R55/R56 adding a-Pillar Tweeters...amp question

[JohnJohn]

Working on my R55 with Boost radio and 6 new Infinity Kappas...

I ordered and received a set of A-Pillar covers with Tweeters from newminstuff.com. They sent a harness. I can search around how to hook it up, but I have question about an amp and the harness.

Here is the harness.


I want to add an amp at a later date but don't want to pull everything apart again. Can I splice an amp wire into this harness? Can I then install the harness and add the amp later?

Thanks for the help!

[Robin Casady]

I don't know anything about that harness. You might be able to learn something about it on RealOEM.com.

If you are going to add an amp, you may find that the OEM wiring is rather small gauge. Running new wires certainly is a pain, but if you put in a big pump, small pipes may be a limiting factor.

As for the Kappas, I'm not clear on this, but I thought you needed 4 ohm speakers for the standard audio system. Kappas are 2 ohm. You might want to bite the bullet and do the amp now while everything is apart.

[JohnJohn]

Originally Posted by Robin Casady

I don't know anything about that harness. You might be able to learn something about it on RealOEM.com.

If you are going to add an amp, you may find that the OEM wiring is rather small gauge. Running new wires certainly is a pain, but if you put in a big pump, small pipes may be a limiting factor.

As for the Kappas, I'm not clear on this, but I thought you needed 4 ohm speakers for the standard audio system. Kappas are 2 ohm. You might want to bite the bullet and do the amp now while everything is apart.

I thought speakers were speakers, less brand, size etc...They do sound a little better than the stock ones. Just looked up the Kappa's, yup 2ohm, I assume 4ohm is better? Last time a put speakers in a car it was 1990...

Prefer not to run to new wires...I don't need a sub...just looking for some more power so the things don't sound so distorted. When I roll around some songs are maxing out the volume...

I re-ripped my CD collection from hard driving saving 128 MP3, to 328 MP3. That actually helped with most of these tunes.

Talks me down off the ledge please...

[JohnJohn]

I have these

in the back: http://www.infinitysystems.com/car/p...=US&Region=USA

in the front door: http://www.infinitysystems.com/car/p...=US&Region=USA

in the front door: http://www.infinitysystems.com/car/p...=US&Region=USA

Thanks for the help!

[JohnJohn]

Ohms...a good read (for me) http://www.prestonelectronics.com/audio/Impedance.htm

So since I have the 2ohm speakers already in, an amp is the answer? I can push more voltage from the amp to 2ohm'ers than 4ohm'ers.

So right now these speakers are pulling to much voltage off the stock radio...it expects 4ohm to be the max pull at the end, correct?

EDIT: but...the OEM wire may not allow enough voltage...the voltage that the 2ohm'ers require to preform at their best?

[miniSQ]

Originally Posted by JohnJohn

Ohms...a good read (for me) http://www.prestonelectronics.com/audio/Impedance.htm

So since I have the 2ohm speakers already in, an amp is the answer? I can push more voltage from the amp to 2ohm'ers than 4ohm'ers.

So right now these speakers are pulling to much voltage off the stock radio...it expects 4ohm to be the max pull at the end, correct?

EDIT: but...the OEM wire may not allow enough voltage...the voltage that the 2ohm'ers require to preform at their best?

I don't think you understand ohms (impedance) yet....and its too early in the morning to try and explain it to you.

Forget about the oem wires for now...they are fine and will not come into play. Robin and i have had this disagreement and he is choosing not to listen to me...but maybe i can save you hours of frustration.

The short distance that the speaker wire inside the door actually travels will never in a million years be a problems because ot he thinness of it.
But if you think it is...then just cut it on the inside ofthe door and splice heavier wire to it...then it will be thin wire for only a few inches.

Trust me i understand the desire to have nice speaker wire...but in the case of the door panels...sometimes you just have to sacrifice.

Now in terms of 2 ohm vs 4 ohm....you just want to match up the amp and the speaker so that the amp is seeing the impedance at the speaker terminals that it is designed to power. I believe the non-hifi hu ins 2 ohm stable so you should be ok with the speakers you have....BUT....

If it were me i would want to be using 4 ohm comps up front....it is an easier load for the HU to handle, plus most amplifiers are happier powering 4ohms. But that is not to say that it will be hard to find a 2 ohm stable amp...i'm just saying in general 4ohm component speakers present less challenges.

