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  #1  
Old 07-18-2009, 12:32 PM
oldsbear oldsbear is offline
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Why 3000 rpm at 75 mph?

Both the MC and MCS operate comfortably at 2000 rpm. So, why can't the gearing be set to allow 75 mph at 2000 or 2500 rpm in sixth?

Wouldn't it save on drive train wear and boost fuel economy?

Is the gearing physically impossible? Or what?

Thanks for your thoughts.

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Old 07-18-2009, 01:49 PM
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It's probably a drivability issue more than anything else....and I doubt the additional RPM's make that much of a difference if you just change your synthetic oil as often at you can......

(Ever hit the gas in 5th gear when going 40 mPH w/o down shifting ? Ya just kinda sit there....)
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  #3  
Old 07-18-2009, 01:57 PM
someguyfromMaryland someguyfromMaryland is offline
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It's also a function of German design. Most BMW and MB drivetrains run higher rpm's at speed than US marques. This isn't a prob since they're built for it.My old '91 MB 300TE 4matic got ots best mileage on the road, 75 mph, 3000 rpm, loaded with 4 people and their luggage.
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Old 07-18-2009, 02:47 PM
Angib Angib is offline
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Originally Posted by oldsbear View Post
Is the gearing physically impossible?
Probably. The engine does indeed run fine at 2000 rpm - but it also has to produce enough power to drive the car along at 75mph, and at 2000 rpm I doubt it does.

Andrew
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Old 07-18-2009, 03:09 PM
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Robin Casady Robin Casady is offline
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Originally Posted by Angib View Post
Probably. The engine does indeed run fine at 2000 rpm - but it also has to produce enough power to drive the car along at 75mph, and at 2000 rpm I doubt it does.

Andrew
Yea, too much drag at 75 mph for 2000 rpm.
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  #6  
Old 07-18-2009, 05:34 PM
Milton Mini Milton Mini is offline
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Just went out to eat and ran my 09 Mini S Auto down the interstate. At indicated 75 it was turning 2500 RPM. The lower RPM at 70 is what stopped me from buying others like a Honda S2000 when I was looking to trade in the CVT 08 Mini I had.
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Old 07-18-2009, 06:17 PM
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One nice thing about the RPM's at 75 is that you have plenty of power left to pass even without downshifting.
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  #8  
Old 07-19-2009, 08:59 AM
oldsbear oldsbear is offline
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I'm unclear about all of this. The MCS has a huge range of full torque. I have driven an MCS in 6th gear without lugging at 40 mph and at 130 mph with pedal and rpm to spare. Would it really struggle to maintain 75 mph at 2000 rpm instead of 3000 rpm?
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Old 07-19-2009, 12:29 PM
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I'm guessing the problem is as much one of "which 6 gears would you like to have"? You can have a close ratio gearbox that keeps the engine in it's power band as you accelerate, or a wide ratio box that pulls stumps and idles down the freeway, but the only way to have both is to add more gears. Personally, I'd love to have a 7th gear in our '05 JCW so the rpm's dropped a bit at highway speeds and mileage improved, but I'm no losing sleep over it.

Alan
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Old 07-19-2009, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by oldsbear View Post
I'm unclear about all of this. The MCS has a huge range of full torque. I have driven an MCS in 6th gear without lugging at 40 mph and at 130 mph with pedal and rpm to spare. Would it really struggle to maintain 75 mph at 2000 rpm instead of 3000 rpm?
Torque is good for changing speed, but you need hp to overcome drag, and hp increases with rpm. I don't know how much hp is needed to push a MINI through the air at 75, but I don't find 2000 rpm gives me the driving characteristics I'm comfortable with unless going down hill. I like the way my MCS responds from 2,500 rpm at moderate speeds, and 3,000 rpm at higher speeds.
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  #11  
Old 07-19-2009, 04:11 PM
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Interesting observation......

In my '09 Clubman with the auto trans, it's running at 2500 at 70, compared to my '03 which is turning 3k at 70 (stick), seems like the auto box would have more trouble but it seems to pull that up hills with no effort.

My Audi allroad which has the twin turbo V-6 also runs right at 3K at 70, and I know it has more than enough poke to pull a taller gear. Must be a German thing............
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Old 07-19-2009, 04:11 PM
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The gearing is already quite high (ie revs low at high speed) compared to the average European small car with a small engine.

The gearing in the S is actually pretty well matched to the engine, top speed is reached when the engine is revving a little the other side of the torque peak, but before the torque really starts to fall off. That'll give you the highest max speed.

The MC is really quite over geared. Top speed is just past the torque peak in 5th, and 6th is just an over drive.

