JCW Stage I kit vs. Aftermarket CAI, Exhaust & ECU upgrades

[BobinPhilly]

I've been contemplating the purchase of a 2008 MCS with the JCW Stage I kit. Having now driven two 2007 MCS's with the JCW kit, I believe the driving performance was noticably better (than a stock 2007 MCS), and that it had enough power for me. I was, however, very disappointed with the sound of the new JCW kit's exhaust, i.e., it was not loud and rumbly enough for me.

Knowing that (1) the new JCW kit is pricey, (2) that there both are, and soon will be, more aftermarket upgrades available, but (3) aware that, with such upgrades, there is some risk to my new car warranty, I'm leaning toward getting my new MCS with the Stage I kit. If I do that, but still find I want to enhance my exhaust sound , what further aftermarket change (or changes) would most probably do that?

Thanks, in advance, for any suggestions you may have.

[junior1459]

Go aftermarket if thats the sound you like. A catback exhaust system can not possibly void your warranty, neither can an alta intake, per say.. If something happens, slap on your stock parts and voila.. warranty coverage.. I know it's not the most *faithful* thing to do, but really..who hasn't or won't try it?

[Yucca Patrol]

You would always be able to sell the JCW exhaust to someone if you ended up getting a more aggressive sounding aftermarket exhaust. Your warranty would be very much intact with the Stage 1 kit with a different exhaust.

[Mollymini]

I just bought a JCW Tuning kit and it was installed on my car this week...This Kit is Vin numbered to my car...Who would want to buy an exhaust system that has been vin numbered from another car?

[mikeg4572]

Originally Posted by Mollymini

I just bought a JCW Tuning kit and it was installed on my car this week...This Kit is Vin numbered to my car...Who would want to buy an exhaust system that has been vin numbered from another car?

Plenty of people would, they love JCW stuff. The exhaust would not know that it was previously on a different car.

[BobinPhilly]

Originally Posted by junior1459

Go aftermarket if thats the sound you like. A catback exhaust system can not possibly void your warranty, neither can an alta intake, per say.. If something happens, slap on your stock parts and voila.. warranty coverage.. I know it's not the most *faithful* thing to do, but really..who hasn't or won't try it?

Thanks for your input and encouragement. I've listened to the sounds of the Alta, Milltek, Borla and Magnaflow catbacks on You Tube. They all sound more "present," but the sound quality of those amateur videos is not good.

Any thoughts or actual listening experience you may have on which of those brands (or any other brands) might provide a more robust sound, both at idle and under acceleration, would be much appreciated.

[Yucca Patrol]

Your best bet would be to meet with other MINI owners and actually hear their exhaust sounds. No sound clip really captures what it feels like.

[KNTRKTOR]

The ALTA full turbo back system at idle growls like a beast. Especially when its cold and first cranked up.

At least on my MCS. It is light years removed from the stock exhaust sound. On the move, it definitely makes its presence known. No droning sound. Highly recommended.

The you tube videos definitely do not fully capture the throaty roar of this system.

[BobinPhilly]

Originally Posted by KNTRKTOR

The ALTA full turbo back system at idle growls like a beast. Especially when its cold and first cranked up.

At least on my MCS. It is light years removed from the stock exhaust sound. On the move, it definitely makes its presence known. No droning sound. Highly recommended.

The you tube videos definitely do not fully capture the throaty roar of this system.

What you've done with Alta's CAI and turboback, and will add to with Alta's PnP ECU, is the other alternative I was considering initially vs. the JCW Stage 1 kit. But the Alta combination is a bit riskier new-car-warranty-wise.

What's your view of the sound "improvement" I'd get with just the Alta catback vs. other brands' catbacks?

[MotorMouth]

Originally Posted by BobinPhilly

I was, however, very disappointed with the sound of the new JCW kit's exhaust, i.e., it was not loud and rumbly enough for me.

you could just do what this guy did. price is right!

http://www.northamericanmotoring.com...d.php?t=119607

[ADAMSALTAMINI]

The warranty concern is generally overstated. Airflow mods are NOT likely to EVER raise suspicion at the dealer. And they can't void the warranty anyway.

But our ECU is a plug n play. So it can generally be removed completely in less than 5 minutes with NO permanent marks.

Also, I have a local client that is EXTREMELY upset with the JCW kit and how little he gained. He had ridden in my car (pre-ECU but with airflow mods) before getting his kit installed and he was SURE the JCW would be the same or better. He is NOT happy. Dealer won't remove the kit and refund the money either. SO we are now removing the JCW pieces and adding the ALTA to get him the power he wants. He really feels he flushed $2500 down the can. Our entire "kit" with labor etc. is less than $4K and reliably produces more hp.

Keep in mind I LOVE the JCW parts (own a GP even) etc. But right now the aftermarket has some really nice items, no real risk and lots more gains. At least consider that when making your purchase decision.

If I can help in ANY way please just let me know!

