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OK, I'm just a Mini newbie but I was looking at this also.
From what I can see, one problem with just a bigger intercooler is that there isn't proper air-flow through the current cooler (the inlet is too small and the air really doesn't have any place to go).
Using a Air-to-water should therefor be better if you can get the heat exchanger into a good airflow (in front of the radiator). The down side to the air-to-water would I think be saturation in low air flow situations like sitting in the queue at the run-what-you-brung drag races. But I don't think you bought the Mini to drag it so I'm thinking air-to-water
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--Sean aka rough68fish
'08 Audi A3 3.2Q
'03 MCS EBW - gone, but never forgotten :(
Ultimately, which offers the best bang for the buck?
On the MINI, the air/air wins since all the water cooled i/c's seem to be priced above $2000.
GRS, GTT, and Alta (I think) have quoted performance gains with their units, so you can look at their websites for their claims. I believe NAM member RECOOP has a front mounted water/air unit on his ride, so you might pm him for his take on all of this as well.
My personal view is that the air/air upgrades available are the best from a $$ perspective, and I would lean in that direction unless you want to spend considerably more $$ for the water/air unit, and are willing to make a drastic change in the layout of your car. That's just my personal view, others will undoubtedly decide the water/air unit is best for them.
On the MINI, the air/air wins since all the water cooled i/c's seem to be priced above $2000.
I'm not sure I agree. Webb Motorsports sells the Alta air-to-air for $840 and their own water-to-air intercooler for $1050. To me $200 more, when we're already talking that much money, doesn't make it miles ahead on it's cost alone IMHO. I was hoping we could talk more about the technical pros and cons of each unit.
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I'm not sure I agree. Webb Motorsports sells the Alta air-to-air for $840 and their own water-to-air intercooler for $1050. To me $200 more, when we're already talking that much money, doesn't make it miles ahead on it's cost alone IMHO. I was hoping we could talk more about the technical pros and cons of each unit.
I think Randy sells his for $2350... Other alternative includes Mini Madness which is about $1399..Another one out there is the ULTRIK one... Dont remember the cost of it, but it is less than 2K...
The biggest con I see is the fact that it's way harder to install , since there are more stuff to add on (radiator, water/coolant pumpt, etc) plus more stuff that can break down.. I have the MM one, and did a dyno run with it.. I was stock except for an Alta exhaust... My OEM intercooler did about 151 whp but as I got to my third run, heat soak has become a problem as you can see from a dip in the whp, until the dyno operators added ice water to the intercooler.. The dyno of course had a big fan in the front, so it's not really imitating real world , air being forced to the intercooler... So I don't know how the bigger intercoolers out there would have resulted from this heat soak issue..
With my a/w , my best run was 156 whp, but as consecutive dyno runs were done, power never dipped or lowered.. so to me, I don't see "heat soak" as a problem.. Only problem with a/w is let's say I turn off my motor for 10 minutes. Then the coolant/water inside my intercooler will start soaking the heat in the motor and of course it will take a while before this heated water will start achieving the ideal temp again...
same idea as the engine coolant radiator fan. If the car is not in motion, there is no airflow through the radiator, so when the water gets hot enough the electric fan comes on.
this would require room for the fans and some part sourcing
///ACS330Ci, my bad on the prices. I was not aware of Webb's offering at the $1050 price point. That is an interesting piece of hardware! I think choosing that one still comes back to my point about the tradeoff between essentially a plug and play unit versus the added parts and complexity of the water/air units (even the $1050 unit, as Randy noted in his description). It's a personal choice.
///ACS330Ci, my bad on the prices. I was not aware of Webb's offering at the $1050 price point. That is an interesting piece of hardware! I think choosing that one still comes back to my point about the tradeoff between essentially a plug and play unit versus the added parts and complexity of the water/air units (even the $1050 unit, as Randy noted in his description). It's a personal choice.
Yeah, there really isn't any concrete argument for either that I have been able to find ... which is why I started this thread.
Initially I thought water-to-air was the way to go, but now I'm starting to think air-to-air would be the best option for me.
I wish Randy would jump in on this thread and spread more wisdom :smile:
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Checkout Project HyperWorksMCS here
View my other automotive project here
I've been watching threads and studying the aftermarket IC issues for more than a year. I've still got the stock IC although I do have an M7 scoop. Bottom line is that I'm not convinced that any of these IC's provide enough bang for the buck to justify the cost. We each have our limit of value. I'm not saying there isn't improved performance. But how much at what cost? For me, almost $100 per HP is too much. But other will disagree and that's what keeps sales of aftermarket IC's going. If you've got the $$ and find the increase worthwhile, go for it. You'll be a split second quicker than the rest of us and that ain't a bad thing :smile:
