Drivetrain r53 Tuning Options
#1
11-09-2013, 09:24 PM
r53 Tuning Options
First off I would like to thank everyone here for your time. The information available here at NAM is truly invaluable.
I am currently exploring my options regarding engine tuning. From what I have concluded, there are several tuning options available, and choosing is dependent on many variables.
Over the past few weeks of researching my different options, I started to feel overwhelmed and slightly confused by the options available.
At first, I was under the impression that the Unichip was a good option. Thankfully, I was informed that it is not, and also why it is not a good option.
-BlwnAway
Here's some of the other tuning options available.
I have noticed that many MCS owners have been satisfied with a JCW flash. This tunes your ECU to the JCW specs.
WMW offers the flash for $300 although I have read that some people have paid as low as $50 at their local dealership. (although getting them do to the flash may be another issue!)
Way Motor Works will also flash your ECU given that you are willing to send in your ECU and have them load their own maps on it. Overall it does not promise significant power gains but rather improved throttle response, as well as smoother acceleration/idle, and raising the rev limiter. WMW calls it their "quick tune" but does allow versatility given that you tell them what mods you have.
As far as the plug-n-go tunes, I have noticed that the most commonly used systems are the RMW Flash tool, Bytetronik FullAcess Tuning Kit, and the WMW Remote Tuning Module.
Revolution Motor Works seems to be highly acclaimed here on NAM and seems to be the most used tune, from what i have read. They do not offer much information on their website but I do know that they are a trusted source for MCS tuning. The unit is sold as a plug-n-go system that flashes the ECU with a tune from RMW. Feel free to add any information regarding the RMW flash tool.
Way Motor Works has a Remote Tuning Module available for sale that connects to the ECU via the OBDii port. This system requires that you plug in, download your stock ECU file, send it to WMW, they tweak it, send it back, then you load it into your ECU. Although the tune must be purchased separately from WMW. So essentially you are paying for the access port, not the tune. (correct me if I'm wrong)
The next option allows for more versatility by the user and the tuner. The Bytetronik FullAccess FA53 tuning kit does what it says in the name. Full access tuning. This is a complete program for you or an experienced tuner to do the tuning. It connects to your ECU via OBDii and gives you access to files for timing, throttle, fuel, RPM, etc.
You can make adjustments to your own specifications as well as data logging.
The last system i will discuss is the VIi-PEC i88. It replaces your stock ECU. It is the most advanced system of the ones i listed and is also the most expensive. Allows control of injectors, ignition, variable camshaft position, as well as many other features.
There is a great discussion on the Bytetronik and Vi-PEC systems found here
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-vs-vipec.html
-BlwnAway
From what i have learned, your tuning decision is dependent on your driving habits (daily driver vs track), your modifications, your budget, and your willingness/ability to do your own tuning.
I have also learned that the same tune may yield different results to almost identical cars. Some people have great luck with a specific tune while others may have bad luck.
-BlwnAway
While this thread does discuss many tuning options available over the internet, it does not go into detail with the options available from your local Mini tuner.
So, I am asking for your opinions, testimonials, and recommendations regarding tuning. I am NOT asking which system is better. I would find it more valuable to hear what systems have worked for you and with what modifications. Feel free to share any dyno-charts
Also if you have any tuning recommendations for MY mini (mods listed in signature)
Feel free to add any information on tuning systems not listed here, as I only tackled a few.
PLEASE correct me if i am wrong anywhere in my thread as i am rather new to engine tuning. I am willing to edit this post given your information is valid/beneficial.
Thank you again NAM.
-JASON
I am currently exploring my options regarding engine tuning. From what I have concluded, there are several tuning options available, and choosing is dependent on many variables.
Over the past few weeks of researching my different options, I started to feel overwhelmed and slightly confused by the options available.
At first, I was under the impression that the Unichip was a good option. Thankfully, I was informed that it is not, and also why it is not a good option.
Uni-chip & all other piggyback systems are actually not a good option, they were basiclly popular early on when remote tuning options were far more limited than they are now, some of them worked, some didn't and even of the ones that worked, they worked on some cars and not on others. Plus the gains were marginal at best compared to the other tuning solutions, most who tried them & changed, have never went back. Best to actually disregard them entirely.
