Hi Guys,

I have an 04 R53 S 6 spd..

It's got K&N Intake and Magnaflow Exhaust.

What's the diff in HP gain (approx of course) between WMW 15% Pulley Kit with colder plugs if I just leave the ECU stock VS. get it tuned?

Sorry if it's been answered before but I couldn't find anything.

TIA
Mat

 

not a whole lot, but it would feel different. better throttle response, better DSC characteristics. better MPG. no dip in torque at 2600-3000 rpm. you may see like an extra 10hp or so

 

Is there anything in particular I should check before doing the 15%, like supercharger oil or something? Sorry I don't know that much about these cars. Also will a well experienced mechanic know how to do this or are there special instructions for the mini as I don't believe he's worked on a mini engine before. Lastly will I notice a big diff between 15 and 19 and is the wear diff really that big between the 2? I know this has been asked before, I saw on this site that 19% were causing SC failures while 15% never did. Honestly had a hard time believing it because the diff is so small but verification would help before I order the wrong size for my application. I daily drive, to work, I don't really putt around, I'm on it quite often..I put about 20 miles on her a day. If 19 is going to be risky I'll stay away. Thanks for your help!! Also, is WMW the way to go?

 

well easiest way of putting it. both have their advantages. 15% produces less heat and is a well proven way of getting power. track proven as well.


the 19% if fine on most applications except for the track, it creates too much heat for the IC to handle creating actual less horse power. another big thing is that the 19% tend to spin faster which makes the waterpump spin 19% faster. which can create cavitation in the water. which makes the PTO wear out since its extra stress.


the 17% is also another proven pulley. and theres even 16% from some vendors for people who don't trust the 17. not many people have had issues with the 17. but if you race the car, which im sure you don't. a 15-17 will be fine. 19% will be fine but keep an eye on the PTO shaft, or get an electrical waterpump, and delete the mechanical one we have.


and when I mean track, your at 5k rpm for 5-10min at a time. which most daily driving is not. then theres also IC upgrades or water meth to help that as well.


WMW is a very trusted source for parts and service. top notch. if you call them they are also very willing to talk to you.


only way to check the SC oil is to pull the SC off, which is not necessary to install the pulley. when you put the pulley on, regardless of which one you get, your gunna want a proper sized belt and a step colder spark plugs. which WMW has a package for. while you can pull the SC off, its a bit more work, and some people say the oil is good until it dries or leaks. while some people religiously change it. seems to have no evidence where one is better than the other.

 

Thanks for the helpful info! I will probably go 17 for what I'm going to be using my car for..I'll get the kit from WMW. Is there any telltale sign that my SC is dry on oil? I don't want to remove it if I don't need to and my car only has 40k on it so I'm hoping it's ok...

 

it will make a terrible rattle noise

 

but sadly at that point it might already be ruined... and I bet 90% of the people that have a "good" tune on their "S" car are getting quite abit more then 10 HP out of it. I got 8 with my Justa so an "S" car should get more then double that..Probably closer to 20 and have seen cars get 30 Hp from the tune alone. Granted it must have been what they call a "Friday" build from the factory that just wasn't up to snuff to start with... What the standard 15% pulley, CAI, and some kind of catback and a tune you should be at 200 wheel HP, which doesn't sound like much from a car that is rated at 171 from the factory but you don't have that 171 at the wheels.. but also keep in mind the Tune is not just to gain peak HP and TQ it will help a lot within the curve of it all. I actually had places in the RPM range that I gained 15 ft/lbs so it was well worth the price for the Tune to me...

 

One thing to consider is if there is a good reputable tuner in your area that can dyno tune. If not, you are going to have to buy a flash tool from someone like Jan at RMW ($300), then buy his "tune" ($350), then take your car to a local chassis dyno shop and pay for an hour or two of dyno time ($100-300)........that's a lot of money ($800+) for a little HP on a daily driver.

If it was me, I would just do a 15% or 17% pulley.....and see how you like. Take that $800 you save and spend it on some suspensions and brake goodies. Wait on a tune until you do more mods.....

 

I just put the 17% pulley on from WMW and love it. Power feels more linear. I had the 11% JCW pulley so I did not notice as much difference as you will if you have an S.

