Maintenance :: Changing FRONT Brake Pads for Beginners! - Page 3

**OctaneGuy** · #51 08-04-2006, 03:22 PM

No, that's their anti squeal compound. It's one or the other. Definitely don't get it on the pad. Do what you must. I just placed the pads on a piece of cardboard and sprayed the backs and let them dry--for two coats--that's what was recommended to me by my neighbor.

Richard

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeBRG

Richard,

Thanks. Do you still use the plastic goo from bmw to coat the caliper saddle to hold the pads or does this blue spray replace all that and if so, should I mask off areas before I spray (I know I should'nt get it on the rotor side of the pads.) All this info is helping me alot.

thanks,
Jake

JakeBRG · #52 08-08-2006, 06:44 PM

Richard,

Thanks again. Just so I make sure I've got this:

1. Use the Permatex only on the back of the pads, 2 coats–let them dry in between coats

2. In this case use the bmw goo–not even on the saddle that holds the pads like you did in your write up, because this Permatex takes care of all of that...right?

thanks again!!

Jake

**OctaneGuy** · #53 08-08-2006, 07:21 PM

That's correct. Spray Permatex anywhere that I suggested to use the bmw antisqueal.

Richard

[QUOTE=JakeBRG]Richard,

Thanks again. Just so I make sure I've got this:

1. Use the Permatex only on the back of the pads, 2 coats

StillK · #54 08-11-2006, 07:50 AM

Hey Octane Guy

Thanks for the detailed write up - it was very timely as my brakes both front and rear need replacement shortly on my 2003 MC. When the dealership told me what it would cost

I decided to try to do it myself having done brake jobs years ago on my Ford Fiesta.

To my ? - what about the rotors - did you have them refaced or replace them? I was told since the rears are solid that they cannot be resurfaced but that the fronts possibly could be. Somewhere I read some horror story about the torx head screw hold the rotors. Since I live in salt country and have 47,000 miles on the originals I am sure they are corroded and with my luck will cause a major frustration. Any suggestions and or experiences. Thanks again

**OctaneGuy** · #55 08-11-2006, 08:24 AM

Thanks!

I have a very good source that told me to just replace the rotors after the 2nd or 3rd brake pad replacement. If you want to be certain, you need to measure the thickness of the wear and determine if it's within the minimum standards set by MINI. I don't have those measurements with me. A digital caliper from HF works very nicely here.

The OEM rotors are VERY cheap and they are considered wear items. I plan on upgrading them to better aftermarket rotors which will last longer than the OEM ones, though they do cost more. I'm at 64,000 miles and still with my OEM rotors and 2nd pad set.

Although I haven't yet replaced my rotors, I understand an impact wrench may be needed if you can't keep the rotors locked. I believe I read that over on Randy Webbs site awhile back.

Richard

Quote:

Originally Posted by StillK

Hey Octane Guy

Thanks for the detailed write up - it was very timely as my brakes both front and rear need replacement shortly on my 2003 MC. When the dealership told me what it would cost

I decided to try to do it myself having done brake jobs years ago on my Ford Fiesta.

To my ? - what about the rotors - did you have them refaced or replace them? I was told since the rears are solid that they cannot be resurfaced but that the fronts possibly could be. Somewhere I read some horror story about the torx head screw hold the rotors. Since I live in salt country and have 47,000 miles on the originals I am sure they are corroded and with my luck will cause a major frustration. Any suggestions and or experiences. Thanks again

JakeBRG · #56 08-11-2006, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OctaneGuy

Thanks!

I have a very good source that told me to just replace the rotors after the 2nd or 3rd brake pad replacement. If you want to be certain, you need to measure the thickness of the wear and determine if it's within the minimum standards set by MINI. I don't have those measurements with me. A digital caliper from HF works very nicely here.

The OEM rotors are VERY cheap and they are considered wear items. I plan on upgrading them to better aftermarket rotors which will last longer than the OEM ones, though they do cost more. I'm at 64,000 miles and still with my OEM rotors and 2nd pad set.

Although I haven't yet replaced my rotors, I understand an impact wrench may be needed if you can't keep the rotors locked. I believe I read that over on Randy Webbs site awhile back.

Richard

My 2003 mcs has 62,000 miles on it with the original pads/rotors and the rotors are "lipped" meaning that the pads have bedded into the rotors creating an "rim" on the outer edge of the rotor. The way my mechanic described them, it sounded like it was best to replace them. He also said that the reason why BMW's and other german cars like Audis stop so well is because they are generally made with "softer compound" rotors which help them stop quicker. This could be why the dealer recommends replacing the pads and rotors at the same time.

