Boom! Two big stories hitting the wire -

First, Bianchi is out of the coma and breathing on his own...

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/30120317

Second - Eddie Jordan of all people expressing frustration with Bernie and calling for him to step down...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/for...ie-Jordan.html

 

Well, even though we all knew it, it's now official: http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin.../11/16648.html

 

One wonders what the future holds for F1...


F1 to have new engine rules in 2016 - report

Dec.19 (GMM) F1 is now speeding towards yet another new set of engine regulations.

On Thursday at a Geneva meeting of the Strategy Group, Bernie Ecclestone proposed to scrap the current turbo V6 rules.

Michael Schmidt, of the respected German trade magazine Auto Motor und Sport, said that although his proposal did not produce a "definitive result", the sport is now headed towards an all-new set of regulations for 2016.

"The engines are to be louder, more powerful and cheaper," said Schmidt on Friday.

"The goal is 1000 horse power and a cost of 10 million euros per team. An expert group must deliver results (on the proposal) by the end of January," he added.

It is now too late, however, to make significant changes to the 2015 rules, which will be almost identical to the turbo V6 formula that saw Mercedes cruise dominantly to the title this year.


The sport is in such disarray.

 

Well apparently all teams are part of this strategy group, and rumors show that Red Bull and Ferrari strongly support this change. So with a majority vote it very well could happen. Can't say I blame them, with the extremely limited testing and so-called "engine freeze" throughout the year, it seems impossible for anyone to catch Mercedes.

I'm actually all for the change. Remove the expensive and complicated ERS, and remove the ridiculous 100L/Hour fuel flow limit. When you make a major change that results in a team breaking or tying win, 1-2 finish, and poll records then your new regulations have failed...

 

The trouble is - change the engine and go back to the V8s and odds are Honda will pull out... Renault threatened to pull out if these engines weren't adopted, so there's a risk that reverting back to the V8s would end up costing not one but two different manufacturers - how healthy would it be if just Mercedes and Ferrari would be left as manufacturers? And is Mercedes interested in restarting a V8 program?

Of course Ferrari would want the V8s back - there's some relation to their road car program... But for the remaining manufacturers who have more of a main stream market to think about - they're all looking at maximizing performance from smaller engines and improving hybrid technologies... They're not as interested in the V8 and larger engines anymore.

Then there's the money - yes, the V8s are cheaper engines, but how much money has already been poured into development of the current formula? The cost won't be recouped if there's another change in the formula after just two years... It's not just how much the engines themselves cost, but how much in development costs are manufacturers willing to eat?

And how do you encourage manufacturers to return to the sport when you can't settle on a formula for more than two years? Why would any manufacturer invest in a Formula 1 development program when there's no guarantee that the sport won't completely change direction after just a few years?

Even though 1 team ran away with the championship, the truth is, the racing this year was the best it's been in a long time. Given that the sport has tried out high deg tires, DRS, double points and other gimmicks to "improve the show" why not embrace natural benefits that the current formula has imparted on the racing?

And the costs of the engines wouldn't be as big of a deal if the prize founds and profits earned by the sport were distributed in a way that made sense... Small market sports teams still collect money off the broadcast rights and other marketing funds managed by their sport - so why can't Formula 1 do the same? MLB, the NFL, and even FIFA realize that the back marker teams in their sports have important value and the continuing health of those teams are important to the sport. FOM has yet to realize this...

 

I was wondering how it would affect Honda if they went back, but why did Renault want to change from the V8's? They were winning everything! And from what I read Renault does support the switch back to naturally-aspirated alond side Ferrari, so it seems it wouldn't be just Merc and Ferrari if they switched back...

 

Can't find the articles now, but I read several that stated that Renault was one of the big drivers to adopt the current formula, arguing that the previous formula wasn't road relevant. Threatened to leave the sport if the new engines weren't adopted...

That being said, from a quick search on the term "Renault threatens to leave F1" shows that every few years Renault threatens to leave - so maybe they shouldn't matter...

And still - Honda came back on these new engines. Ditching them will probably chase them off yet again, and make any other manufacturer think long and hard about coming to F1...

The reality is that Bernie doesn't like the new engines. He's fought their introduction since at least 2012 (probably longer, but that's when I started following the sport), and any opportunity he can find to call the teams and the FIA "bloody idiots" for adopting the current formula he will.

 

Well put mbabischkin. Which highlights the fact that having manufacturers involved has always been a problem with whatever series you look at. It's great to have manufacturers participating in a series but when they pull-out of said series then what are you left with? Corporations generally speaking are not in it for the love of the sport. They [the manufacturers] are there because it meets their development/marketing needs. Once those needs are met or the cost becomes prohibitive they bail leaving the series organizers to deal with depleted starting grids and fewer teams.

F1 has been shrewd to a point in managing to get manufacturers to participate but at what cost? Catering to different manufacturer's needs at the expense of others is a dangerous game. If you favor one over the other then the squabbling and threats of leaving the series begins. Additionally, as mbabischkin stated, "How healthy would it be if just Mercedes and Ferrari would be left as manufacturers?" Changing the rules of the game equates to money lost as far as the manufacturers are concerned. cause today's high tech gear becomes obsolete overnight with just a swipe of the pen and that means money having been spent with nothing to show for it, something that I am sure will be discussed amongst the board members and stockholders of companies like Mercedes, Renault, Ferrari, et. al.

