Upgrading Stock Speakers on 2009

[LeeMc]

Hello Everyone

My first post to this forum. We just purchased an '09 cooper about four months ago - built to my specs on the website. I think I maybe made a mistake in not opting for the Hi-Fi stereo upgrade which was a $500 option. After driving it a while we LOVE the car but the stock audio system is abysmal! Especially at higher volumes. I am no audiophile but I don't know if I can take it much longer.

I have been searching the forums here and have found some good info but most of it gets way more technical and the mods go way beyond what I would like to do to upgrade. Basically I would like to upgrade the speakers and, from what I have seen on the threads, probably add an amp. I would prefer to do nothing to the head unit. I would like to do as little damage to the stock look of the car as I can (no carving new holes in the doors, no speakers in boxes in the boot or that type of thing). I also would like to not void my factory warranty if that is possible. Although I know everything down line from the head unit would not be covered, I wouldn't want to have some kind of problem somewhere else on the car not be covered because I upgraded my speakers.

Does anyone have any advice? And please talk to me like I am a four year old because as I said I am no audiophile or sound engineer. Like what would be a good choice for speakers, amp, where would be a good locations in the car and how would the amp be wired etc. I saw the sticky thread about upgrading the audio system - but it was for a 2003 model. Are there major difference to the 2009 model?

Thanks

Lee

[LeeMc]

should have posted this in the second gen section

[paul_voorn]

Lee... one word of comfort... you chose well...
The 'upgraded' hifi system is pretty crummy too. So think of it you now have $500 PLUS what other people are spending to upgrade their HIFI systems to get yourself something good.
As I don't have the non-HIFI, I won't make recommendations. But the thread to read is:-

http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/navigation-and-audio/95211-r56-speaker-replacement-how-to.html

Just make yourself a nice cuppa tea and leave yourself 3 hours to read it all (I think the upgrade work itself is quicker ;)

paul

[Robin Casady]

A common first move is to just swap the door speakers. You want something that will work well with the small amount of power the standard audio puts out. I have the HIFI, so my research on speakers wouldn't apply to you. There are threads here about what speakers people used with the standard audio. If you spend enough time wading through them, you should get an idea of what works.

Infinity Reference speakers are a common choice. I started with Infinity Kappas and they were too harsh for my ears. Some people like them. Bright, Neutral, and Warm are some terms that describe one aspect of how speakers sound. Bright sounds clear, but can be tiring to the ears over time. Neutral is ideal. Warm is, warm and fuzzy. Different people like different things. Home theater speakers are often on the bright side to make dialog clearer, and listening time is often limited to the length of a movie.

Polk and JL are said to be good speakers, and they may have some that work without an amp. Some of the higher-end speakers, such as Focal do much better with an amp.

Hardly anyone messes with the head unit in a MINI. It is tied into the onboard computer, so replacing it is not a good idea.

Adding an amp jumps you up in complexity, and you would probably want to consider a professional installer. In most cases, to do it right, you are looking at somewhere around $2-3K for a professional install with amp, speakers, and some other things like Dynamat and a sound processor to remove the odd filtering done by the MINI head unit.

The HIFI would have been a middle-ground option because the extra power would give you more speaker choices. However, after two years with upgraded speakers in the HIFI, I'm going with a new amp and better speakers.

[miniSQ]

Its great that you don't want to replace the stock head unit...because you CAN'T

[bssiesmth]

I'm still formulating a plan, but at least I now have my replacement front speakers: Infinity Kappa 60.9cs. I've read many comments about how bright they are, but at least they have a -6 dB setting. Also, they are 93 dB/W efficient, so they'll get the most out of the stock head unit.

I'll just build a tweeter mounting pod from plywood this week to mount the tweeter on the 4"speaker hole and then aim the tweeters towards the front seats.

I've been thinking what the simplest way to upgrade would be. I'd suppose it would be this:

1) Build a new X9331 pass-thru connector (so as not to splice the factory wiring).
2) Route the FRONT speaker signals to the back of the car.
3) Install a small amp (which I also have now, an MB Quart Discus (for $90 from Amazon.com!!!) on the trunk. I still don't know where to put it, but...
4) Tap the rear cigarrette plug for power, so as not to wire a 12V cable.
5) Install a pair of 6x9 subwoofers in the rear.