Americans with big lazy engines are just used to different ways of doing it. The MINI was rationally designed by Germans. Though I'b be quite happy if 6th were a little taller in the S, make it more of an overdrive cuising gear. Its a bit close to 5th, making 5th pretty redundant in most cases (unless you're driving at about 120mph+.)
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  #13  
Old 07-19-2009, 04:31 PM
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so Sixth gear is for illegal speeds basically?
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  #14  
Old 07-19-2009, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mattsenpai View Post
so Sixth gear is for illegal speeds basically?
Not if you're German.
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Old 07-19-2009, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_Pug View Post
I'm guessing the problem is as much one of "which 6 gears would you like to have"? You can have a close ratio gearbox that keeps the engine in it's power band as you accelerate, or a wide ratio box that pulls stumps and idles down the freeway, but the only way to have both is to add more gears. Personally, I'd love to have a 7th gear in our '05 JCW so the rpm's dropped a bit at highway speeds and mileage improved, but I'm no losing sleep over it.

Alan
My thoughts exactly. The present gearing is fine, just give me one more for lightly loaded highway cruising. If I had a 7th gear, it would be perfect.
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Old 07-19-2009, 06:18 PM
oldsbear oldsbear is offline
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Originally Posted by Btwyx View Post
... I'b be quite happy if 6th were a little taller in the S, make it more of an overdrive cuising gear....
That is certainly my view.

The way the sequence is set up, fifth is too close to sixth, and irrelevant. Generally, I go directly from 4th to 6th. I'd prefer to jump to a higher "overdrive" gear.
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Old 07-19-2009, 07:52 PM
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My justaclubman auto is pretty dead below 3000. I have a hilly headwind on the way home from work (280 nb in SF bay area) and I have to shift to 5th and sometime 4th to get it maintain speed. at 2 grand forgetboutit!

Over 3000 it moves out smartly but the 4 cylinder boom at 3800 is annoying.

also my 3000 is close to 81 mph on my car, giving it a 5% error that is still 77 not 75.

Also I am rarely below 70 on the freeway and it feels better at 85 in 6th than below 80.
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Old 07-19-2009, 08:29 PM
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Hi Oldsbear, they sure are geared low, you`re correct . This is done to help keep things on-the-boil. My old x-race Neon Supersport was geared to the moon, redline in top worked out to an impossible 180+MPH! And gave a peaceful 1800 rpm cruse at 60mph. This also meant that you didn`t need to shift nearly as often due to the resulting wide gear spacing. No it didn`t seem to have much low end pull. Your Mini pulls way better than such a small engine should, the low gearing helping it mimic a close ratio transmission.
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  #19  
Old 07-20-2009, 06:44 AM
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Since My MCS is the 2nd 6spd I have driven, my Spec V did the same thing. If they were to mess with the gearing to go 2k rpm at 75mph it would effect the overall acceleration of the car. Anyway you get your best gasmileage at around 60mph.
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:13 AM
oldsbear oldsbear is offline
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...Anyway you get your best gasmileage at around 60mph.
Actually, it gets better than that. Sixth gear at 45 mph gets me into the 50 mpg range.

However, the great fuel economy would come at the cost of road rage wrecks that would occur. There's also the issue of going to sleep at the wheel.
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Old 07-20-2009, 04:28 PM
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Some of you would obviously like one of the early VW five-speed gearboxes. They fitted what would now be normal close-ratio boxes to the higher performance models like the GTI, but the real economy versions had a wide-ratio box that was called 4+E and was actually marked 1,2,3,4,E on the ****. 4 was the same as in a four-speed box and then E was a really long cruising ratio above that. Maximum speed was definitely in fourth. Presumably folk didn't like it, because it was dropped pretty quickly. I drove a Polo (smaller than a Golf/Rabbit) with one and it was certainly annoying on a motorway that you had to change down from E to 4 for really quite shallow gradients.

Andrew
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Old 07-21-2009, 05:42 AM
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... it was certainly annoying on a motorway that you had to change down from E to 4 for really quite shallow gradients.

Andrew
The voice of experience explains it pretty well for me. Thanks.
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Old 07-21-2009, 12:59 PM
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Yes, but for a higher hp/weight ratio vehicle E could be very useful. Give me a 7th gear or an E gear or whatever......I would definitely use it and enjoy the lower fuel consumption and quieter running when it is appropriate to use it.
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Old 07-21-2009, 01:44 PM
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You want one of the mid-20th century overdrives that made every gear higher.
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Old 07-21-2009, 01:44 PM
 
 
 
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