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Well done Morristown!
I feel a connection to them, since that's where I ordered my mirror caps from...all the way down here in Dallas TX!! Great to see such a thoughtful company still in existence in today's economy!!
Worthy non-profits getting the MINI-Es are fine - if this intent was disclosed from the start by MINI to us which was not the case. They are just trying to unload them at this time.
A significant number of MINI Es in NJ will be going to non Pioneers. Newark NJ is getting 14 as of today (June 26) and more are headed to public power and utility companies at various cities (30? 40?).
Am I the only Pioneer who's unhappy about this development?
Ed - no you're not the only one. At least you have your car - how do you think I feel? 5 days since I took delivery - I've driven it all of 60 miles and now it's sitting in the shop waiting on a brain transplant.
Did you ever see the movie "Gung Ho" with Michael Keaton? He plays a laid-off auto plant manager hired by the Japanese to run a new US plant. The plant is going to be closed unless they can produce a record number of cars in one month. The final two they roll out are pure "vaporware" - nothing under the hood, and all the external parts are just propped there - after the deadline passes they disintegrate. I feel like I got one of those.
BUT - we all have our reasons for wanting to be part of this, and one way or another we made our peace with the $850. Maybe for some lucky few of us the money is truly inconsequential - I can assure you that isn't the case with me. What it comes down to - do we think Mini was being straight with us, and what do we think were their motivations and intentions for the program. We've held up our part of the bargain - have they?
I personally believe they aren't in this solely as some fancy accounting gimmick just to get the CARB credits, or that they intended all along to "dump" a bunch of these on fleets. I have no idea how the CARB credits actually work or how much they are "worth" but I've been around a few R&D projects and can't believe the credits are worth enough to justify the $$ and headaches of a complete start-up program. And if that had been their sole intention, they would have done the smart thing and worked ONLY with government and corporate fleets and stayed away from the public - that's what most demos do, and for a good reason = FAR fewer "moving parts".
I think BMW is a smart business - they saw that electric cars are inevitable if only because governments are going to be pressured to reduce GHG and oil use - and they decided they wanted to be a leader rather than a follower in the industry - so they instituted the Project i program, and decided to send a message and make it "high-profile" by involving the general public and not just some obscure gov't fleets. I know the CARB credits were one major motivation - Mini has said so itself - but that probably just affected the timing, not the intent of the program. They pegged the lease rate very high to keep the applicants to a manageable level and weed out the "tire-kickers". Then they ran into the problems that any R&D effort has when it's given a hard deadline - and they've had to scramble to adjust. Been there, done that. Plus, I'm sure the crappy economy and charger install "surprises" have taken their toll on the participant pool - so more last minute scrambling. But I don't think they planned it that way from day one.
So where does that leave the pioneers/pigs? Well, I think once the dust settles, the equitable thing would be for Mini to adjust our lease rates, given what we've been through already (and who knows what's ahead) and the fact that, intended or not, there will be a bunch of Mini E drivers paying nothing. Like I said, 850 (plus the out-of-pocket costs/headaches for the charger install) has done its job of retaining only those of us crazy enough to do this properly. So bring the lease down to something resembling a "market" rate for a cool distinctive car. I know there are $300/month lease deals out there for a decently equipped Mini, but to me that number feels right at about $500. If they want a "scientific" way of doing it - take the $49k price they've determined is the book value, but amortize it over a 3-5 year lease - the 1-year thing is a restriction of the R&D program, and not the period any of us would have chosen.
Sorry for the long post. I'd rather be out driving Electra, but I can't do that right now.
I have no problem with the non-profits getting a few cars or the price for us being $850. That was basically a given and told to us in advance.
My problem is them giving away them to companies(non non-profits) and towns just to dump them because of their lack of planning. If they told us they were free they would have a line out the door for people wanting them so I understand their point but maybe they will do something for us besides just waving the first payment but that will unravel in the next month or so. hint hint BMW if your reading...
I can only imagine the people that dropped out due to the contractors, my first one was horrible all around (late, never got an estimate, no show). I still have no information on the cost of the charger install.
As for the all the troubles with some cars, it is to be expected with something of this nature and it was told to us. I would have highly doubted all 500 going out and having no problems, I would say half of us will have to make an unscheduled visit for a major problem.
Steve & blacknj,
30 minutes after I heard about Morristown, I received another email about 49 MINI Es from Monrovia CA going to 2 cities (Pasadena & South Pasadena) and the previously announced allocation to the LA Sheriff's office. I spoke to Rich Steinberg and Marian Hawryluk about 2 weeks ago - the call was prompted by my email to MINI USA and BMW USA. I asked them point blank how many paying Pioneers were left in the program - they didn't know brcause the situation was "fluid". This was before 2 Pioneers were kicked off the program (Jeff U'ren in CA and one more in NY/NJ).
My current count is roughly 130~140 MINI Es leased at $10/month rate.
I'm in Mexico on a 1 week "forced vacation" - obviously away from MINI E #017. Hopefully I'll have a clear head about this by the time I return and be able to make a rational decision - or decision will be made for me. Perhaps if there´s enough interest we should schedule a conference call with Rich.
BTW, I love reading long, well thoughtout, coherent posts
Hang in there guys...
Ed
__________________ MINI PIG #017
Last edited by Edjurye; 06-27-2009 at 07:41 PM.
Reason: typo
I don't think the people running this program got the proper training or had the proper preparation time to do this right at all. It seemed to me all along that the MINI-E team had little knowledge of EVs or the history of other EV programs or the grassroots EV movement in general. Many of their customers knew more about their own product than the MINI-E team. Many could have told them that installing the chargers could be a nightmare if you don't prep it right. I would have loved to seen their plan. And yes, dumping the cars now on non-green non-profits, non-dedicated MINI-E pioneers, just willy nilly is so telling.
It makes me wonder if all along the plan was to make plug-in BEVs look too expensive and too hard to own for the public to ever consider wanting one.
I opted out of the program because, among other things, I could not stand imagining myself next to a traffic enforcement lady in a Mini E writing me a freaking ticket or a cop sitting on his big fat a...(not sure whether that would fit into the Mini E) waiting for me to speed by.
I mean it is ok to give them away, as you guys correctly say if that's disclosed. But initially 50 units (now more than 130 and that does not include the BMW NJ guys) supposed to go to munis and it was also not disclosed that they would get them for $10. You know why they are priced at $10? It is because otherwise they would not take them. They had to make the offer too good to be true.
Now can you guys make an argument to get the lease rate reduced? You sure could, unfortunately these macro factors don't matter for your lease agreement. So formally, there is no chance to get the lease rate reduced. The only thing you can lay out to them is that that would be good publicity. But I guess they don't care as long as they are so many happy lessees giving rosy testimonies as they have more cash than they can spend as it seems. Whoever calculates the cost of this on an individual basis MUST come to the conclusion that it does not make economic sense. And it shows that the actual market potential for the car at $850 a month is... maybe 350 people. One of my problems was also that although there was great interest in my friends driving the car, once I told them how much it would cost they asked me whether I would still be right in my mind. While I can gauge that myself, if one drives this car to be special, to be one of a few, to be leading the mass, this is now being given a sour note, and all because of BMW's generous attitude which is because they were running out of time.
Hyper Blue '05 MCS. Whalen. 15% pulley, JCW Exhaust, 380's, RMW tune.
Nigel 2006 CR/checkered flag!
MINI PIG #017