 

Depending on where the OP is at, if they were close enough to the Dragon this weekend he could get it all installed and tuned without having to buy the Flash Tool.. Granted it would be a "canned" tune but most good tuners have done so many of them on cars with basic mods it wouldn't be a problem.. Take out the Flash Tool price $300 and the Dyno price $100 and it doesn't sound so bad... Tune for $350

 

I did the same thing. Went from the jcw pulley to the 17%. Not a super huge improvement but you could definitely feel the power come on at lower rpms. I went from around 12psi boost with the jcw pulley/cylinder head to 15psi with the 17% pulley.

 

I have a 19% with 120,000 miles no problems and love it. Everyone is an expert on these but few if any have one. What no one tells you is it moves your power band down a little more. Great for street driving to have a little more grunt sooner. In traffic you need to shift less as a result. Heat built up on a track, but no the street, no way. How much time do you really spend over 6500 rpm? Seconds. I have ran the 19 for 13 years and love it. I also did a lot of track work in the early years with no problems. You chose. Motor on.

 

If you asked Eaton, they'd tell you that we're over-spinning this blower like crazy; and they're right. In another post I supplied Eaton's very own efficiency maps for the M45 blower, and guys, we're overworking the supercharger like mad by using such a significant crank-to-blower pulley size ratio. There comes a point where the thermal and volumetric efficiency of a positive displacement blower is exceeded. I can tell you that even at 19%, 17%, and likely even 15%, it's out of it's efficiency range.

To the guy posting above; Congratulations- you've only proved the durability of the Eaton unit, not your knowledge of it's limitations. This is just like APR boosting K03 turbos to 22 PSI for their Stage 2 tunes; sure you can do it, but it's not made to perform in that range, and puts undue stress on the related parts.

Vendors sell these parts & tunes because they know the average consumer wants "MOAR POWER" without actually knowing what they're doing. Being available and being correct are not mutually inclusive.


To get back on target, a tune is one of the best mods you can do. It helps drivability, in many cases increases MPG, and makes more power & TQ. The stock tune on any forced induction car is generally very safe (rich) with conservative timing to match. Simply tweaking those is enough to add 15whp on an otherwise 100% stock car.

 

well according to the efficiency map, that the stock pulley is not in the ideal range either, but yet even for the JCW they reduced the pulley size. cant always be in the optimum area. especially since it would have been harder to get a larger charging unit. if you can combat the heat it still works. you can also push a k03 to 35 psi as long as you can combat the heat. there are ideal conditions and theres adapting to the conditions given to you. unfortunately its usually always adapting. for what ever reason mini went with the m45. and reliably they will spin the 19% reduc, even a 23% reduc (kavs has one). its the intercooler that will fail before the SC does. and before that the water pump will.


ive seen plenty of cars running the 19% the thing that fails with them is usually water pump related. water can only move so fast along an impeller. this then puts that stress on the PTO gears. which wears out. The Eaton unit is still fine. the PTO is not

 

No offense, but I think we're still missing the point.

What people do is very different from the limitations of the equipment itself, and it's intended use.

Coolant circulation / fluid cavitation due to excessive impeller speed is very real, and likely happens far sooner than we think. When? I don't know exactly, but I'm not a gambler. If you had intake air temp, coolant temp, and oil temp gauges you'd be in a decent position to start investigating. Also, once you've moved on to a different water pump system, there's no value in even using the M45. The marriage of the two is what keeps many from upgrading to different blowers or turbo kits.

There are mechanical limits to things, and it seems pretty popular here to ignore those limitations simply because "so and so does it". What's most interesting is so many are happy to speculate rather than investigate. Calculate how fast you're spinning this blower in RPM's at each given crank-to-blower pulley ratio, then contact Eaton engineers and have a chat. I think they'd strongly discourage what we treat as common practice.

I've never seen Kavs' 23% pulley. From what I have seen, he sells up to 17% pullies. Then again, what Kavs does means nothing to me, because he's not likely a physicist; he's a racecar driver and parts vendor...

I'm in partial agreement that with a ton of water injection PRE-blower, you can somewhat over-spin the M45 in decent conscience. Regarding boosting a K03 to 35psi...no. There's such thing as a choke line, and it's not dependent on air temp. It's dependent on compressor AR and flow in CFM. Garrett has a great Tech section if you're ever feeling adventurous.

 

Interesting in your words.

Just to let you know I've made about 30.000 kilometers of testing on a race track and this is for sure most of the testing one people do in MINI comunity.

BTW I am monitoring 3 IATs and much much more all the time at this testing.

About other - I am not vendor here and I will not talk. But just let you know I am running one of the fastest MINI outthere made in my garage.

What do you have to show?