Navigation POI search issues???

[minicooperwill]

So I was wondering:

Once someone has the DVD, is it something that others can use? Does it stay in the car all the time or does it take what it needs and you then take it out? If it stays in, has anyone tried burning their own copy off of someone elses? I REALLY hate the idea of having to spend almost $200 to get a few new roads added, especially when the cost of a blank DVD is pennies and their couldn't have been THAT much labor involved.

[Robin Casady]

Originally Posted by minicooperwill

So I was wondering:

Once someone has the DVD, is it something that others can use? Does it stay in the car all the time or does it take what it needs and you then take it out? If it stays in, has anyone tried burning their own copy off of someone elses? I REALLY hate the idea of having to spend almost $200 to get a few new roads added, especially when the cost of a blank DVD is pennies and their couldn't have been THAT much labor involved.

That much labor involved in what? Keeping track of all road changes in the USA, then updating the map graphics?

[Eric_Rowland]

Originally Posted by Robin Casady

Birdman swooping in to drop this BS again. He did before, in July.

http://www.northamericanmotoring.com...0-post511.html

+1
I feel sorry for the newbies who take his 'advice' on the road to nowhere. Thanks for the link.

Originally Posted by Robin Casady

That much labor involved in what? Keeping track of all road changes in the USA, then updating the map graphics?

+1
I'm not happy dropping that kind of change either, but sounds like kind of a big project...

[kyounger]

Originally Posted by minicooperwill

So I was wondering:

Once someone has the DVD, is it something that others can use? Does it stay in the car all the time or does it take what it needs and you then take it out? If it stays in, has anyone tried burning their own copy off of someone elses? I REALLY hate the idea of having to spend almost $200 to get a few new roads added, especially when the cost of a blank DVD is pennies and their couldn't have been THAT much labor involved.

The disk stays in the car.

Keith

[MotorMouth]

So another hit-and-run by birdman?

[Robin Casady]

Originally Posted by MotorMouth

So another hit-and-run by birdman?

[TheBigNewt]

That's pretty steep imo, especially when outfits like TomTom will update your maps online for a heckuva lot less. Considering you paid over 2 grand for the unit I think they should upgrade your maps for a minimal fee as support, not trying to make more money off you. I'm sure the road map software floats around in NAV land to be had by anyone. Just my .02

[Robin Casady]

I wouldn't argue about $200 being too much. Haven't updated mine since 2007. I'm just saying that there is more to producing it than the cost of DVD duplication, and piracy is not justified. I suspect they could sell a lot more of them at $100. Probably enough to make more off upgrades than they do now.

[minicooperwill]

I'm not disputing that there is labor involved in updating the maps. But I'd say it is no more labor than what paper map makers or Yahoo maps or Google encounter. I know Yahoo and Google sell advertising, but how in the world can mapmakers sell a map for under $10? They have graphics costs as well. Putting it on a disk is probably around the same cost, maybe even less.

I guess it comes down to supply and demand, like anything else. NAVteq or whatever the company is isn't supplying a lot, but at $199, I can't imagine there is a huge demand either.

[Robin Casady]

The cost is amortized over the number of projected sales. A NAV disk for a MINI has a lot fewer potential customers than a paper map, but as I said, they probably are shooting themselves in the foot with the $200 price.

[TomLINY]

Doesn't Garmin charge about $75 for an upgrade? Or something like $90 for unlimited upgrades for the life of the gps? Any price over $100 is very tough to swallow, but put a reasonable price on it, and I'll upgrade every year!

Based on the number of MINI nav units sold, we're probably lucky they aren't charging $500!

[minicooperwill]

Originally Posted by TomLINY

Based on the number of MINI nav units sold, we're probably lucky they aren't charging $500!

Don't give them any ideas!!!

[Robin Casady]

Originally Posted by TomLINY

Doesn't Garmin charge about $75 for an upgrade? Or something like $90 for unlimited upgrades for the life of the gps?

Garmin can amortize the costs over quite a few units.

Any price over $100 is very tough to swallow, but put a reasonable price on it, and I'll upgrade every year!

Based on the number of MINI nav units sold, we're probably lucky they aren't charging $500!

My thoughts, exactly.

[Minidrivr]

Originally Posted by TomLINY

Doesn't Garmin charge about $75 for an upgrade? Or something like $90 for unlimited upgrades for the life of the gps? Any price over $100 is very tough to swallow, but put a reasonable price on it, and I'll upgrade every year!

Based on the number of MINI nav units sold, we're probably lucky they aren't charging $500!

Garmins pricing is $69.99 for NuMaps one time and $119.99 for lifetime updates. That's for one device and only the newer ones like the Nuvi's and Zumo's (may be a few others as well). They give you a one time free update for 60 days from initial use if they release an update.

[TomLINY]

I guess the important part of this equation is to know how long it takes Navteq to take their standardized map and POI data, and convert it into a custom disc for BMW/MINI.

What percentage of MINI's have factory nav? 5%? I don't think they publish stats on this.

[minicooperwill]

Originally Posted by TomLINY

What percentage of MINI's have factory nav? 5%? I don't think they publish stats on this.