So I just ordered those rotors and pads from ecartoys.com and saved a bundle on shipping. Thanks again for the tip Richard!

I ordered the Brembos for about 50.00 bucks each. I went to the MINI parts store and the OEM rotors were 97.50 each! (twice as much) I have no idea if the Brembos are harder than the OEM's, but I guess they can't be any softer. The pads for the fronts were about a 100.00 bucks too. Even the parts guy who was new there said they seemed expensive.

Jake

ps Are those HF digital calipers expensive?

**OctaneGuy** · #57 08-11-2006, 07:55 PM

Mine are lipped too and that's why its recommended to replace them. Glad you got a good deal on the rotors. My HF caliper was less than $15 on sale. I think I have the 12inch model..I'm not near my caliper so I can't check.

Richard

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeBRG

My 2003 mcs has 62,000 miles on it with the original pads/rotors and the rotors are "lipped" meaning that the pads have bedded into the rotors creating an "rim" on the outer edge of the rotor. The way my mechanic described them, it sounded like it was best to replace them. He also said that the reason why BMW's and other german cars like Audis stop so well is because they are generally made with "softer compound" rotors which help them stop quicker. This could be why the dealer recommends replacing the pads and rotors at the same time.

So I just ordered those rotors and pads from ecartoys.com and saved a bundle on shipping. Thanks again for the tip Richard!

I ordered the Brembos for about 50.00 bucks each. I went to the MINI parts store and the OEM rotors were 97.50 each! (twice as much) I have no idea if the Brembos are harder than the OEM's, but I guess they can't be any softer. The pads for the fronts were about a 100.00 bucks too. Even the parts guy who was new there said they seemed expensive.

Jake

ps Are those HF digital calipers expensive?

JakeBRG · #58 08-22-2006, 07:27 PM

Bought the HF Caliper Tool Disc Brake Set– it was on sale for 19.99. So much better than C-clamps. Anybody that is afraid to tackle this job should take note–The Mini is a very well-made, logical car, even if was built in Oxford. I have changed brakes on my old Escort(really a reskinned Protege) and my wife's Saturn. I would say the Mini's are easier, just because the parts, the thoughtfullness and care that went into the design, makes working on it actually rewarding. On the Escort, I remember snapping the caliper retainer clips in two and having to borrow a friends car to go to NAPA to get new clips! (I have not tried to tackle the rears yet, so I hope that they are just as simple)

The breaker bar is a must-have, for loosening parts.

And for all those who want to change the rotors, have someone stand on the brakes and loosen the Torx nut before proceeding as Randy's Webbmotorsport brake write-up says.

One thing I did try was this stuff made by Permatex called Anti-sieze Lubricant (it's got a handly little brush on the cap so I just used it on the tabs on the pad carriers) Very little mess.
http://www.permatex.com/products/aut...ubricant_a.htm
Couldn't find the Permatex Blue Disc Brake Quiet so I used this other brand from Advance called CRC Disc Brake Quiet. It comes out red. I did two coats for prosterity-sake.

I was finished in about 3 hours and that included a run to Advance for a breaker bar. (but I did not have to replace my wear sensor)

The best part is no squeaks at all. I spent only a 127.00 on parts (2 Brembo Front rotors, and a front set of Mintex pads) I did have to buy a few extra sockets, but most of the stuff I already have, not to mention a neighbor with a good torque wrench who has experience with working on his brakes– a beautiful 88.5 aniversary Porshe 911 Carrera

He uses this site for his brake needs. They also have great finds on Mini/JCW parts. Check it out:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/euro/cat...BRKpad_pg1.htm

Jake

mitchman · #59 09-16-2006, 08:25 AM

Great write up!

One question.....what about lubeing the slider pins? On our Miata, this is very important. The caliper slides back and forth on the slider pins as you press/depress the brakes. If they aren't lubed, the calipers hang up.

Is there anything like this on the Mini? (I need to order a Bentley manual)

**OctaneGuy** · #60 09-16-2006, 10:15 AM

Thanks. I don't recall seeing this in the Bentley Manual. I'll have to take a look. Are these the pins that ride in the two rubber sleeves?? The same ones that are replaced with brass fittings for the "brake stiffener" mod???

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchman

Great write up!

