Yes the sound would be very much improved. I found mine on eBay for $150, but that was very lucky.

 

Oh ok, i think i will keep my eye out for one of these then, i have a clubman so how hard is it to change the amp and get the trim off which covers it, where is the amp i dont even know that!

Chris

 

I changed out my lower door woofers to the Harmon Kardon ones back in 2009. This alone is a great upgrade and I haven't had any need to change out the amp.

 

You also might want to take a read of this post.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-in-front.html

 

Ordered the h/k front door speakers (mids and bass) and also got a hk amp, got it all for £300 about $450 so not too bad, i know how to change the speakers is the rear panel hard to remove to get to the amp in the clubman? If i dont get the car re coded will there be an issue as i dont know who to take it to who can code it? thanks for all your advice guys

Chris

 

BUMP!!!

Ok looking at a year and a half later, and I'm wondering what the satisfaction level has been. StrobeyProbey... that amp still good? Fishbert, you still have your HK amp?

Other than Big Jim Swade & RJ, has anyone attempted to replace the HIFI in a Clubbie with the HK system? And has anyone had luck with the HK amp in a non-nav system?

I've copied down a bunch of the info on this thread, and am looking into the speakers, the pillars AND the amp - and am sending out a message to see if my club buddies want to do a Mod Party - one has the reprogramming computer, so in theory, we could reprogram Mocha to accept the HK amp.

Another quick question- I see the HK amp on ebay, but most of them are for R50, R52, R53s. I found only one for an R55. IS there a difference? If not, why does the R55 amp ebay picture look different than the other amps... and what is a Harman/Becker amp?

Thanks in advance... it's been a long time since I've dabbled in stereo gear, and this has required a learning curve!

 

Just to give you a bump on this, I would recommend not changing the amp to a HK unit, only the speakers. If you did deep into this post, most people that tried changing the amp had a lot of problems. The best bang for your buck, is just changing the front doors woofers to the HK units. If you are planning changing the rears, they are a lot more difficult to install and you might want to try aftermarket with a professional installer.

 

Folks,
Can anyone point me to where I can purchase a h/k retrofit kit? ; I've seen the alpine kit and it looks easy enough to do myself. Or would I have to eBay each part? That the only way I've previously seen it, and don't think all that splicing is in my wheelhouse. Appreciate any ideas.

 

This post pertains to going from the 2008 Hi Fi (which was the higher end system for that year) to the 2009 Harmon Kardon system which was much better over the Hi Fi from just a year earlier. If you have a 2013, the choice was the standard system or the HK. You'll prolly need to talk to the dealer about what is required to change it to a HK system.

 

Ok, thanks @big Jim swade

 

Mini Cooper Speaker Upgrade By bavsound
HERE IS THE LINK

https://maitreapp.co/l/770-7af3e6aa

 

Does anyone know what has to be programmed to activate the mobridge da1?

 

Thanks for the info @Joeyliv

 

I also have (since 2010) a 2008 MCCS with HIFI. Didn't really realize how weak the audio was until we got our 2016 MCC with NAV/HK, mainly since it was my wifes DD, and now it's mine. (Don't feel bad for me, my other car is a 911). So is the Alpine system upgrade the best bang for the buck for around $600 for my car?

 

The Alpine upgrade is only for the base standard system (below HIFI). You should be looking for HIFI to HK retrofit, or aftermarket.

 

Ahhh yes, I realize the HIFI is an 8 channel 10 speaker system, but couldn't I just replace the front 6 speakers with the new amp and leave the rears as is? I'm not looking for a competition system here, just an appreciable improvement. Or would the Alpine amp have to replace the HIFI amp, and therefore it is not pin compatible with my head unit that has sat, and such. I am perfectly satisified with the head unit (especially the lifetime XM) and actually have plenty of CDs with just MP3s and it works great. I also use a tune2air for streaming if I want. Just want a bit more power and better speakers. No added sub or such.