That's a good question. I know it is VERY rare to see one on the dealer lot with a NAV. Even then, its probably a car someone ordered and then backed out on.

[Robin Casady]

Originally Posted by TomLINY

I guess the important part of this equation is to know how long it takes Navteq to take their standardized map and POI data, and convert it into a custom disc for BMW/MINI.

After you amortize the cost of updating their standardized map over total projected sales.

What percentage of MINI's have factory nav? 5%? I don't think they publish stats on this.

No idea. I think it is higher than 5% of people here, but may be different over the total customer base.

[MotorMouth]

It's much less than 1% in Hawaii.

[Robin Casady]

Originally Posted by MotorMouth

It's much less than 1% in Hawaii.

Too few roads to need a NAV?

[coolkev99]

Hey all... first off this thread is legendary.

Secondly the POI search does indeed suck, but it can be OK occasionally, depending on how lucky you are at choosing a category.

Lastly I'd like to point out that some other auto manufacturers built-in factory NAV systems WILL NOT allow you to use the POI functions (and sometimes other functions) AT ALL while the car is moving. Even if I don't feel safe doing it while driving someone in the passenger seat can.

So in my opinon, crappy POI that you can use anytime > good POI only use while car is stopped.

[TheBigNewt]

I predict that NAV sales will decline pretty soon unless they drop the price ($2000 in almost every new car) because smartphones are coming with GPS/POI that's updated without messing with the phone at all. And as more people get Garmins for presents every year (got my TomTom last year) they'll have a harder time dropping 2 grand for it on a car they'll keep about 5 years ($33/mo). I'm sure it's a high profit addon and all but the wow factor is probably wearing off and the smartphone thing is competition. BTW TomTom offers map updates for $8 a quarter. I put NAV in a similar category to satellite radio. Cool accessory but expensive and there's other stuff that's come out (Pandora) that's way cheaper and similar. Just my .02.

[Robin Casady]

Originally Posted by TheBigNewt

I predict that NAV sales will decline pretty soon unless they drop the price ($2000 in almost every new car) because smartphones are coming with GPS/POI that's updated without messing with the phone at all. And as more people get Garmins for presents every year (got my TomTom last year) they'll have a harder time dropping 2 grand for it on a car they'll keep about 5 years ($33/mo). I'm sure it's a high profit addon and all but the wow factor is probably wearing off and the smartphone thing is competition. BTW TomTom offers map updates for $8 a quarter. I put NAV in a similar category to satellite radio. Cool accessory but expensive and there's other stuff that's come out (Pandora) that's way cheaper and similar. Just my .02.

According to an article in MotoringFile, there is a new GUI for the NAV in the works. I believe it adds some new features to help it stay competitive with phones. So, it will probably stay expensive and continue to draw a % of MINI buyers. POI is a small part of what the NAV adds to the MINI.

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by Robin Casady

According to an article in MotoringFile, there is a new GUI for the NAV in the works. I believe it adds some new features to help it stay competitive with phones. So, it will probably stay expensive and continue to draw a % of MINI buyers. POI is a small part of what the NAV adds to the MINI.

I saw the video of it, looks like a BIG improvement. Alas, at least one '10 owner confirms that the "old" version is still in the newest cars.

As for using a smartphone instead of a built-in GPS - I don't see that being a big factor, holding an iPhone with Navigon built-in and trying to drive/navigate is nearly impossible (ask me how I know). But the ~$2k price is indeed hideous, and they all seem to be staying near that number, at least for now. It is indeed a horrible buy, but lots of people (or enough apparently) continue to spring for it. I did simply because I can't stand the speedo without it, plus I wanted all the other integration it provides.

As for the cost of new maps - $200 is a joke. All it is is a standard NAVTEQ map, same thing used in tons of applications, it's not like they have to amortize the cost across nothing but MINIs. Yet another huge profit item for MINI.. I strongly suspect their cost is <$50. BMW really knows how to pull in the big bucks from the option list.. try adding just a few options to a 3-series and watch the price quickly reach into the stratosphere.

[rkw]

Originally Posted by KevinC

As for the cost of new maps - $200 is a joke. All it is is a standard NAVTEQ map, same thing used in tons of applications, it's not like they have to amortize the cost across nothing but MINIs. Yet another huge profit item for MINI.. I strongly suspect their cost is <$50. BMW really knows how to pull in the big bucks from the option list..

I would fault Navteq more than BMW/MINI for the high cost of the map disc. Navteq's discs are uniformly about $200 MSRP across different car brands, and the price is the same if you purchase a disc directly from Navteq. MINI of course buys from Navteq at a wholesale price and makes a profit, but it might not be not as much as you think because Navteq also wants to squeeze out as much as they can from each transaction.

[TheBigNewt]

I think the price depends on what they think they can get for it, because it's certainly not expensive technology overall. The radio and software are easy, it's the actual piece that goes into the car that costs to make. $2000 has been the price because, well, that's always been the price. It'll come down I bet because I wager they're only in it maybe $400 (that's about what Apple charges ATT for an iPhone with 3 radios in it). We'll see I guess.