distort on the low end at high volume. Apparently they are getting a full range signal, despite the stock under seat woofers' existence, which seems odd. I am going to have them install an in-line crossover/filter at 300 hz.

The Earthquakes under the seat are definitely an improvement. They sound good as-is for sure, but there is definitely some amount of temptation to amp them. I could see them hitting a little harder being satisfying.

 

Maybe one day someone will get to the bottom of that. Maybe they are run in parallel or series...I really don't think there are more than 4 independent channels coming off the HU.

...but 300Hz? I'd suggest somewhere closer to 120-150Hz. I truly believe that would crush the warm, mid-bass zone, which is already such a challenge for the underseats / enclosures. Several times I've tried to run the doors filtered at 250+Hz, and was always shocked at how much better it sounded when I moved back to 120Hz. So much more low-end color and dimensionality---even when I had the IC100s.

 

Just following orders from the installer re: 300 hz. You think 150 would be more appropriate?

 

Yes, IMHO, because:

1) not sure if the stock underseats are covering up to 300Hz, so this could leave a large 'cold' hole in your mid-bass response
2) even if they are, they is almost zero detectable channel separation from the underseats, so you lose a good bit of soundstage in the 100-300Hz range (where, to my ears, is a lot). For me, this is where a lot of the live / full-size sound impact comes from---somewhat dependent on what you like to listen to
3) What you propose would not be easily adjusted post-install

From my experience, I'm a firm believer in giving the doors as much bandwidth as they can handle without buzzing or resonating in the door panels.

I would guess that the distortion you are hearing in the lows from the IC100s is due to not having sufficient current from the stock HU, not that the drivers can't handle the low freqs. A resistor / filter there won't reduce the load on the HU, just convert those freqs to heat rather than sending them to the drivers, and won't ease the burden on the HU at all.

Glad to hear that you are happy with what you've done so far. Also SHOCKED that Best Buy handled those underseats without balking / overcharging!

 

I can second all of Rai1gun's comments.
Once you start down the road of replacing the stock speakers it becomes apparent that having crossover control and amp level adjustment is crucial. From what I can tell the feeds to the door speakers and under-seat drivers from the (non-HK) HU have NO factory crossovers, at least on the door speaker feeds anyway. This was immediately apparent when I replaced the door speakers with the Focals without making any other changes. There was a noticeable "hump" in the upper bass (150-200hz) from the Focals having better response than the factory speakers in that range. If there had been crossovers I would have expected something different. This is reinforced by the fact that I am feeding my amps from the door speaker wires and that signal feeds the under seat bass drivers just fine, hence my conclusion that they are full range.
Regarding crossovers I started with 200hz @ 12db /octave. I now feel the need to experiment with lowering it for all of the reasons Rai1gun mentions. Will keep you posted.

 

Well, based on Rai1gun's comments, I ended up switching to a 200 hz crossover for the door speakers. I am going to have it installed this week and will follow up with how it goes.

 

So, the crossovers certainly help. I will probably just stop here, though I can certainly see the temptation to add some sound deadening material to lessen some panel rattle I'm getting at high volumes, and I could see adding an amp, as I certainly can listen to the head unit-powered speakers at full volume and could handle more. We shall see.

Still, what's been done to date is a massive improvement over stock, so I am happy.