Piggyback, basiclly any tuninig module that plugs in with an "adjusting" file but does not change the actual settings of the ECU, the changes are basiclly something that are done, for lack of a better analagy, after the fact.
Unlike a flash tool like RMW, Way & others use that actually loads a completely new tune file into the ECU itself.
Piggyback, basiclly any tuninig module that plugs in with an "adjusting" file but does not change the actual settings of the ECU, the changes are basiclly something that are done, for lack of a better analagy, after the fact.
Unlike a flash tool like RMW, Way & others use that actually loads a completely new tune file into the ECU itself.
Here's some of the other tuning options available.
I have noticed that many MCS owners have been satisfied with a JCW flash. This tunes your ECU to the JCW specs.
WMW offers the flash for $300 although I have read that some people have paid as low as $50 at their local dealership. (although getting them do to the flash may be another issue!)
Way Motor Works will also flash your ECU given that you are willing to send in your ECU and have them load their own maps on it. Overall it does not promise significant power gains but rather improved throttle response, as well as smoother acceleration/idle, and raising the rev limiter. WMW calls it their "quick tune" but does allow versatility given that you tell them what mods you have.
As far as the plug-n-go tunes, I have noticed that the most commonly used systems are the RMW Flash tool, Bytetronik FullAcess Tuning Kit, and the WMW Remote Tuning Module.
Revolution Motor Works seems to be highly acclaimed here on NAM and seems to be the most used tune, from what i have read. They do not offer much information on their website but I do know that they are a trusted source for MCS tuning. The unit is sold as a plug-n-go system that flashes the ECU with a tune from RMW. Feel free to add any information regarding the RMW flash tool.
Way Motor Works has a Remote Tuning Module available for sale that connects to the ECU via the OBDii port. This system requires that you plug in, download your stock ECU file, send it to WMW, they tweak it, send it back, then you load it into your ECU. Although the tune must be purchased separately from WMW. So essentially you are paying for the access port, not the tune. (correct me if I'm wrong)
The next option allows for more versatility by the user and the tuner. The Bytetronik FullAccess FA53 tuning kit does what it says in the name. Full access tuning. This is a complete program for you or an experienced tuner to do the tuning. It connects to your ECU via OBDii and gives you access to files for timing, throttle, fuel, RPM, etc.
You can make adjustments to your own specifications as well as data logging.
The last system i will discuss is the VIi-PEC i88. It replaces your stock ECU. It is the most advanced system of the ones i listed and is also the most expensive. Allows control of injectors, ignition, variable camshaft position, as well as many other features.
There is a great discussion on the Bytetronik and Vi-PEC systems found here
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-vs-vipec.html
As far as Bytetronik & Vipec, I was affraid the message would get lost in the clutter, while both systems offer the option of tuning yourself, You Don't "Have" To, it's only one of what some consider to be a good option for themselves. With the Vipec, any competent tuner can tune it, wheather they have BMW/Siemens experience or not. With Bytetronik, any tuner with BMW/Siemens experience can tune it, or the Bytetronik team can do it remotely, similar to an RMW remote tune, just with more options as to how it's done. For more info on what the Bytetronik system offers you need to read these:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.com...0-r52-r53.html
https://www.northamericanmotoring.com...te-tuning.html
https://www.northamericanmotoring.com...0-r52-r53.html
https://www.northamericanmotoring.com...te-tuning.html
From what i have learned, your tuning decision is dependent on your driving habits (daily driver vs track), your modifications, your budget, and your willingness/ability to do your own tuning.
I have also learned that the same tune may yield different results to almost identical cars. Some people have great luck with a specific tune while others may have bad luck.
And the reason that some "canned" tunes work better than others has more to do with individual cars than anything else, all parts, even the same ones, react different in different cars, this is why people get different results with the same exact tune, JCW, Stock, RMW & Way, it's not the tunes, it's the tune in that "individual" application, this is why custom tuning is prefered, the tune is matched to how "your" parts are working with each other.
While this thread does discuss many tuning options available over the internet, it does not go into detail with the options available from your local Mini tuner.
