AWD vs snow tires!!!

[rigidjunkie]

OK so this weekend's snow gave me the opportunity to drive both my car with new snow tires and Jill's Subaru with AWD and all season tires.

I must say I think the snow tires help more than AWD. The Subaru has no problem getting going and I can really feel it sending the power around to the wheels that grip. Problem is the brakes are just normal car brakes and they do a terrible job slowing the car in relation to how well it accelerates. The snow tires on the other hand are grippy both in moving forward and stopping the car. I had trouble getting the ABS to kick in and loved the rooster tail when the tires are pulling the car forward.

I know others have Subarus and snow tires what do you all think? Personally I think next year the Subaru will be getting a set of snow tires and wheels for the ultimate snow machine!!!

[IMGRFX]

Allen -
I'm debating the same thing. I have 1 year old all seasons on the Outback. I don't like them. I skidded about 15 feet on Saturday -- ABS was fully engaged and I was still sliding -- oh.. and this was in a parking lot! I felt the same way in the first snow of December last year and let it go as through the season I was OK with them. The question is... am I used to driving my MINI and just going too fast? Or do I really have all seasons that are not good in snow? The debate continues.

[B.A.D.]

Originally Posted by IMGRFX

Allen -
I'm debating the same thing. I have 1 year old all seasons on the Outback. I don't like them. I skidded about 15 feet on Saturday -- ABS was fully engaged and I was still sliding -- oh.. and this was in a parking lot! I felt the same way in the first snow of December last year and let it go as through the season I was OK with them. The question is... am I used to driving my MINI and just going too fast? Or do I really have all seasons that are not good in snow? The debate continues.

Just take the wheels off, put it on skis, and run off of Corgi power

[ImagoX]

The last snow we just had was REALLY slippery.... Even with my All-Weather tires on (not proper snow tires) I was all over the ASC, sliding all over the place. It didn't seem nearly as bad last year for some reason.

My ABS worked pretty well, but beware of down-hill slopes - if you start sliding going very slow, the tires can just lock (as if you're stopped) and you can drift down the slope in a full skid. If this happens, all you can do is resort to old-fashioned pumping. On my car, I jusr wheel-locked at about 5MPH, still more than fast enough to drift down the slope at the end of my street's drieway and all the way into as lane of traffic. Luckily, oncoming cars saw me and stopped....

[bjl]

I vote for snow tires on anything driving in snow, if you can afford to do it.

[Crashton]

I'd rather drive a 2wd car with proper snows than a awd without them.

Put snows on an awd car & laugh at winter.

I agree with Jason, if you are going to drive in snow get some snow tires.

As far as price goes, the ones on my MINI were cheaper than my insurance deductible.

Barbara's Forester XT has a set of Hakka's on it. Snow machine!!!

[JPMM]

Originally Posted by Crashton

I'd rather drive a 2wd car with proper snows than a awd without them.

Put snows on an awd car & laugh at winter.

I agree with Jason, if you are going to drive in snow get some snow tires.

As far as price goes, the ones on my MINI were cheaper than my insurance deductible.

Barbara's Forester XT has a set of Hakka's on it. Snow machine!!!

You got it

[Bilbo-Baggins]

I have to agree. Proper snow tires are the answer. FWD or AWD snows are the way to go, and turn and stop.

I love my Nokian Hakka 2's. They have fantastic grip in anything cold, wet, and slippery.

[bjl]

I agree with Jason too

[Scouser]

I fully agree with bjl and Crashton, snow tires rule add 4WD and you can laugh at winter.
We get tons of snow up here and in fact the province of Quebec has actually legislated the mandatory use of snow tires. Sometimes governments get it right.

A member of our local club maintains his snow tire equipped mini is a better all round winter performer than his Jeep CJ7

[Crashton]

Originally Posted by bjl

I agree with Jason too

Did you go & change your name to Ben again Jason?

Hakka 2's on my MINI too Bilbo. Man they do work.

[MINIdave]

I think it depends on where you live and how your winter is.

Here in KC we can have snow on the ground for months, or only days..........in the last 15 years our winters have been extremely mild. We had 2" of snow over ice yesterday - today it's all gone and the roads are dry again.

My point is I don't see the need to buy snow tires for 3 days of bad driving days a season, I'm just extra careful on those days, or if it's really bad I drive our AWD Audi, which does really well on all seasons.........

If I lived where we got lots of snow, or if I drove in the mountains at all, I would have snows - 4 of them, not just 2 - on my cars.......

[BF_]

Originally Posted by Crashton

Did you go & change your name to Ben again Jason?

Now I'm confused as to my name again.
Just got back from a few days of skiing in new york and thought this pic might be semi-relevant to the spirit of the thread.

[kimoz]

Does it REALLY snow down there?

OMG!

Come up here and visit the REAL snow. I put the snow tires on this year for the second time. They make my mini look fat. The mini does handle a tad better & way better then my Isuzu Amigo ever did. See u Soon.