Now when it comes to subwoofers thst a whole new ballgame..becuase here you are generally trying to maximize the amps power, and in order to do that you may want to be down around 2 ohms as the final load to the amp, or even 1ohm depending on the amp and the required power to drive your subwoofer...this is where you don't want to start making purchases until you are sure of what the rest of the system is going to be,

[JohnJohn]

The bottom line for me is this.

I am a Mini Enthusiast who wants a good sounding system, not a Sound System Enthusiast who wants a Mini.

Tossing these A-Pillar tweeters in is something I want to do. That requires the harness pictured above. If want an amp later, I don't want to have top pull the deck apart a second time. Is there a lead on this harness that I can use to splice in a "dead end for now" amp wire.

The harness looks to be a simple go-between from the OEM harness to the deck. I just figure something on it has to be a Power in/out and could be used to amplify.

Thanks for the help so far. I am getting educated

[miniSQ]

Heres another bottom line from an a old sound enthusiast, is becoming a recent mini enthusiast...

a pillar tweeters will not improve the sound of most (including your) systems.

[JohnJohn]

Originally Posted by miniSQ

Heres another bottom line from an a old sound enthusiast, is becoming a recent mini enthusiast...

a pillar tweeters will not improve the sound of most (including your) systems.

agreed...but I already got-em and I don't wanna mail them back over the ocean.

Guess I should have said that upfront, but it was late etc. Forums should be shut down after 11pm user time to stop rant and going on and on like I did.

I'm just trying to get some info about the harness. I understand just enough about sound to waste money. I will admit that. I also understand that the reply'ers so far are trying to save me some money.

Can I run an amp off this harness?
If so which wires should I lead and label for use later?

Should I sell my for front speakers (leaving the 2 ohm 6x9s in the rear)?
If so what should I replace them with in the front doors?

seriously...thanks

[miniSQ]

I'm not trying to save you money...why would i care about that?

I'm just trying to help you get the best sound possible...but it would be almost impossible for anyone to comment on the harness from looking at the picture....did it come with any documentation?

[Robin Casady]

Originally Posted by miniSQ

I don't think you understand ohms (impedance) yet....and its too early in the morning to try and explain it to you.

Forget about the oem wires for now...they are fine and will not come into play. Robin and i have had this disagreement and he is choosing not to listen to me...but maybe i can save you hours of frustration.

You may be right. It is just that the wire size typically used for most amps is considerably larger than the factory wires.

The short distance that the speaker wire inside the door actually travels will never in a million years be a problems because ot he thinness of it.

But if you think it is...then just cut it on the inside ofthe door and splice heavier wire to it...then it will be thin wire for only a few inches.

Trust me i understand the desire to have nice speaker wire...but in the case of the door panels...sometimes you just have to sacrifice.

I think you misunderstand what JohnJohn is doing. He is not tapping into the wires where they go into the doors, he is using the entire factory wiring harness. No new wires anywhere.

Now in terms of 2 ohm vs 4 ohm....you just want to match up the amp and the speaker so that the amp is seeing the impedance at the speaker terminals that it is designed to power. I believe the non-hifi hu ins 2 ohm stable so you should be ok with the speakers you have....BUT....

If it were me i would want to be using 4 ohm comps up front....it is an easier load for the HU to handle, plus most amplifiers are happier powering 4ohms. But that is not to say that it will be hard to find a 2 ohm stable amp...i'm just saying in general 4ohm component speakers present less challenges.

I'm a little fuzzy on how the standard audio is wired in the doors, but I thought that the 4" and 6.5" were wired in parallel so that the two Kappas would only be presenting 1 ohm of resistance to the head unit. Schatzy62 can probably correct me on this.

[miniSQ]

Originally Posted by Robin Casady

I think you misunderstand what JohnJohn is doing. He is not tapping into the wires where they go into the doors, he is using the entire factory wiring harness. No new wires anywhere.

I was talking about your situation...

[Robin Casady]

Originally Posted by miniSQ

I was talking about your situation...

I did not want to cut up the OEM wiring. I may want to put it back to stock if I sell it someday. Running wires into the doors was a major pain in the... However, it is done. Thanks to schatzy62 for some tips.