So, I am asking for your opinions, testimonials, and recommendations regarding tuning. I am NOT asking which system is better. I would find it more valuable to hear what systems have worked for you and with what modifications. Feel free to share any dyno-charts
Also if you have any tuning recommendations for MY mini (mods listed in signature)
Feel free to add any information on tuning systems not listed here, as I only tackled a few.
PLEASE correct me if i am wrong anywhere in my thread as i am rather new to engine tuning. I am willing to edit this post given your information is valid/beneficial.
Thank you again NAM.
-JASON
Last edited by SOOPER_S; 11-10-2013 at 02:44 PM.
#2
11-09-2013, 09:34 PM
Rmw tune.
Call jan and he will explain everything. It really is your best option. There are many of us with 250whp to 350whp without any issues. The tune wont have to much timing causing overheating issues like ALL of the canned tunes. The jcw tune is meh.
There is the self tune method. But I've read so much about cars melting pistons.
Wildcards are paw motorsports in miami. And jb+ tunes.
I run rmw tune and parts. Could.not.be.happier.
Call jan and he will explain everything. It really is your best option. There are many of us with 250whp to 350whp without any issues. The tune wont have to much timing causing overheating issues like ALL of the canned tunes. The jcw tune is meh.
There is the self tune method. But I've read so much about cars melting pistons.
Wildcards are paw motorsports in miami. And jb+ tunes.
I run rmw tune and parts. Could.not.be.happier.
#3
11-10-2013, 07:51 AM
While you've done some research, some clarification is in order.
Uni-chip & all other piggyback systems are actually not a good option, they were basiclly popular early on when remote tuning options were far more limited than they are now, some of them worked, some didn't and even of the ones that worked, they worked on some cars and not on others. Plus the gains were marginal at best compared to the other tuning solutions, most who tried them & changed, have never went back. Best to actually disregard them entirely.
As far as Bytetronik & Vipec, I was affraid the message would get lost in the clutter, while both systems offer the option of tuning yourself, You Don't "Have" To, it's only one of what some consider to be a good option for themselves. With the Vipec, any competent tuner can tune it, wheather they have BMW/Siemens experience or not. With Bytetronik, any tuner with BMW/Siemens experience can tune it, or the Bytetronik team can do it remotely, similar to an RMW remote tune, just with more options as to how it's done. For more info on what the Bytetronik system offers you need to read these:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...0-r52-r53.html
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...te-tuning.html
And the reason that some "canned" tunes work better than others has more to do with individual cars than anything else, all parts, even the same ones, react different in different cars, this is why people get different results with the same exact tune, JCW, Stock, RMW & Way, it's not the tunes, it's the tune in that "individual" application, this is why custom tuning is prefered, the tune is matched to how "your" parts are working with each other.
Hope this helps to clarify things.
Uni-chip & all other piggyback systems are actually not a good option, they were basiclly popular early on when remote tuning options were far more limited than they are now, some of them worked, some didn't and even of the ones that worked, they worked on some cars and not on others. Plus the gains were marginal at best compared to the other tuning solutions, most who tried them & changed, have never went back. Best to actually disregard them entirely.
As far as Bytetronik & Vipec, I was affraid the message would get lost in the clutter, while both systems offer the option of tuning yourself, You Don't "Have" To, it's only one of what some consider to be a good option for themselves. With the Vipec, any competent tuner can tune it, wheather they have BMW/Siemens experience or not. With Bytetronik, any tuner with BMW/Siemens experience can tune it, or the Bytetronik team can do it remotely, similar to an RMW remote tune, just with more options as to how it's done. For more info on what the Bytetronik system offers you need to read these:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...0-r52-r53.html
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...te-tuning.html
And the reason that some "canned" tunes work better than others has more to do with individual cars than anything else, all parts, even the same ones, react different in different cars, this is why people get different results with the same exact tune, JCW, Stock, RMW & Way, it's not the tunes, it's the tune in that "individual" application, this is why custom tuning is prefered, the tune is matched to how "your" parts are working with each other.
Hope this helps to clarify things.
Last edited by BlwnAway; 11-10-2013 at 07:57 AM.