When there is no stability in the rules, when rules are changed to benefit certain entities, when costs continue to escalate [due to money being spent for new development] then I can only see trouble on the horizon.

Does F1 need manufacturers? Reluctantly yes. If F1 is to remain the pinnacle of motorsports [both in technology and driver ability] then manufacturers are a necessary evil. I cannot imagine F1 without Ferrari but that is not to say that it could not survive sans the factory teams. F1 needs to retain privateers [e.g. Williams]. Those are the teams that will be there season after season given that the opportunity to survive financially is present. F1 survived during the Cosworth era and though there will be those that scoff at the thought of using customer engines [nee spec engines] the racing was exciting and competitive [not the domination of the season by one team as witnessed by Mercedes this year].

But I digress...

So who will pay the price for all the shenanigans going on here? Well certainly not Bernie or the private equity firm CVC or those powerhouse manufacturers. The true victims will be the teams, the fans, and ultimately the sport itself.

 

What goes around comes around they say and F1 just seems to be running around in circles attempting to come up with an acceptable engine package on which to build the future. So F1 is considering going retro, back to the days of the 'Turbo Era' ushered in by manufacturers like Renault.

If you miss those 1000 HP screamers then you will find this of great interest...


F1 to Discuss the Return of 1000 HP Powerplants

Thursday 8th January, 2015
Speedcafe.com


A move to re-introduce 1000 horsepower turbo charged cars to Formula 1 is set to be investigated further at the next F1 Strategy Group meeting.

The sport’s Power Unit Working Group discussed the idea of increasing the power delivered by F1 machines to 1000 horse power in Geneva this week, in a bid to make the cars more challenging to drive and more attractive to fans.

Increasing the fuel flow rates along with tweaks to the rules regarding the amount of fuel used during a race were put forward to achieve the 1000hp target.

According to a report by Autosport.com, the discussions between the Power Unit Working Group and the FIA were positive although any change to the regulations is unlikely to arrive until 2017.

The 2014 specification V6 engines attracted plenty of criticism from fans following their introduction last season.

The concept is now set to be discussed further at the next meeting of the F1 Strategy Group.

Meanwhile, Power Unit development remains a hot topic following the revelation of a loophole in the engine homologation rules.
McLaren-Honda has now made contact with the FIA to discuss the loophole which would allow Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault to develop their engines during the 2015 campaign, while Honda has been excluded from this ruling.

Instead McLaren’s new engine supplier will have to homologate its 2015 engine before February 28, the same date given to Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault last year.

This arrangement would eliminate any development on the unit throughout the season leaving it potentially lagging behind its rivals.

“Honda believes in fair competition for the goodness of the sport, and for our fans,” a Honda spokesperson said.

“McLaren-Honda have contacted the FIA in regards to this issue, but we cannot discuss any details at this time.”

 

Yes, that was my understanding as well. I would think every manufacturer except Ferrari would want the turbo V6's as that is technology that can trickle down more directly to road-going vehicles, since V8's for passenger cars (NOT counting trucks) are becoming extinct.

Great for marketing as well....show a pix of the F1 car and a passenger car that has a V6 turbo and spin, spin, spin the sales message. "The V6 turbo power in the Merc C-class is derived directly from the technology we win with on the track on a regular basis......"

you think those poor mopes that bought the "Eliminator" edition Monte Carlos weren't sold on the fact that NASCAR was running "Monte Carlos" on the track?

 

Yeah, saw the 1,000 HP story.... I seriously doubt it's going to happen. I just can't see any manufacturer actually being willing to dump the current engine formula given how much they've already invested in it... And again, changing the Formula after 3 or 4 years will just chase away manufacturers instead of attracting them to the sport.

Even if F1 was just populated by privateer teams - somebody has to build the engines for the series. If the series can't settle on an engine - again, how can you attract an engine manufacturer when you can stabilize the formula?

As for Honda - they're getting a raw deal. Every manufacturer should be competing on the same foot... There isn't any reason to restrict Honda to last year's engine freeze rules when every other manufacturer isn't going to be bound by that restriction.

Although some Honda's predicament development wise is Honda's own fault. Mercedes has 4 teams running their engines this year. That means that at testing they can run 4 different spec engines and crunch the data returned to tweak their engines. Ferrari and Renault both have 3 teams to work with... Honda - signed an exclusive deal with McLaren. They get 1 car to run and test with at each test...

And ZO6_Pilot - remember the old saying: "Win on Sunday means sales on Monday"

 

Yessir, that is a classic and so true...!

 

I seriously doubt a 1000 HP engine with any type of reliability.
Today's F1 motors need what 2-3 race each.
These cars really don't need that much HP anyway.
Don't forget they were doing this in the earlier 80's; dialing in 1200 for qualifying.
Motors were used just once back then.
That must have been a hell raising scary ride.
I'll never forget listening to the Ferrari boys revving the heck out of one of those motors in the pits for what seemed like an eternity.
Some say you will never forget the first time you hear a F1 engine on song.
I feel sorry for those whose 1st time was this last year.

 

FIA regulation as of 2014 says ">760"hp. So we'll see. Honda is back in the running and has an equal opportunity for engine development as any other entrant in the series from what I understand. Hopefully this season isn't a repeat of the last. We shall see.

 

So... who's starting the 2015 thread?