Navigation POI search issues???

[Robin Casady]

Originally Posted by TheBigNewt

...and software are easy,

Having spent 20 years in the software publishing business, this strikes me as very funny.

it's the actual piece that goes into the car that costs to make.

I expect the development of the hardware and software are significant cost factors in the NAV.

$2000 has been the price because, well, that's always been the price. It'll come down I bet because I wager they're only in it maybe $400 (that's about what Apple charges ATT for an iPhone with 3 radios in it). We'll see I guess.

How many iPhones are sold, compared to how many MINIs with NAV?

[TheBigNewt]

Originally Posted by Robin Casady

How many iPhones are sold, compared to how many MINIs with NAV?

A lot of course, but that's not my point. My point was that the NAV is way overpriced, not compared to other car NAVs but compared to devices that do similar functions with their hardware/software. An excellent dedicated Garmin fully mounted in a car is a fraction the price of the Mini's NAV. Mini options are expensive, but the NAV is almost 10% of the base price of an MCS. The sales tax alone would buy you a lot of Garmin models. I know you like yours and I'm sure it's a cool accessory but it should cost more like $500. They'd still make plenty on it. Apple makes a ton on every iPhone at $400.

[Minidrivr]

There's also the dead reckoning. If you can even find a Garmin anymore with that, and get a licensed tech to install it, you're nearly the price of the OEM Nav. Since most of Garmin's models that support dead reckoning are discontinued (Streetpilot 7500 for example), you can find them for about $1000, but that still leaves the install of cabling.

OEM Nav is like every other Mini option, they are all ridiculously over-priced. $2k for leather when I bought mine. It provides close to zero function; just looks and feel, unlike the Nav which does a who lot more for that money. I have almost a dozen portable Nav's btw.

[Robin Casady]

Originally Posted by Minidrivr

OEM Nav is like every other Mini option, they are all ridiculously over-priced. $2k for leather when I bought mine. It provides close to zero function; just looks and feel, unlike the Nav which does a who lot more for that money.

Yes, MINI options are overpriced. Their horribly heavy wheels are way over-priced. The HIFI audio is $500 and gives you a nasty little amp with not much power, and four cheap tweeters. The list goes on. It isn't just the NAV. Options may be where MINI makes its profit. Anyone know what % of revenue is profit for MINI? I doubt it is much greater than Honda, VW, etc.

[TomLINY]

Navteq seems to be charging almost as much for a map upgrade as they do for the original disc that comes from the manufacturer. Maybe a discount if you returned your outdated disc? My complaint is that the first disc is complete, custom made for MINI, and worth close to $200. The update disc is 99% identical, and will still never be anywhere near current.

Navteq could develop a system to create a DVD using current data and either mail a custom disc, or allow a customer to burn their own. With such a system, you could order a map for Navteq the week before your cross country drive, or after a new road is mapped, rather than waiting for their 18 month update.

[Minidrivr]

Originally Posted by TomLINY

Navteq could develop a system to create a DVD using current data and either mail a custom disc, or allow a customer to burn their own. With such a system, you could order a map for Navteq the week before your cross country drive, or after a new road is mapped, rather than waiting for their 18 month update.

It would be nice if Navteq had updates like Garmin's NuMap program. Their Lifetime option gives you up to 4 updates per year, as they become available, for the life of the device. All for $120. You can find them cheaper as well from their resellers. Costco had the NuMaps Lifetime for $99.

[TheBigNewt]

Originally Posted by Minidrivr

It would be nice if Navteq had updates like Garmin's NuMap program. Their Lifetime option gives you up to 4 updates per year, as they become available, for the life of the device. All for $120. You can find them cheaper as well from their resellers. Costco had the NuMaps Lifetime for $99.

TomTom updates are $8 for 3 months worth. I never buy lifetime updates because I won't live a whole lifetime lol.

[Birdman]

Just FYI, it doesn't cost Navteq a single penny to make the mapdisc updates. The updates are done by the US "goberment", with your hard earned tax dollars. The only thing Navteq does do with the data before they release it to Mini/bmw is, scramble the POI database!!

Regarding the price of the hardware/software for the Nav system. It should be "FREE" in this day and age if you me. "Free" meaning, it should not be an option, it should be standard equipment like the windshield wipers. You can buy a Garmin Nuvi toucshcreen, with maps of the entire WORLD, including MARINE charts (much more complicated and detailed) that also receives XM live weather radar/NEXRAD updates, does auto routing in both marine and land use, AND is also a phone and MP3 player/Ipod type device, all for $99.

But the car manufacturers (not just mini!) can't add it to the car for less than $2000?? Give the cost arguments a rest. Cell phones were $2000 20 years ago, they are essentially free now. And so should Nav systems be.

Yep, the software update was a false alarm. But you all knew that cause there's no way mini/bmw would support their product properly. I loved my mini, great riding fun economical little car, ruined by absolutely NO support from mini/bmw (cold start problem, broken navigation software).

I've now bought 3 new cars since the mini, and none have been a bmw or mini. Eventially, they will loose market and be fore sale/bankrupt. Mark my words.

[Birdman]

Originally Posted by TheBigNewt

TomTom updates are $8 for 3 months worth. I never buy lifetime updates because I won't live a whole lifetime lol.

LOL!!

[minicooperwill]

Originally Posted by Birdman

Just FYI, it doesn't cost Navteq a single penny to make the mapdisc updates. The updates are done by the US "goberment", with your hard earned tax dollars. The only thing Navteq does do with the data before they release it to Mini/bmw is, scramble the POI database!!