#4
11-10-2013, 08:37 AM
Thank you for the clarification. My intention was to start this thread as a baseline for tuning options and hopefully, with the help of the users here on NAM, let it grow into a one-stop solution for individuals who are confused and slightly overwhelmed (like i was) with the amount of tuning options available. There are many websites promising all kinds of gains and without the feedback from the actual buyers, it is hard to really find what works.
Here's my question. When you say "all other piggyback systems," could you be more specific? This information could be useful for people trying to avoid these.
Regarding the Bytetronik & ViPEC, after reading my post I realized it may have been misleading. Thank you for your clarification. May I add the information you provided to original thread? Like I said, I would really like to let this thread develop using the feedback and testimonials from the NAM community.
Last but not least, what are your personal experiences with any of these systems if any?
Thanks
-JASON
Here's my question. When you say "all other piggyback systems," could you be more specific? This information could be useful for people trying to avoid these.
Regarding the Bytetronik & ViPEC, after reading my post I realized it may have been misleading. Thank you for your clarification. May I add the information you provided to original thread? Like I said, I would really like to let this thread develop using the feedback and testimonials from the NAM community.
Last but not least, what are your personal experiences with any of these systems if any?
Thanks
-JASON
#5
11-10-2013, 09:17 AM
Piggyback, basiclly any tuninig module that plugs in with an "adjusting" file but does not change the actual settings of the ECU, the changes are basiclly something that are done, for lack of a better analagy, after the fact.
Unlike a flash tool like RMW, Way & others use that actually loads a completely new tune file into the ECU itself.
Unlike a flash tool like RMW, Way & others use that actually loads a completely new tune file into the ECU itself.
#6
11-10-2013, 11:24 AM
Just remember...
Piggyback = fail....old tec...was used when it was the only option...there are better safer options. A few folks happily ran them...some had zero issues, some fried computers, some no gains, some did great...some had the clips on the harness break (very common) where it litterly shares the plug-in on the ecu...leaving the car a nonrunner till uninstalled (or worse)...the things a tuner cold do on a unichip were limited...basicly feeding signals to the computer to trick it to change what it told the engine to do...the unichip make dumped support/production for the r53 when ecu tuning started...... Same for the 40 hp for $40 , etc chips... They simply change the resistance to one input (when they do anything) to try to trick the computer to make more power....
Just remember, a car must be running 100% to be tuned...any issues mask the issue...and means when the issue gets worse or fixed...the tune, which was compensating for some issue, will be suboptimum.....
A tune is a nice way to bring everything together.... Custom or canned..
In the "day" there were regular tune events...a tuner would fly in...spend a day, maybe 3 at a shop with a dyno..tuning cars...usually 1 hr each...typical costs were about $100 dyno time, and $350 for the time, and expertise of the person doing the tune...so $450 ish for a gen1 car....
Piggyback = fail....old tec...was used when it was the only option...there are better safer options. A few folks happily ran them...some had zero issues, some fried computers, some no gains, some did great...some had the clips on the harness break (very common) where it litterly shares the plug-in on the ecu...leaving the car a nonrunner till uninstalled (or worse)...the things a tuner cold do on a unichip were limited...basicly feeding signals to the computer to trick it to change what it told the engine to do...the unichip make dumped support/production for the r53 when ecu tuning started...... Same for the 40 hp for $40 , etc chips... They simply change the resistance to one input (when they do anything) to try to trick the computer to make more power....
Just remember, a car must be running 100% to be tuned...any issues mask the issue...and means when the issue gets worse or fixed...the tune, which was compensating for some issue, will be suboptimum.....
A tune is a nice way to bring everything together.... Custom or canned..
In the "day" there were regular tune events...a tuner would fly in...spend a day, maybe 3 at a shop with a dyno..tuning cars...usually 1 hr each...typical costs were about $100 dyno time, and $350 for the time, and expertise of the person doing the tune...so $450 ish for a gen1 car....
#7
11-10-2013, 11:37 AM
In the "day" there were regular tune events...a tuner would fly in...spend a day, maybe 3 at a shop with a dyno..tuning cars...usually 1 hr each...typical costs were about $100 dyno time, and $350 for the time, and expertise of the person doing the tune...so $450 ish for a gen1 car....