Result: amped system which can be removed immediately by connecting the X9331 connector, 2 subwoofers in the rear, component system in the front, close to 100W per channel, completely stock looking.

[Robin Casady]

Originally Posted by bssiesmth

I'm still formulating a plan, but at least I now have my replacement front speakers: Infinity Kappa 60.9cs. I've read many comments about how bright they are, but at least they have a -6 dB setting. Also, they are 93 dB/W efficient, so they'll get the most out of the stock head unit.

I just removed a pair of Infinity Kappa 60.7i that I'll be selling...

I'll just build a tweeter mounting pod from plywood this week to mount the tweeter on the 4"speaker hole and then aim the tweeters towards the front seats.

Is this going to be 1/4" ply? Any thicker and you may have trouble getting the cover back on.

I've been thinking what the simplest way to upgrade would be. I'd suppose it would be this:

1) Build a new X9331 pass-thru connector (so as not to splice the factory wiring).

I'd love to have something like that. How are you going to do it?

2) Route the FRONT speaker signals to the back of the car.

You don't have Park Distance Control, right?

3) Install a small amp (which I also have now, an MB Quart Discus (for $90 from Amazon.com!!!) on the trunk. I still don't know where to put it, but...

I've seen a lot of pictures of false floors in the boot (MINIs don't have trunks ) with an amp and a sub underneath.

4) Tap the rear cigarrette plug for power, so as not to wire a 12V cable.

From what you say later, it sounds like you have a 400 watt amp. I see some 4 gauge wire in your future. A 20 amp fuse covers both the front and rear cigarette sockets.

5) Install a pair of 6x9 subwoofers in the rear.

I just removed a pair of Infinity Kappa 693.7i 6''x9'' 3-way car speakers. They have an external crossover () so there are separate connectors for just the woofer. The tweeter on one is damaged, so I would sell them cheap.

Result: amped system which can be removed immediately by connecting the X9331 connector, 2 subwoofers in the rear, component system in the front, close to 100W per channel, completely stock looking.

If only it were true...

[bssiesmth]

Hi Robin,

Someone around here built the X9331 pass thru. I can't find the thread right now, but there's one with the part numbers for the Molex connectors:

http://www.northamericanmotoring.com...rt-number.html

If I can find the wiring too, I may be able to send the X9331 signals to the back of the car, amplify them, and send the back to the X9331 connector for signal distribution. That way, if I ever want to remove the amp, I'll only need to disconnect it from the front.

I'm kinda worried about the thickness of the front plate, too. I do have 1/4" ply, but I'd like something thinner. I suppose that means ABS or PVC, but so far I haven't been able to find a place where they sell sheets individually (all I've found are 20 sheets or more) If I recall correctly, though, the 4" woofer grilles have quite a bit of space for baffles - the woofers are 3/4" or so away from the grill, aren't they? I'd assume the problem would come if I tried to build a baffle for the 6 1/2" woofer.

I do have the "400W" amp (I'm not sure if it really is 400W or so - after all, it's just 88 dollars!). You are right about the 20A fuse, though. I just don't want to wire a power cable - my plan is to keep the car as stock as possible. I wonder if limiting gain on the amp would make its power draw lower than 20A - I'd rather lose a bit of power, anyway.

My current plan calls for a dedicated 6x9 subwoofer. Either

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=264-837
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=264-864

They both fit. (No, I don't have parking distance control).

So far, the weak spot, it seems, is the amp. I remember the person who built the pass-thru for the X9331 had to pay close to $80 in parts alone. I'm sure it's worth it, though.

[Robin Casady]

Originally Posted by bssiesmth

Hi Robin,

Someone around here built the X9331 pass thru. I can't find the thread right now, but there's one with the part numbers for the Molex connectors:

http://www.northamericanmotoring.com...rt-number.html

I tried three Molex distributors, and Pelican Parts.

Part Number - 1378137

No parts found.

If I can find the wiring too, I may be able to send the X9331 signals to the back of the car, amplify them, and send the back to the X9331 connector for signal distribution. That way, if I ever want to remove the amp, I'll only need to disconnect it from the front.