One question.....what about lubeing the slider pins? On our Miata, this is very important. The caliper slides back and forth on the slider pins as you press/depress the brakes. If they aren't lubed, the calipers hang up.

Is there anything like this on the Mini? (I need to order a Bentley manual)

ProfessorDave · #61 09-18-2006, 02:32 PM

Octane Guy: This write-up was invaluable in changing my front pads and rotors. Much better than the directions in the Bentley Manual. Thanks! I will be tackling the rears this weekend, using your post as a guide.

One additional tip: In order to reset the pad sensor light (whether the new one is connected to the pad ot zip-tied up somewhere) you may have to put the key in position 2 for about 30 seconds. Resetting the tire pressure monitor does nothing apparently, but may work for the simple reason that they key is in position 2 long enough for the light to reset.

Thanks again for this great and very detailed DIY!

**OctaneGuy** · #62 09-18-2006, 03:18 PM

That's awesome! Thanks for the kind words.

I find my writeups are very good for helping me remember details that I have long forgotten. For instance, I'm going to have to remove a sway bar, struts, and Sport Link from my Cooper and reinstall it on my new MCS, and the writeups help me too!

Richard

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorDave

Octane Guy: This write-up was invaluable in changing my front pads and rotors. Much better than the directions in the Bentley Manual. Thanks! I will be tackling the rears this weekend, using your post as a guide.

One additional tip: In order to reset the pad sensor light (whether the new one is connected to the pad ot zip-tied up somewhere) you may have to put the key in position 2 for about 30 seconds. Resetting the tire pressure monitor does nothing apparently, but may work for the simple reason that they key is in position 2 long enough for the light to reset.

Thanks again for this great and very detailed DIY!

muppetmandan · #63 09-26-2006, 04:57 PM

OK i'm one of these people that are having problems with the sensor light. Got a new sensor from the dealership, changed the pads put the sensor in, and still that *!&%ing light is staring at me.

Tried all the tricks but still there, any ideas (other than getting another sensor, i'm sure this one is ok, as it was still wrapped at the dealer).

**OctaneGuy** · #64 09-26-2006, 05:05 PM

Did you change the right sensor??? You've got two. Front left or Right Rear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetmandan

OK i'm one of these people that are having problems with the sensor light. Got a new sensor from the dealership, changed the pads put the sensor in, and still that *!&%ing light is staring at me.

Tried all the tricks but still there, any ideas (other than getting another sensor, i'm sure this one is ok, as it was still wrapped at the dealer).

muppetmandan · #65 09-26-2006, 05:14 PM

lol, yeah i was doing the fronts. changed left front sensor.

**OctaneGuy** · #66 09-26-2006, 05:24 PM

I understand, but did you check the rear sensor for wear? When the sensor goes on, it doesn't tell you which sensor it is. Are you certain that only the front sensor needed replacing?

Once the new sensor is plugged in and the ignition is turned on, the warning light should go out.

Richard

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetmandan

lol, yeah i was doing the fronts. changed left front sensor.

muppetmandan · #67 09-26-2006, 05:47 PM

It's funny you should say that, after posting i realized what you meant. I was wondering the same thing myself about 10 mins ago. Looks like i have a project this saturday!!!

Thanks for your help.

**OctaneGuy** · #68 09-26-2006, 05:54 PM

LOL, seems we both were wondering what I posted. After I posted, I realized I should have said "Correct Sensor" and not "Right Sensor" to avoid confusion.

Yep, good luck!

Richard

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetmandan

It's funny you should say that, after posting i realized what you meant. I was wondering the same thing myself about 10 mins ago. Looks like i have a project this saturday!!!

Thanks for your help.

ProfessorDave · #69 09-26-2006, 07:56 PM

Muppetmandan, just leave the key on in position 2 for about 30 seconds and the light will go out.

fprintf · #70 11-13-2006, 10:17 AM

edit: I figured it out after a search. Torx T50 is the right size. And on the way home I bought an entire Torx socket set for $13 at Home Depot.

I am about to embark on changing my pads and rotors. It looks like, and I read here, that I will need a Torx head wrench to remove the front rotors. I don't think I have those in my toolbox, so what size is needed? Any idea if Home Depot or Sears carries those?