 

No. HIFI is configured like HK (but with lower quality components) and doesn't operate like a standard stereo system. For starters, there wouldn't be a good input to use for the Alpine amp. If you use the outputs from the HIFI amp, the signals are already equalized and filtered specifically to match the HIFI speakers. You can't split the input to the HIFI amp either because it is at a fixed volume level (volume is directly controlled by the amp based on digital commands coming from the headunit).

Look at this for a description of the system and upgrading: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-upgrades.html

 

Small clarification on this: in the 1st gen MINI's with HK the HU output was fixed and the volume controlled via CAN bus. In the 2nd gen's they went back to a standard variable voltage output from the headunit. The main problem with trying to put the Alpine in a HIFI/HK vehicle is that the wiring harnesses are completely different. That, and the fact that it is about 1% as good as our Soundstage (even without our subwoofer), but still costs almost half as much.

We're still (and probably always will be) the only plug-n-play full upgrade option for 2nd Gen MINIs. We'll also almost certainly remain the only option with vehicle-specific acoustics. Find someone with a Soundstage™ and take a listen. Unless you've heard it, it's impossible to understand just how good it is.

 

So what happens to the 6x9 sub and tweeters in the back with the Integral system for an '08 MCCS with HIFI? It appears only the fronts are replaced?

 

There is a lot of misinformation & misconception out there on the subject of the rear speakers. The short version: you do NOT want the rear speakers to be anything other than low-level fill. And at the levels required for rear-fill the cost and trouble of upgrading them far outweighs the very small benefit in the MINI.

Having the rear speakers provide more than just rear-fill will destroy your imaging and sound stage by sending confusing cues to your ear-brain. This is particularly true in the MINI where your ears are closer to the rear speakers than the front speakers. Think about this: do you go to a concert and sit facing backwards? What about at home in your living room?* Ever notice that there are never rear speakers at a concert?**

A detailed description of the reason is beyond the scope of a quick post, but here's a brief summary: The ear-brain is a very complex system, and it uses VERY small differences between what the left and right ears hear to determine the location of a sound in space (for more info look up Head-Related Transfer Function, Interaural Time Difference, Interaural Intensity Difference, and Interaural Cross-Correlation). Stereo is by definition 2-channel, and was mixed and intended to be reproduced on 2 channels. Adding rear speakers in a car makes 4 channels, with the rears exactly duplicating the fronts. This means that a sound that should be coming from ONLY the front right channel is now also coming from behind you, AND arriving at a different time and from a different direction. Your ear-brain can't figure out how to integrate these sounds, and you lose the ability to locate where the sound should be in space - no more imaging! Why have the rears at all you ask, given the above? That's a whole other subject, but the short answer is that they are there to provide "spaciousness" (yes, that actually is a technical term) and substitute for reflections that you would get in a typical reverberant room (a vehicle cabin is highly reflective, but it is diffuse, rather than reverberant). If you are facing forwards you'll never notice if they aren't there. But if you turn your head to look at your passenger, for example, it will seem empty behind you. It just sounds/feels unnatural and is a little jarring.

In our Soundstage™ system for the MINI, the rear speakers continue to operate the same way they did before the upgrade, but the levels are reduced to where they should be. The ideal solution would be to time-delay the rears in addition to reducing the levels, but this would add tremendous expense for a small benefit that very few would notice - not something that makes sense in this case.

For a quick little experiment that will demonstrate HRTF/IATD/IITD/etc, do this: sit in a chair with your eyes closed. Have someone walk around you while talking. Notice how you can tell exactly where they are even though you can't see them? When they are to the right of you, it's not to hard to envision that the sounds arriving at your left ear arrive later and at lower intensity than those at your right ear. But what about when they are directly in front or behind you? How is it that you can tell those two apart? That one is pure head-related transfer function: as sound waves move around our heads they are altered and shifted by the shape our heads, and our ear-brain uses this to determine where the sound is coming from. The shape of our heads from back to ear is different than from front to ear, and it results in a different HRTF from each of those directions.