[JohnJohn]

Man...who started this thread didn't start it very well (Me)

The harness is a "go between" from the back of the head unit to the OEM harness. A +&- come off of the "go between" and run to each of the a-pillar tweeters. Here is a link to what I bought.

Since the harness goes between I was trying to think ahead and run an amp wire off that supplied harness and then just tucking it away to use later.

I got sidetracked on "ohm" thing which I very very little about. Sounds like I need to learn more about it since I bought and installed these speakers.

[miniSQ]

Originally Posted by JohnJohn

Since the harness goes between I was trying to think ahead and run an amp wire off that supplied harness and then just tucking it away to use later.

So i guess to answer your original question...i have a question of my own? What do you mean by amp wire? Do you mean remote turn on wire?

[JohnJohn]

I was thinking an amp would need a "switch on" line from the harness to turn on the amp, then run wire back into the speaker feeds, two channel?

I assume that's all running through the "go-between" harness.

That would leave me with only having to run a direct line from the battery and a ground when I install the amp. right?

[TheAten]

I have been in the mobile audio business for 12 years... unless you want to ruin your seakers do not run them with out a amp of at least 35w rms power a deck runs at best 17rms you will burn out the tweeters unless you only listen a very low volume. I wont even start about compressed music suffice to say I have seen I-pods ruin more equipment than stupidity.

[miniSQ]

Originally Posted by TheAten

I have been in the mobile audio business for 12 years... unless you want to ruin your seakers do not run them with out a amp of at least 35w rms power a deck runs at best 17rms you will burn out the tweeters unless you only listen a very low volume. I wont even start about compressed music suffice to say I have seen I-pods ruin more equipment than stupidity.

maybe you should spend a few more years in the business before making such a bold ( and in this case false) statement....

while i agree in part with what you are saying....you need to maybe rephrase it to be more factual...i promise you i ran a 30watt soundstream amp(d60 II) for many years at VERY loud levels.....and never blew a speaker.

Plus i am currently listening to my mini cooper unamplified front stage at very loud levels with no blown drivers....

[bssiesmth]

Originally Posted by TheAten

I have been in the mobile audio business for 12 years... unless you want to ruin your seakers do not run them with out a amp of at least 35w rms power a deck runs at best 17rms you will burn out the tweeters unless you only listen a very low volume. I wont even start about compressed music suffice to say I have seen I-pods ruin more equipment than stupidity.

I uhm.. .well, I haven't been in any sort of audio business, but I know for a fact that small powered amps won't ruin any speakers. If you are always clipping them, you may indeed damage the tweeter, but to be honest, it has never happenned to me, or anyone else I know. I've seen plenty of damaged woofers, though.

Also, why would compressed music damage a speaker? MP3s and the like work on psychoacoustical principles, and all they do is throw away unused bits. If anything, they roll off the bass and treble, so they shouldn't damage anything. YMMV, but I had never heard of compressed music damaging any audio equipment.

I'm running a pair of Kappas on my car (2 Ohm) and the amp does get a bit bogged down, but I have all the SPL I could ever wish for. It gets pretty loud inside of a small car with 15 W RMS. The stock HU can take it. And my tweeters SING with the power available to them. It's all a matter of a well implemented crossover protecting your tweeter - and most component systems have it. So don't worry!

As for running two pairs of Kappas, though - DON'T. It'll be a 1 Ohm load, and I don't think things are going to get pretty. Besides you'll have 4 tweeters in the front - that's asking for pretty high treble levels! I'd suggest you to use a component system in the front and use the 4" cavities for the tweeters.

Listen to what miniSQ says - he has plenty of experience!

[JohnJohn]

Update -

after playing the new ripped music... things sound better. Turning things up as loud as I was doing would distort anything. I could never get enough bass...and my settings were all jacked up. Setting the iPod on Bass Booster didn't help...

Here is my plan now.

Install the harness
Install the new a-pillar covers with the clarion tweeters.
Turn down the Bass
Install a BOSS Bass600 via the X9331 plug and the run the bass with it's control.

Sorry this thread is going all over the place. I'll post some closer picture of the harness. Maybe I can access the X9331 off that and not have to pull the driver side kick panel apart.

[tominizer]

Adding tweeters to the a-pillars for a front sound stage WILL make a huge difference in a positive way IF installed and tuned right.