I'm getting close to where I want to be pre-tune, so I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.
Trending Topics
#8
11-10-2013, 01:12 PM
While you've done some research, some clarification is in order.
Uni-chip & all other piggyback systems are actually not a good option, they were basiclly popular early on when remote tuning options were far more limited than they are now, some of them worked, some didn't and even of the ones that worked, they worked on some cars and not on others. Plus the gains were marginal at best compared to the other tuning solutions, most who tried them & changed, have never went back. Best to actually disregard them entirely.
As far as Bytetronik & Vipec, I was affraid the message would get lost in the clutter, while both systems offer the option of tuning yourself, You Don't "Have" To, it's only one of what some consider to be a good option for themselves. With the Vipec, any competent tuner can tune it, wheather they have BMW/Siemens experience or not. With Bytetronik, any tuner with BMW/Siemens experience can tune it, or the Bytetronik team can do it remotely, similar to an RMW remote tune, just with more options as to how it's done. For more info on what the Bytetronik system offers you need to read these:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...0-r52-r53.html
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...te-tuning.html
And the reason that some "canned" tunes work better than others has more to do with individual cars than anything else, all parts, even the same ones, react different in different cars, this is why people get different results with the same exact tune, JCW, Stock, RMW & Way, it's not the tunes, it's the tune in that "individual" application, this is why custom tuning is prefered, the tune is matched to how "your" parts are working with each other.
Hope this helps to clarify things.
Uni-chip & all other piggyback systems are actually not a good option, they were basiclly popular early on when remote tuning options were far more limited than they are now, some of them worked, some didn't and even of the ones that worked, they worked on some cars and not on others. Plus the gains were marginal at best compared to the other tuning solutions, most who tried them & changed, have never went back. Best to actually disregard them entirely.
As far as Bytetronik & Vipec, I was affraid the message would get lost in the clutter, while both systems offer the option of tuning yourself, You Don't "Have" To, it's only one of what some consider to be a good option for themselves. With the Vipec, any competent tuner can tune it, wheather they have BMW/Siemens experience or not. With Bytetronik, any tuner with BMW/Siemens experience can tune it, or the Bytetronik team can do it remotely, similar to an RMW remote tune, just with more options as to how it's done. For more info on what the Bytetronik system offers you need to read these:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...0-r52-r53.html
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...te-tuning.html
And the reason that some "canned" tunes work better than others has more to do with individual cars than anything else, all parts, even the same ones, react different in different cars, this is why people get different results with the same exact tune, JCW, Stock, RMW & Way, it's not the tunes, it's the tune in that "individual" application, this is why custom tuning is prefered, the tune is matched to how "your" parts are working with each other.
Hope this helps to clarify things.
#9
11-10-2013, 02:47 PM
#10
11-10-2013, 02:51 PM
I as well would like to attend one of these tuning parties. It would be great to get my car on the dyno with an experienced and highly recommended tuner.
#12
11-10-2013, 04:02 PM
5th Gear
For the bytronic and vipec, saying "anybody can tune it" is like saying "anybody can design and build an airplane". Doesn't mean you really want to go flying in the plane your goofy neighbor built in his garage. They should still be tuned by a tuner. If you dont REALLY know what you're doing, DIY tunes are great ways to grenade your motor.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using NAMotoring
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using NAMotoring
#13
11-10-2013, 04:11 PM
For the bytronic and vipec, saying "anybody can tune it" is like saying "anybody can design and build an airplane". Doesn't mean you really want to go flying in the plane your goofy neighbor built in his garage. They should still be tuned by a tuner. If you dont REALLY know what you're doing, DIY tunes are great ways to grenade your motor.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using NAMotoring
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using NAMotoring
#14
12-04-2013, 11:49 PM
2nd Gear
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#15
12-05-2013, 04:51 AM
Florida Tuning Party
Sunshine MINIs has a tuning party scheduled February 2014. Appears to be a good opportunity to obtain a tune or attend and learn more. Quote from their website/forum:
Central Florida Tuning Party - RMW Tune w/ Jan & Maitland Im
Postby c0op3r » Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:46 pm
Revolution Motor Works & Maitland Importers
Dyno and Tuning Party
February 8th 2014 (Saturday)
We will be hosting a Dyno/Tuning Party in Longwood Florida. All Mini’s are welcome. Come enjoy Donuts & Coffee, Good Mini Talk, and a Dyno Chart and/or Tune.