Effectively, put the amp between the two connectors, right?

I'm kinda worried about the thickness of the front plate, too. I do have 1/4" ply, but I'd like something thinner. I suppose that means ABS or PVC, but so far I haven't been able to find a place where they sell sheets individually (all I've found are 20 sheets or more) If I recall correctly, though, the 4" woofer grilles have quite a bit of space for baffles - the woofers are 3/4" or so away from the grill, aren't they? I'd assume the problem would come if I tried to build a baffle for the 6 1/2" woofer.

Tap Plastic sells ABS by the sq. ft. Some shops will mail order.

I used some 1/4" black plex (acrylic) because I had it. I wondered whether it would be OK for holding a tweeter, or too stiff (not enough damping capability).

I do have the "400W" amp (I'm not sure if it really is 400W or so - after all, it's just 88 dollars!). You are right about the 20A fuse, though. I just don't want to wire a power cable - my plan is to keep the car as stock as possible. I wonder if limiting gain on the amp would make its power draw lower than 20A - I'd rather lose a bit of power, anyway.

My current plan calls for a dedicated 6x9 subwoofer. Either

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=264-837
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=264-864

They both fit. (No, I don't have parking distance control).

So far, the weak spot, it seems, is the amp. I remember the person who built the pass-thru for the X9331 had to pay close to $80 in parts alone. I'm sure it's worth it, though.

Otherwise, you pull the pins and solder onto them. If you find a source for the connectors, please PM me.

[LeeMc]

Thanks for all the input. I guess I should have looked over the second gen section of the forum before posting. I didn't even see it.

I will probably take the first step of putting in new front speakers. Of the speakers you all have recommended, will there be a problem later if I do end up adding an amp? I don't plan on anything massive, maybe a few hundred watts (I am a child of the late '70's early 80's where a couple of hundred watt amp in your car was massive!). I don't want to have to replace the front speakers again because they won't be able to handle the power.

Lee

[Robin Casady]

Originally Posted by LeeMc

Of the speakers you all have recommended, will there be a problem later if I do end up adding an amp? I don't plan on anything massive, maybe a few hundred watts (I am a child of the late '70's early 80's where a couple of hundred watt amp in your car was massive!). I don't want to have to replace the front speakers again because they won't be able to handle the power.

Depends entirely on what speakers you choose. Check the RMS Power Range for different speakers at Crutchfield.com. You are going to want a very low staring number (<10 if possible) so they will play well with your standard audio. The upper number should be used to determine how large an amp you could use. For example:

Focal 165A3 RMS Power Range 6-80 watts
This may work with the standard audio (looks like it is 1/6" oversize). You could then use an amp that had up to 80 watts per channel at 4 ohms.

4 channel amps with 75 watts per channel at 4 ohms are common.

[veg1515]

Depends entirely on what speakers you choose. Check the RMS Power Range for different speakers at Crutchfield.com. You are going to want a very low staring number (<10 if possible) so they will play well with your standard audio. The upper number should be used to determine how large an amp you could use. For example:

RMS power ratings mean nothing , check the sensitivity rating that's the tell tell sign.
typically 3 way speakers have a lower sensitivity than the same speaker in a 2 way.

You should be fine on power.

The access line was desined to be a factory replacement speaker.

[bssiesmth]

I'm almost finished with my fronts. All I'm missing is installing the tweeters.

I can't believe the stock speakers MINI gave us. I'd think that the HiFi option should be the STOCK system, and an H/K system should be optional.

[Robin Casady]

Originally Posted by bssiesmth

I'm almost finished with my fronts. All I'm missing is installing the tweeters.

I can't believe the stock speakers MINI gave us. I'd think that the HiFi option should be the STOCK system, and an H/K system should be optional.

Looks like a new H/K option will be added in 2010. Not sure whether it will replace the HIFI or be an additional option.

[bssiesmth]

What a difference... After aiming the tweeters at the center of the car, near where ears should be, the stereo became listenable. I can't believe how much better it is!!!

The only thing is missing is real bass and the rear speakers. I'm not sure I'll change the rears, though - too much hassle.