Thanks again for considering ALTA!

[japper]

http://www.newminiscotland.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=153752&posted=1#post153752

It looks like the two runs highlight the difference between Overboost activated and not activated.

These charts match the claimed torque curve very well, with the power being up on claimed as we all know.

[Chris56S]

Originally Posted by ADAMSALTAMINI

The warranty concern is generally overstated. Airflow mods are NOT likely to EVER raise suspicion at the dealer. And they can't void the warranty anyway.

But our ECU is a plug n play. So it can generally be removed completely in less than 5 minutes with NO permanent marks.

Also, I have a local client that is EXTREMELY upset with the JCW kit and how little he gained. He had ridden in my car (pre-ECU but with airflow mods) before getting his kit installed and he was SURE the JCW would be the same or better. He is NOT happy. Dealer won't remove the kit and refund the money either. SO we are now removing the JCW pieces and adding the ALTA to get him the power he wants. He really feels he flushed $2500 down the can. Our entire "kit" with labor etc. is less than $4K and reliably produces more hp.

Keep in mind I LOVE the JCW parts (own a GP even) etc. But right now the aftermarket has some really nice items, no real risk and lots more gains. At least consider that when making your purchase decision.

If I can help in ANY way please just let me know!

Thanks again for considering ALTA!

Hi Adam,

Truth be told, I would prefer to invest in ALTA parts, but when I brought the topic of third-party add-ons (for even minor things such as a CAI), the dealer told me flat out that I would have issues getting warranty coverage if anything goes wrong. That was enough to scare me. So, as much as I want to go this route, I'm looking at the JCW to keep my warranty intact.

Having said that, I've only spoken with one dealership, and so I don't know if the answer would differ at other dealers, or if this is just a MINI policy. I read somewhere else on NAM that MINI has clamped down on third-party add-ons recently. Maybe someone here can clarify.

As I said, I'd much prefer to go the ALTA route.

[r56mini]

Alta piggy back.... does it leave any evidence?

[mikeg4572]

Originally Posted by Chris56S

Hi Adam,

Truth be told, I would prefer to invest in ALTA parts, but when I brought the topic of third-party add-ons (for even minor things such as a CAI), the dealer told me flat out that I would have issues getting warranty coverage if anything goes wrong. That was enough to scare me. So, as much as I want to go this route, I'm looking at the JCW to keep my warranty intact.

Having said that, I've only spoken with one dealership, and so I don't know if the answer would differ at other dealers, or if this is just a MINI policy. I read somewhere else on NAM that MINI has clamped down on third-party add-ons recently. Maybe someone here can clarify.

As I said, I'd much prefer to go the ALTA route.

Thats total BullSH#T. They are just trying to sell you JCW parts. Honestly how can an exhaust and an intake void a warrenty? I can see some other parts such as an ECU or head and cam. But you have to be smart about it if you are going that route. I would not drive into the service department with my UNI chip in place and complain about issues with the ECU.

[byhsu]

Originally Posted by ADAMSALTAMINI

The warranty concern is generally overstated. Airflow mods are NOT likely to EVER raise suspicion at the dealer. And they can't void the warranty anyway.

But our ECU is a plug n play. So it can generally be removed completely in less than 5 minutes with NO permanent marks.

Also, I have a local client that is EXTREMELY upset with the JCW kit and how little he gained. He had ridden in my car (pre-ECU but with airflow mods) before getting his kit installed and he was SURE the JCW would be the same or better. He is NOT happy. Dealer won't remove the kit and refund the money either. SO we are now removing the JCW pieces and adding the ALTA to get him the power he wants. He really feels he flushed $2500 down the can. Our entire "kit" with labor etc. is less than $4K and reliably produces more hp.

Keep in mind I LOVE the JCW parts (own a GP even) etc. But right now the aftermarket has some really nice items, no real risk and lots more gains. At least consider that when making your purchase decision.

If I can help in ANY way please just let me know!

Thanks again for considering ALTA!

So would I get more HP with the ALTA CAI, Boost tube and Cat-Back exhaust installed than with the JCW stage 1 Kit?

[chili_red07]

Originally Posted by r56mini

Alta piggy back.... does it leave any evidence?

Thats what I would like to know (and what would make or break it for me)

[scott48]

one word......Alta.

[mikeg4572]

Ok,

I understand peoples concerns with the warrenty. What do you guys think would be the worst that could happen? Fry the ECU? Premature clutch failure? Turbo failure? Run lean and burn a piston. All the above are risks that I am willing to take ,except the running lean scenario. I think ALTA has done allot of homework on their ECU. As far as simple bolt on parts, I cant see any Mini Tech being able to prove an exhaust and an intake caused a catastrophic failure nor could they not warrenty the whole car due to a aftermarket part. My point is that maybe I can see them not replacing a blown shock because I have lowered it with H&R springs but I cant see them denying a air conditioning compressor due to some ALTA boost tubes or somthing like that.