The last thing I want to do is get the wheels off, calipers off and go "oh sh*t"!

fprintf · #71 11-21-2006, 05:44 AM

Ok, I changed my brake pads and rotors according to the instructions here and webbmotorsports.com. It was an extremely easy job and I'd highly encourage anyone with all the minimum tools to attempt it. I am not an accomplished mechanic, but the thought of paying $490 to the Mini dealer for something that was $130 in parts from ecartoys.com was killing me. So with the first page of this thread saved to my laptop and open in a browser window in my garage I got started. The toughest part was removing the Torx using my impact "wrench", which is really a driver that turns when you hit it with a hammer. I was hitting it, taking it off the screw and resetting it, then hitting it again when all I needed to do was turn the thing with my wrist after each hit. Once I had that figured out it took no more than 15 minutes to remove both screws.

2 1/2 hours later the job was done. Having all the correct tools, including PB Blaster to penetrate the bolts for a few hours must have been key. Similar to Octane guy, the first side took a little while to make sure I was doing things correctly and then the next side took no more than 30 minutes. After removing the Torx the next toughest part was putting the retaining springs back in. Fortunately I had one side unassembled plus the pictures above to give me hints to how they are supposed to face. After finishing I took the car out to bed the brakes, going to 60 mph then down to 10 mph 5 or 6 times (probably not enough but I ran out of road and thought I saw cops around every turn), and then a 15 minute trip on the highway to cool everything down. During the 3rd or 4th braking the car pulled really hard to the left, but I kept going and assumed that was probably from one pad breaking in slightly differently, and the next few turns were fine. I have been driving the car for a few days now and it stops just like when it was new. I was really pleased that I did this job myself.

There was *plenty* of meat left on the pads, more than backing plate thickness on all of them. So for the dealer to tell me I had "no more than 1000 miles left" was a crock of crap. I had at least 10,000 miles left until the sensor wore out. Speaking of which, I broke the end of the sensor getting it out of the left inside brake pad. So I just zip-tied it back on itself knowing that it is unlikely that I will need to use it in the future. There were no little yellow lights on the dash so I am good to go for the next 40,000 miles or so. It is almost unconscionable that the dealer would charge more than $300 labor for a job that would take an experienced mechanic 1 hour (or 90 minutes given job difficulties).

Stuart
Cheshire, CT
2003 Mini Cooper S, 43,000 miles.

bkrock · #72 12-06-2006, 08:31 AM

Thank you Octaneguy for the input. Very, very helpful and insightful, thanks for taking the time.

Unfortunately, I did my rear brakes before reading your post. I got the OEM tool and did everything correctly I thought. But upon putting everything back together and driving, I have a horrible noise coming from the back passenger side. Almost like the caliper is not releasing after I get on the brakes. Then it will continue to be loud the whole way after that.

Do you have any suggestions? Do I have to blead the system down? If so, is it a simple thing??

Thanks again.

bkrock

**OctaneGuy** · #73 12-06-2006, 08:41 AM

You're welcome. That's very possible the pad isn't installed correctly. The rear pads have a wire clip on the back. There are 3 wires. All you have to do, is slide them over the piston. Make sure the piston is sticking out slightly , not compressed 100% into the rubber sleeve. Then you will see a lip. You can then just slide the pad down--making sure the wires slide down this lip or groove and now when you release the brakes, the pads will be pulled off the rotor along with the piston.

If you don't clip the pad to the piston, it will keep rubbing and wear down your pads. I went through a set of pads before I realized this.

Richard

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkrock

Thank you Octaneguy for the input. Very, very helpful and insightful, thanks for taking the time.

Unfortunately, I did my rear brakes before reading your post. I got the OEM tool and did everything correctly I thought. But upon putting everything back together and driving, I have a horrible noise coming from the back passenger side. Almost like the caliper is not releasing after I get on the brakes. Then it will continue to be loud the whole way after that.

Do you have any suggestions? Do I have to blead the system down? If so, is it a simple thing??

Thanks again.

bkrock

**OctaneGuy** · #74 12-06-2006, 08:43 AM

One more thing, although you replied to this thread, maybe you didn't see my writeup for the rear pads?????

http://www.northamericanmotoring.com...345#post550345

Actually this post details exactly what you should have done
http://www.northamericanmotoring.com...7&postcount=31

Here's a picture from the post

Richard

S Curvz · #75 12-06-2006, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkrock

Unfortunately, I did my rear brakes before reading your post. I got the OEM tool and did everything correctly I thought. But upon putting everything back together and driving, I have a horrible noise coming from the back passenger side. Almost like the caliper is not releasing after I get on the brakes. Then it will continue to be loud the whole way after that.

bkrock

I did the same thing, cliping the pads in took care of the problem