One thing I was really susprised. I did an RTA measurement on the fronts and rears. The fronts (Infinity's) were respectably flat up to and above 20 KHz, from 60 Hz or so. The rears had a raising response up to 120 Hz or so, and then they had something like a filter from there to 20 KHz.

It was as if they weren't hi pass filtered, but low pass filtered.

I wonder if they changed something for 2010. I wasn't expecting this.

I'll try to post the RTA measurement later today.

[mdrums]

I am lovin' my new system. I had the stock stereo and had this installed.

Fronts are Hertz High Energy 6.5" and tweet
JL 10" W3 sub in sealed encolsure in the boot
Focal 4.75 amp ch1&2 75 watts ch 3&4 bridged 200w to the sub
Alpine Imprint to flatten the crazy head unit freq eq and it has Audessy to tune the system and I can tweak further from there with the crossovers and parametric eq's

The system is extremely punchy all around. Bass is tight punchy and deep. mids ar warm and smooth and the highs have some air and are not shrill. I am not useing the rear speakers because I hate rear fill because it kills the soundstage.

[bubblehelix]

Originally Posted by Robin Casady

Focal 165A3 RMS Power Range 6-80 watts

I've heard from people on this board that 3-way speakers are harder to tune and install... is this true? I've narrowed my speaker search to either the 3-way Focal 165A3 (maybe V3E) or the 2-way Focal 165KR... is there an advantage/disadvantage to choosing one over the other?

I'm planning to install the fronts myself -- Focals in front running on the HiFi amp, and will consider adding an amp/sub if warranted once I hear how the fronts sound.

[jhirschkoff]

Ok,... so I replaced the fronts with Focal 165VR3's and the backs with 690CVX's and I have a summing network and an Alpine 150x4 PDX to power it all. Unfortunately, the mini head unit is so very limited on sound adjustment.

Is there a sound processor or equalizer I can use to get a better sound? is mini ever going to make a software update to at a little more functionality into there system???

Thanks,
Joel

[brightwhite]

I also understand that if you have Bluetooth, the phone audio comes through the back speakers, so if you want to install an amp and get full bass on the rear speakers, you need to use an adapter from newministuff.com

http://www.newministuff.com/new/shop...uctshow&id=469

This will remove the low-pass filter Mini has put on the rear speakers that limits the bass response. Then, just wire up your amp, install your new speakers and you're good to go. Or so I understand.

[Robin Casady]

Originally Posted by jhirschkoff

Ok,... so I replaced the fronts with Focal 165VR3's and the backs with 690CVX's and I have a summing network and an Alpine 150x4 PDX to power it all. Unfortunately, the mini head unit is so very limited on sound adjustment.

By "summing network" do you mean something like a CleanSweep?

Is there a sound processor or equalizer I can use to get a better sound?

There are car audio equalizers available, if that is what you want. A number of companies make them. Seach for "car audio equalizer" at Crutchfield to get a listing of them.

is mini ever going to make a software update to at a little more functionality into there system???

[jhirschkoff]

yes,... a summing network to take the low level outputs from the hi-fi amp combine and then redistribute.

all I want is a better sound, and I'm wondering if this is a way to it. The speakers and amp are top notch, I think the problem is the filtering in the head unit. I have an aux input directly into the summing network for my ipod, if I use this, the music is very much clearer than if I use mini supplied aux input, the radio and satellite are similarly lackluster.

[miniSQ]

So what is it that you want to improve upon? Do you have a sub?

I also am building a nice system, and am not quite convinced that the HU is putting out a decent flat signal, so i am going to buy the clean sweep to straighten that part out, but i also have a 1/2 octave equalizer that will help me too.

I do not expect the cleansweep to make a drastic difference, but without it i i think its an uphill battle to get great sound. But i m not buying it for the summing...i am buying it to flatten the signal.

Have you looked at the audio control dql-8 ? I may choose that over the cleansweep,,,i just haven't decided...i would like to hear a cleansweep .....i have heard it can sound a little dead..

[bssiesmth]

After working for weeks and weeks on the stock system, I'm completely sure changing speakers and expecting a huge change is wrong. The stock amps cannot adequately power anything. It gets shrill and bothersome at anything resembling listening levels. Agh, you really need an amp in this car!