Regarding the price of the hardware/software for the Nav system. It should be "FREE" in this day and age if you me. "Free" meaning, it should not be an option, it should be standard equipment like the windshield wipers. You can buy a Garmin Nuvi toucshcreen, with maps of the entire WORLD, including MARINE charts (much more complicated and detailed) that also receives XM live weather radar/NEXRAD updates, does auto routing in both marine and land use, AND is also a phone and MP3 player/Ipod type device, all for $99.

But the car manufacturers (not just mini!) can't add it to the car for less than $2000?? Give the cost arguments a rest. Cell phones were $2000 20 years ago, they are essentially free now. And so should Nav systems be.

Yep, the software update was a false alarm. But you all knew that cause there's no way mini/bmw would support their product properly. I loved my mini, great riding fun economical little car, ruined by absolutely NO support from mini/bmw (cold start problem, broken navigation software).

I've now bought 3 new cars since the mini, and none have been a bmw or mini. Eventially, they will loose market and be fore sale/bankrupt. Mark my words.

Where to begin?

"scramble the POI database!! "

"FREE" -- Just because something is standard equipment, it is not "free."

"can't add for less than $2000??" -- They could, but they are a BUSINESS. And cell phones still have monthly expenses which is why they aren't too concerned about the price of the phone itself. I don't pay anything extra monthly to use my NAV.

[The_iaiN]

"Free" cell phones are charged to the bill for your service plan. Plans could be cheaper if they didn't subsidize phones.

[Birdman]

Originally Posted by minicooperwill

"can't add for less than $2000??" -- They could, but they are a BUSINESS. And cell phones still have monthly expenses which is why they aren't too concerned about the price of the phone itself. I don't pay anything extra monthly to use my NAV.

I suspect the extra $25 it costs to install a built in Navigation system (that IS what the cost from China right now!) can be included in the $30k we paid for the car, don't you think?

Originally Posted by minicooperwill

"3 new cars since the mini" -- Oh, each one of them must've been perfect! What are/were they? It must be nice to have cars which are 100% problem-free where you don't have to worry about the support you demand. And consider your words "marked." BMW has been around for 93 years; Mini/MINI for 50. I hardly doubt your NAV obsession will sink them.

Chrysler, Opel, Fiat, Datsun..... were also all around for many years. Never say never! And whether they go under or not isn't the issue, they surely would sell more cars, have better owner satisfaction, if they included a nav system that worked, and was priced reasonably.

My other 3 new cars are 2 Audi's and a Lexus, all working just fine without any problems, YET! (knock knock knock on wood). All 3 with Nav that actually works as advertised, with a POI db that can be searched properly.

[Birdman]

Sales down 40% in November alone. Partly due to economy I'm sure, (although these little cars sell better in a down economy), but also partly because they don't offer a Nav system that works as advertised.

18 pages and going, probably one of the longest and most read threads on this site. Me thinks it's hardly a case of the sky falling. More like an appropriate thread, one which Mini should solve by FIXING the broken softare.

[Birdman]

If we could ONLY get Mini/BWM to spend as much time solving the problem instead of defending themselves on this and other websites, the broken software would be fixed already!!

[Lightyr]

Originally Posted by Birdman

Chrysler, Opel, Fiat, Datsun..... were also all around for many years. And whether they go under or not isn't the issue, they surely would sell more cars, have better owner satisfaction, if they included a nav system that worked, and was priced reasonably.

Maybe you don't realize Datsun is Nissan and I hadn't heard Fiat was going out of business.

I really don't think they're losing any business due to any nav issues.

[Birdman]

GABOOOOMMM!!!!!!! The sound of bringing this HUGE clunky thread up to the top, where it should be a sticky for 2 reasons:
1. Mini/BMW should be THOUROGHLY embarrased for STILL selling this crap.
2. Prospective new mini buyers should be forwarned about the BROKEN NAVIGATION SOFTWARE before they spend $2,100 on it. Spend your money on a Garmi n Nuvi for $100 and search all the POI's you want, with NO category!!

[KevinC]

This thread shouldn't be sticky'd, it should be DELETED at this point.

[daflake]

^^ What he said! C'mon mods, how long is this going to go on?

[Birdman]

Originally Posted by daflake

^^ What he said! C'mon mods, how long is this going to go on?

Until they FIX it, and STOP selling broken, defective software. You don't see anything wrong with the fact they are STILL selling the same broken software?

[Birdman]

I'm doing a HUGE service to prospective buyers, so they are educated prior to getting ripped off $2,100.

And if you are anoyed by the thread, don't click on it. Problem solved.

[Birdman]

Originally Posted by daflake

^^ What he said! C'mon mods, how long is this going to go on?

So, whould we also stop discussing and postign about the "Cold Start Issue" as well? Would be the same logic, it's an old problem that has yet to be solved, why discuss it any longer, right?

[MrCooperS]

Alright folks, let's play nicely now. Please remember the site guidelines when posting.

RESPECT
When posting, both members and vendors must ALWAYS be respectful of fellow members and vendors. Personal attacks, trolling/baiting, deliberate antagonizing, and flaming will not be tolerated. If you feel you are being attacked, report the post or private message rather than replying or flaming back. However, do not use the report bad post feature to "cry wolf" when you are in fact the instigator of the demise of a discussion. Doing so will result in an infraction or strike.

[Motor On]

It has been quite clear for many months now (going back and reading this thread) that birdman no longer (if ever) has any interest in improving his navigation system but is rather dedicated to the sole cause of providing detriment to BMW/MINI. The thread is now locked, as nothing constructive is coming from it and people are only racking up infractions as they cannot be respectful to one another. If someone has an issue with the POI database that they'd like to fix they'd be welcome to and benefit more, from just starting a new thread.