saw this on the wire this morning...

http://news.en.autos.sympatico.msn.c...mentid=5044282

 

too bad diesel mini's around here.

Turbo diesel mcs 6 speed with an increase in gear stepping for a lower rpm at 65mph would be hot to have

 

Actually you should be glad you don't have a miniD.
There a huge waste of money for the US consumer.
Youll find that they are slower in acc and top end.
noisy, dirty to work on, fuel is about 25 cents per gal more, have lower resale value, are more expensive to buy, maintain, and repair.
The only plus side is the added MPG. other then that there terrible in passenger cars, which is why there has never been a market here for the diesel pass car.
its only useful in trucks.

 

???

Actually, Diesel was generally the same price or slightly cheaper in Europe when I lived there (left in '04). And the new Cooper D (Turbo Diesel) replaced the One D in '07.

Truthfully, the Clubman D is the best. What you lose in acceleration and top end you gain in low-end and hill climbing torque, coupled with the 50+ mpg highway. And as a European Soccer-momobile, it is kicking the competition.

 

Also, the reason you can't bring them into the states is because of stupid, stupid US laws on carbon emissions. The more crap you can haul, the more crap your vehicle can spew into the environment. If you can carry five people (Clubman, Non-US) and luggage, but put next to nothing into the air, you can't come into the states.

But if you could, technically, carry six people (although you never see more than two people in huge SUVs) and could, possibly, carry a cord of lumber (if you didn't opt for the Cream leather interior and wall to wall carpet) then you can pump out up to 80 lbs of CO2 or more for every 100 miles you drive.

And also, even with 'big honkin' truck diesels nowadays, they are getting quieter. The video for the Clubman D makes it sound as quiet as the petrol version.

 

Drop by if you ever visit the UK and I'll show you how slow, noisy, dirty and terrible my car is!

 

Yes, 72 MPG is a downside, i'd much rather be getting 28. This isn't 1983 anymore. The MINI D is comparable in emissions to a Toyota Prius, and last I checked maintenance was free for 3 years? And they're not noisy, they're no louder than standard 4 cyl engines.

There's never been a market here because American's have no idea what they're talking about and blindly talk (Like you just did) about Diesel technology like it's some static field that hasn't gone anywhere in 30 years.

There's no reason why diesel can't be just as clean and just as powerful as normal engines, the reason they aren't is exactly why I said, because we're stubborn and would rather drive giant 6.3 liter gasoline engines that get 9 MPG than a 3.6 liter turbo diesel that makes within 10% of the HP and 25% more torque, and 26 MPG.

Oh and slow? The MINI D is faster than the MINI One, and pretty darn close to the regular cooper. Their goal wasn't to make it fast, there are plenty of fast diesels out there (Audi R8 Diesel?), their goal was to make it fuel efficient.

 

We've already established he's (muladesigns1) huffing the tail pipe on this one, but I think this said it best of all:

 

118d just won green car of the year .

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2008/03/21...year/#more-150

They must really love those smoggy Diesels over there .

 

Couldn't love Smog more than Americans, the EU standards have exceeded every state except California for almost eight years...

BTW, rumour on the grapevine is that the Cooper D and Clubman D may come to the states in 2012. That year the EU standards will surpass even Cali's strict emission standards, and the only thing preventing their coming in would be the 'Cargo' rule.

 

Sorry, but what is the 'cargo rule'?

I suspect much of the ignorance about modern diesels stems from lobbying to prevent an upgrade of US fuel to the minimum of 50 Cetane required in Europe because it mainly benefits the small, high-efficiency common-rail engines in European cars. And that would only be a start because I now only use a premium 55 Cetane diesel because the engine runs even quieter and more smoothly on that!

 

GM ruined the diesel market in the U.S. in the late '70s. Their horribly wrong diesel implementations resulted in often frightening disasters for the suckers who bought their inferior junk. The company bowed out of the diesel market with marketing BS stating the mishaps were because diesel technology was inherently flawed. Diesels had been running fine in Europe for years prior, but the non-reading American public, of course, bought GM's nonsense.

So even now in 'Murkuh, diesels are bad because someone said so on TV.

 

MINI D in the states? I'll be getting one of that happens.

 

I'd put money on it. (And I'm not a betting man.)

You'll know more about moves in the US to cut pollution by setting average mpg and other targets for each manufacturer than I do. So I'm pretty sure BMW must be making efforts to get their best performers - the One D, Cooper D and Clubman D - onto this market to offset their X5, X6 and such.

And there's speculation in Europe about a new BMW brand beneath MINI being planned too. (Think Smart!)

 

The basic gist is this. US Law has been written to favor the big behemoth on the road. As the Cargo capacity goes up, the level of smog emissions goes up, but exponentially. It was the reason that trucks could continue to spew crap at metric quantities and be OK, but the VW Lupo TDI couldn't see US shores (Lupo is sold as 'Rabbit' in the US).


The basic flaw in the equation was glossed over for decades until the last few years, as the EU standards (like sulfur free Diesel, only required in the US in the past year) on Carbon Emissions, as well as the limitations placed on Japanese Autos in Japan, caused US cars to gallop to extinction outside the US.

As an aside, this isn't limited to Diesel, but applies to regular Petrol as well. When I picked up my MCS in Italy, the dealer didn't know of any 'Premium Gas' restrictions that I saw on the MINIUSA website. When I went to Germany for Vacation (ah, Garmisch-Partenkirchen) they had 'US Equal' on the AAFES tanks. The 'Low Grade' 89 OCT was 'Equal 93 Oct US', and 'Hi Grade' 92 OCT was 'Equal 97.5 Oct US'.