[frankofthenorth]

I have some pretty awesome all-weather grippy tires, kind of a studded tire for year round - they're called Green Diamond Tires - so far I have barely worn to the grippy part, but as I have understood it, they will soon have the embedded silicon carbide bits exposed, and will continue through the life of the tire... its like having a little sandpaper in a siped tire to run year round with - not abusive to roads like studded tires, not slippery like all weather or all seasons that fill so easily with snow.. and I don't have to scramble every change of season to get a change of tire done. I don't know if it's right or just plain macho, but I want to run my MINI year-round! Go fellow SnowMini's!

[freez3]

Snow tires will make any car better in the snow.
Is that common sense or what??
Snow tires are engineered to perform better in the snow... I know that's common sense as well, but I'm not speaking about the tread pattern alone but the rubber compound too. Snow tires remain more pliable in the cold.
(I'm not sure pliable is the right word, but you know what I mean.

[geowit]

Originally Posted by freez3

Snow tires will make any car better in the snow.
Is that common sense or what??
Snow tires are engineered to perform better in the snow... I know that's common sense as well, but I'm not speaking about the tread pattern alone but the rubber compound too. Snow tires remain more pliable in the cold.
(I'm not sure pliable is the right word, but you know what I mean.

I totally agree. I use General Exclaim UHP's for my summer tire and when the temperatures start to drop below 40 F, I notice a tremendous difference. It's like driving on marbles because the rubber compound gets so hard. The UHP's really seem to like to be hot for the best performance, more noticeably than the Dunlops I had previous. They are referred to as WINTER tires now, not just snow tires. They are engineered to be driven in cold weather, not just snow. Oh, I use a set of Hankook Ice Bears for my winter setup.

[OldRick]

If you have 4wd and try to use it on ice or snow, you can wind up slowly sliding off the road sideways while all four wheels spin freely.

If you can only have one or the other, snow tires work better, but the hot setup is to use snow tires on your 4wd vehicle...

[remphoto]

We usually don't take the MC out in snow as we have an SUV and also a FWD company car, but there were a few times this winter when we did venture out. One trip was a white-knuckled drive to Cincy and back on the most icy roads I've seen in some time. We were really surprised how stable it was on the all-season tires. Of course, snow tires do best in heavier accumulation. We've debated replacing the SUV with a Clubman and winter snow tires, but I am concerned about ground clearance. In 8+ inches and drifting conditions, where the SUV really shines, I can see getting stuck snow tires or not. Any thoughts?

Rob McClure
2007 MC CR/B 6 speed

[Crashton]

Well if it means getting one more SUV off the road then I'm all for a new Clubman.

I had the same worries as you. Going from a Forester with a good amount of clearance to a MINI had me worried. I bought a set of nice skinny Hakka snow tires & haven't looked back. There were two occasions this winter where I had to break through drifts. It was a bit concerning but the MINI got us though. Momentum is your friend.

I think a Clubman with a proper set of snows will do well for you. Even in Upper. Snow tires work so much better than all seasons in all conditions, snow & ice. The only exception being dry pavement.

[remphoto]

I was trying to finagle a CRV as my replacement company car, then wouldn't have to worry about a winter ride. Unfortunately this fell through due to business sensitivities, so am getting a Malibu (yuk - but its free so beggars can't be choosers). Anyway, I might just get snow tires for the MINI and not replace the SUV. If I do, it will be with a CRV.

[cantseejack]

Sorry for reviving an old thread.

BF, I really dig your rack setup. How does that work? How does it affect your fuel mileage?

The best of all-seasons will never hold a candle to the cheapest of winter tires in the snow. Driving w/ snow tires in snow, slush, or icy conditions is a revelation. I say that if you live north of I-80, or by mountains, you should probably get a set.

[BF_]

Thanks. It is the snow link or something such... let me look it up.
Here you go. The base piece bolts to the frame under the rear bumper cover. You have to put a pair of holes in the black mesh-like part for a pair of tubes to pop through. Various "links" can then be mounted to the rear of the vehicle by these two protruding pieces. The snow link is a pair of your standard Thule style clamps that are attached to a powder coated bar. The whole system pops on or off in under a minute. Just the tips of the skis pop above the roof line. I'm not too sure how much they impact mileage, but I do remember coming back from New York that trip I averaged a bit over 43 mpg so I don't imagine there is too much drag involved. And I'm pretty sure there was a Honda painted like a trapper keeper following at one point quite jealous of the vertical spoiler mod I had.

P.S. I'll probably be at the thing this Wed.

[JRoca]

Last Winter my next door neighbor could not get in his garage with his all wheel drive Audi that had all season tires on it. I had no problem at all getting in mine with the snows. Both our driveways are up a steep incline.
4 Snows I think beats 4 wheel drive with all seasons anytime. As someone else noted, All wheel drive with 4 snows is the Ultimate.

[brightwhite]

Our other vehicle is a Mazda CX-9 with AWD (we have three kids under 5 and a 90lb black lab--plus we tow a trailer in the summer, so it gets used 'properly' ;) )

The first winter we had it (it was purchased in January) we made due with the high performance 245/45/20s on it. Damn near killed us a few times as AWD occasionally gives you a false sense of confidence. This past winter, I put snows on steelies. I'm not 100% on these snows as they are too wide to perform well on hardpack, but they are otherwise very good and the car drives very well.

I'm looking forward to how well the MCS does on the new 16" Federal snow and ice tires I just got for it. I generally enjoy a FWD with good snows. You can have a lot of fun.