Performing the tune, will be Jan of RMW(Tuner). You most likely already know him as THE highly acclaimed and top Mini tuner in the WORLD (no exaggeration). Ian Stewart of Maitland Importers will also be present. Ian is a very accomplished racer in both a Mini and a Honda S2000. Ian is also a Mini Specialty Shop Owner and an overall good guy!
We will be using a DynoJet roll on Dyno-meter. Dyno-meter is AWD capable.
Services Offered:
Custom Tune for R50/R52/R53 (1st Gen) Mini - $450*
Custom Tune for R55/R56/R57/R58/R59 (2nd Gen) Mini - $600*
Dyno Pull & Print Out ONLY $50
Location:
Real Street Performance
850 N US Highway 17 92
Longwood, FL 32750
Central Florida Tuning Party - RMW Tune w/ Jan & Maitland Im
Postby c0op3r » Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:46 pm
Revolution Motor Works & Maitland Importers
Dyno and Tuning Party
February 8th 2014 (Saturday)
We will be hosting a Dyno/Tuning Party in Longwood Florida. All Mini’s are welcome. Come enjoy Donuts & Coffee, Good Mini Talk, and a Dyno Chart and/or Tune.
Performing the tune, will be Jan of RMW(Tuner). You most likely already know him as THE highly acclaimed and top Mini tuner in the WORLD (no exaggeration). Ian Stewart of Maitland Importers will also be present. Ian is a very accomplished racer in both a Mini and a Honda S2000. Ian is also a Mini Specialty Shop Owner and an overall good guy!
We will be using a DynoJet roll on Dyno-meter. Dyno-meter is AWD capable.
Services Offered:
Custom Tune for R50/R52/R53 (1st Gen) Mini - $450*
Custom Tune for R55/R56/R57/R58/R59 (2nd Gen) Mini - $600*
Dyno Pull & Print Out ONLY $50
Location:
Real Street Performance
850 N US Highway 17 92
Longwood, FL 32750
#16
12-05-2013, 05:35 PM
Green Flash
thanx for the plug but I wanted to add the other part of the posting:
The Small Print:
· Please note that we only have space for 10 Mini’s to be tuned, so please reserve your spot.
· A $100 Non-Refundable deposit will be required to secure your spot. PayPal Accepted and Preferred.
*this price includes your Dyno Time, before & after print out. This is NOT a Single Pull; this is till your car is tuned as desired.
If you wish to sign up or have any questions or suggestions, please email me at: OrlandoTuneParty@gmail.com
thanx for the plug but I wanted to add the other part of the posting:
The Small Print:
· Please note that we only have space for 10 Mini’s to be tuned, so please reserve your spot.
· A $100 Non-Refundable deposit will be required to secure your spot. PayPal Accepted and Preferred.
*this price includes your Dyno Time, before & after print out. This is NOT a Single Pull; this is till your car is tuned as desired.
If you wish to sign up or have any questions or suggestions, please email me at: OrlandoTuneParty@gmail.com
#17
02-20-2014, 11:23 PM
1st Gear
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Another San Francisco area Mini here possibly interested in a tuning party. I have an 05 JCW with a 15% pulley. Not sure if my car is a good candidate for tuning or if I should just leave it and be happy with what I've got. I do wish I had a better throttle response and of course more power is always fun. My mechanic said getting a different cam was more for track as I would lose some of the lower down power band ( I think that is what he said ).
#19
02-24-2014, 10:11 AM
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#23
08-09-2014, 11:43 PM
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Another San Francisco area Mini here possibly interested in a tuning party. I have an 05 JCW with a 15% pulley. Not sure if my car is a good candidate for tuning or if I should just leave it and be happy with what I've got. I do wish I had a better throttle response and of course more power is always fun. My mechanic said getting a different cam was more for track as I would lose some of the lower down power band ( I think that is what he said ).
#24
08-09-2014, 11:44 PM
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#25
08-17-2014, 11:37 PM