The original press release from BMW/MINI for the launch of the Cooper D (turbo diesel, I was told it replaced the One D in '07) pretty much showed it exceeding most US standards, except California. MINI stated they were only going to bring in '50 State Cars', ie- Cars which could be sold in all 50 States. With the launch of the Cooper Clubman D, there was much hope that it would exceed the Cargo vs Carbon Law and be US bound, but alas, as of yet, it is not so.

 

You are describing 40 year old technology. BMW/MINI diesel engines are among the quiestest and cleanest engines in the world right now. The main reason they are not brought to the US is that we use a diesel/sulfur mix for our fuel, and most of it is for big trucks and boats. The European formula is much lower in sulfur, and our engines are not compatible. If the US starts distributing the low sulfur diesel, older engines would probably need to be retrofitted, not something the truckers and the shipping industry would like. Watch some of the british car shows, like Fifth Gear, where they test the new MINI diesel on the track against the MINI One. It does well. And don't blame oil companies for this, there is no demand for low sulfur diesel here yet, and with Truckers Unions, lobbyists and special interests, there probably won't be.

 

Thanks QandElf for your clear and helpful post!

(I'm learning a lot from this thread.)

 

I shouldn't short change all Americans, here. By Law, the US now requires 'Low Sulfur' Diesel (still higher than Diesel standards elsewhere). There are also many of us who recognize the importance of Diesel tech to balance out the fossil fuel demand. Believe me, if we could buy my wife the MINI Cooper D Clubman, we would in a heartbeat!

Here's some facts (you can cross reference this to sites like NationMaster.com and WTO:

The US is the second (or third, depending on Russia's production) largest oil producer in the world, exceeded only by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Yet the US consumes more fuel in a year than the next five countries combined! The US and Bahrain are the only two oil producing countries who do not export. Bahrain because they control production to maintain their needs, the US because we burn through it faster than we can produce it...

 

ACTUALLY, in refrence to your resale quote, obviously there is no basis for comparison for the mini d. But vw diesel cars have excellent resale due to the very high mpg.

Also the 25 extra cents can be deducted from the drastic increase in mpg

 

In the last 8 years my wife an I have owned 3 VW diesels and they have been efficient, clean, quiet (except for the first couple of minutes when cold), easier to maintain (diesel engines have less moving parts), and had exceptional resale value.

The first one we had was a '00 New Beetle that my wife loved. We bought it on lease to see if my wife would actually like the car. When the lease was up she was heartbroken to get rid of it but figured a newer one was better anyway and we got that. The only reason she got rid of that is our daughter who came along. If I could do it again I would never have got rid of that car. I had a VW Jetta diesel that was a great car for 3 years until another driver ran a red light and t-boned it.

The only reason I never got another one is I wanted a MINI since they first came out and have no regrets. The Beetles were both manual and after 10k miles were getting around the 40's around town and the last trip from S. Florida to Phillidelphia got around 65 mph doing 75 on the highway. The Jetta was auto and got in the high 30's in town and 50's on the highway.

The diesel rap in the country is more due to special interest groups and the like. Yes, the older vehicles would have to be converted to use the newer fuels since it seems too hard to sell it until those vehicles slowly phase out. Remember too that europe buys our unused diesel fuel and I am sure there is a profit there that helps keep the push to slow down adoptability here.

The biggest joke about diesel in this country is the price being more than premium. If you know anything about how fuels are made diesel is not as refined as gasoline so it is easier to make. It actually take more work o make gas. Right now it is treated as a boutique fuel which I am uncertain if that can ever be changed.

Due to the nature of a diesel engine making more torque at lower RPMs. It is actually a better candidate for hybrid vehicles than gas engines since it would actually compliment an electric motor better.

When my wife's current lease is up she's getting another New Beetle Diesel.

 

I'm just glad to see MINI getting kudos for some great real-world efficiency and emissions achievements. Such things should always be part (somewhere) of the Mini/MINI equation.

 

Great reply, im over people just assuming diesel sucks. Also it is crazy that diesel is more since it is so much less refined. The vw diesel comes back in 09 get ready

 

If MINI brought the D to the US I would at least have my wife check it out. The thing is, while she likes my MINI just fine she really loved her Beetle.

I can understand having an attachment to what you drive so I can see why she would like another one. In yellow, of course

I do get a little annoyed at the premium, especially european makers, charge for a diesel option. I can understand a little but usually it is a couple of thousand more. The think is since diesel is the dominant type of vehicle sold over in europe it should help subsidize the cost and keep the price down a little.

VW learned this over 10 years ago. They were charging a hefty premium and were not selling many. They lowered the cost of the option to around $1500 and start selling fairly well.

 

Well i would say the additional premium charged for the deisel option is just this, turning a profit. If people will pay it why not charge it, if sales decrease then drop the price, if not keep em up.

 

[quote=mcs22004;2117356]GM ruined the diesel market in the U.S. in the late '70s. Their horribly wrong diesel implementations resulted in often frightening disasters for the suckers who bought their inferior junk. The company bowed out of the diesel market with marketing BS stating the mishaps were because diesel technology was inherently flawed. Diesels had been running fine in Europe for years prior, but the non-reading American public, of course, bought GM's nonsense.

Actually the design wasn't terrible, the marketing was. It was sold as a motor that need no maintenance since it is a diesel. Of course they failed.