I look at these mods as a hobby not an investmet. Besides , any failure like clutch or turbo could be a good excuse for an upgrade. But honestly I dont see it happening. I was one of the first people to get a MINI and modify it and it has almost 20k miles on it TOTALLY trouble free and trust me I dont baby it. Now with the ALTA ECU its like falling in love with the car all over again.

Happy Motoring with what ever you decide!

[FugitiveAI]

Originally Posted by byhsu

So would I get more HP with the ALTA CAI, Boost tube and Cat-Back exhaust installed than with the JCW stage 1 Kit?

My guess is they are about the same on paper except a heck of a lot cheaper to get the ALTA parts and WAY cooler sounding, but get the soon to be released piggy-back ECU instead of the boost tube and you'll be running circles around the cars with the Stage 1 Kit and you save at least a few hundred dollars in the process

[byhsu]

Originally Posted by FugitiveAI

My guess is they are about the same on paper except a heck of a lot cheaper to get the ALTA parts and WAY cooler sounding, but get the soon to be released piggy-back ECU instead of the boost tube and you'll be running circles around the cars with the Stage 1 Kit and you save at least a few hundred dollars in the process

I see your car has the ALTA CAI and Cat-Back, how does that compare to the JCW Stage I?

I asked about the CAI, Boost Tube and Cat-back vs JCW stage I, because I will most likely put those Mods first. The ECU I will get it later.

Thanks

[r56mini]

Originally Posted by mikeg4572

Ok,

I understand peoples concerns with the warrenty. What do you guys think would be the worst that could happen? Fry the ECU? Premature clutch failure? Turbo failure? Run lean and burn a piston. All the above are risks that I am willing to take ,except the running lean scenario. I think ALTA has done allot of homework on their ECU. As far as simple bolt on parts, I cant see any Mini Tech being able to prove an exhaust and an intake caused a catastrophic failure nor could they not warrenty the whole car due to a aftermarket part. My point is that maybe I can see them not replacing a blown shock because I have lowered it with H&R springs but I cant see them denying a air conditioning compressor due to some ALTA boost tubes or somthing like that.

I look at these mods as a hobby not an investmet. Besides , any failure like clutch or turbo could be a good excuse for an upgrade. But honestly I dont see it happening. I was one of the first people to get a MINI and modify it and it has almost 20k miles on it TOTALLY trouble free and trust me I dont baby it. Now with the ALTA ECU its like falling in love with the car all over again.

Happy Motoring with what ever you decide!

My concern is largely based on that our MCS are the first model year cars and there is not enough data to know what could go wrong within the first three years without any mods. I understand your point of view and it seems you have a bigger budget for the car and the mods than I do.

[mikeg4572]

Originally Posted by r56mini

My concern is largely based on that our MCS are the first model year cars and there is not enough data to know what could go wrong within the first three years without any mods. I understand your point of view and it seems you have a bigger budget for the car and the mods than I do.

Not sure if its a bigger budget or a disease....lol. I figure I amat almost 20k miles now almost half way through the factory warrenty with out ANY problems at all.

P.S. I am not knocking anyone with warrenty concerns. I just think that personally the risk is worth the return for me.

[Chris56S]

Argh. I've got the modding bug quite badly, and you guys are not helping me in my decision-making process.

I've got specific questions about some of the ALTA parts. Adam, I may give you a shout directly to ask them. And then let the dice fall where they may.

[flaco]

Perhaps we should just approach this directly and not be deceptive.

If MINI wants to limit its warranty to just the products that it makes, then that's ok. The company makes a great car which we all enjoy and is entitled to set the terms of its warranty which is really just another part of the car you buy voluntarily and with eyes wide open.

On the other hand, just because you use a part not made by MINI should not automatically void the warranty, and the after-market vendor of the part should be willing to stand behind it and warrant that it won't damage your car or void the warranty. The consumer relies on the purported expertise of these vendors, and these vendors should bear the commensurate risk when they put their product on the market and hawk it as a safe and worthwhile improvement to the oem parts. If their product voids the warranty, then they should be responsible if something goes wrong, especially if they have publicly made representations in this regard as in this forum.

The consumer shouldn't be caught in the middle, but also has an obligation to be truthful and make an informed decision. If someone takes their MINI to the dealer and removes the suspect aftermarket part, then they shouldn't be rewarded at the cost of others who help pay for the warranties through the resulting increased cost of their cars. In any event, we shouldn't be supporting vendors who openly point out that their part can be easily removed to encourage such deceptive behavior. If there is a big dispute over a warranty issue, the dealer can easily determine if the individual used an aftermarket part that caused the problem by just looking at NAM in a lot of cases and then the consumer will really be in hot water.

So I guess it's a balance. Just take responsibility for what you do, whether you are MINI, an aftermarket vendor, or the consumer. In the long run, you'll come out ahead. And you'll sleep better too.