For a more detailed experiment that demonstrates this in a vehicle, do this: fade your audio entirely to the front right. Play a 8kHz test tone. If you just play a short pulse you can identify that it is coming from the front right speaker. However, if you let it play it sounds like it is coming from everywhere, and you can't locate the source. This effect also has to with how our cochlea works, but there is a lot of HRTF/IATD/IITD going on here also.


*This is different situation when you are talking about true multi-channel reproduction (5.1, etc), but ONLY if the music was actually mixed and distributed in this format (i.e. SACD, DVD-A). This is an EXTREMELY small fraction of the available content (probably less than 1%), and applies to an even smaller fraction of the population.

**Some venues have some significant DSP capabilities and do a number of things with it, in those cases you might see other speakers but it does not apply to normal 2-ch audio.

 

Thank you for the detailed and correct response. Having been active in home audio for almost 50 years and an engineer, everything you posted is both accurate and quite real. However, And I am not being rude, but that wasn't what I asked. All I asked was if the IA system addresses the rear speakers. And ironically, in your excellent thesis above, all you said was "they continue to operate the way they did before", which I assume you mean they are untouched and run off the same drivers and amp.

The main reason for rear speakers in an auto is quite complicated. Typically, that is the easier location for non directional bass, and is where your sub is installed. I have no interest in a sub woofer. Its a noisy car, with limited storage (and I carry the compact spare, jumpers, and toolkit in my wheel well) and I don't look for spectacular sonics in one. Rear speakers also allow for more spatial volume with net fewer watts, and surprisingly the HiFi and HK systems do a rather good job of power distribution, with the major amp power going to the front woofers, and sequencially distribute power accordingly. Just as your system does via a superior set of crossovers and far better amp.

So if I WERE to upgrade my system as desired, I would try to tune the enclosure of the 6x9 speakers for just bass, and the tweeters at a very low level for spatial fill. I would LOVE to install the IA system, and for what you get, the $1500 price is quite reasonable. I have no issue with that, what so ever. However, it is quite hard to justify spending $1500 in an 8 1/2 year old car, that is not a primary driver, noisy to boot, and worth maybe $9k on a great day! I consider it foolish to spend about 15% the value of a vehicle for a sound system only occasionally listened to when I have the HiFi (not great, I agree) already, vs the incredibly poor standard system. Unlike stock upgrades, the IA system is vehicle specific so has a far less resale/reuse factor, so I cant even buy it as a longterm return or reuse. My 2016 MCC has the HK system and it is far superior to the older HK systems, and way more than adequate in a far quieter car. I don't want a perfect solution for my '08 MCCS, just one with a little more volume.

 

So, what I am asking, in a roundabout way, is what REALLY is different in CONCEPT between the Alpine upgrade, which today runs around $400 or so, and the IA system which is $1500. The Alpine system is an amp that has drivers designed for the front of the Mini. The IA system is basically the same concept, but significantly better, in execution and quality. Of this I have no doubt. The real difference seems to be the Alpine system is designed for the base head unit, while the IA has different design options for basic vs HiFi. Is the actual frequency response signature of the base HU so much different than the HiFi HU? I find that a stretch. Or is the Alpine upgrade from the base unit only roughly equal to the HiFi I already have? (2008 MCCS..HK was not an option, just base of HiFi), in which case it is total waste of time to even consider it.

Thanks!

 

The same HU is used for base, HiFi, and HK. The differences between the systems are only in the external amp (none in the case of base) and the speakers. If you can get the Alpine for $400, that would be very reasonable, and as an engineer you shouldn't have any problem rewiring the harnesses.

 

Thanks rkw, even at $400, from the other threads you referenced, I now know fully that the Alpine system is a joke and not worth it. Have to decide if I want to bite the bullet and spend $1500 for the IA or just replace a few speakers on the cheap...

 

And to further complicate things, wire colors have not remained consistent over time. The colors of the wires going into the H/K amp in my 2013 R57 are completely different than those used in earlier gen 2 models.